[lurkingforacure]

Has anyone taken GABA in the liposomal form? I found myself buying a bottle of this stuff today after the nutritional counselor told me the formulation did cross the BBB (as everyone here knows, plain GABA supplements do not). A quick look at wiki and liposomal delivery showed impressive results-apparently this delivery method is used to enhance absorption/bioavailability of rx drugs as well as some supplements. If you have taken GABA in a liposomal form, please share your experience.

Also, I was told one can get a urine test for neurotransmitters. This test originated in Germany and has been in the US for about 15 years. NONE of the neuros we have seen has mentioned it. We are thinking of getting one, just to see what it says. True, it will only measure levels that are being excreted in the urine, but they have levels of what non-PD people excrete so it does give one something against which to compare. Has anyone done one of these?

Thanks.

[paula_w]

Originally Posted by lurkingforacure

Has anyone taken GABA in the liposomal form? I found myself buying a bottle of this stuff today after the nutritional counselor told me the formulation did cross the BBB (as everyone here knows, plain GABA supplements do not). A quick look at wiki and liposomal delivery showed impressive results-apparently this delivery method is used to enhance absorption/bioavailability of rx drugs as well as some supplements. If you have taken GABA in a liposomal form, please share your experience.

Also, I was told one can get a urine test for neurotransmitters. This test originated in Germany and has been in the US for about 15 years. NONE of the neuros we have seen has mentioned it. We are thinking of getting one, just to see what it says. True, it will only measure levels that are being excreted in the urine, but they have levels of what non-PD people excrete so it does give one something against which to compare. Has anyone done one of these?

Thanks.

Hi lurking,

can you tell me exactly what you bought for gaba. i asked my neuro about the urine tests and he said 'what are you going to learn from it , it changes all the time.?" that doesn't mean he's correct tho.

thanks

[lurkingforacure]

Originally Posted by paula_w

Hi lurking,

can you tell me exactly what you bought for gaba. i asked my neuro about the urine tests and he said 'what are you going to learn from it , it changes all the time.?" that doesn't mean he's correct tho.

thanks

I don't care for the attitude of your neuro, but that's me. But to play devil's advocate, I would submit that what you might learn from it is what the levels of your neurotransmitters are IN RELATION TO EACH OTHER, something rarely, if ever, discussed. And, if you got such a test at different times, you could monitor what is going on....you would have a baseline, at a minimum, something we could all use.

The GABA I bought was $28.00 for a 120 mL bottle: the company is Neurogistics. The lable reads thus:

GABA +
Liposomal Delivery
PROFESSIONAL USE ONLY
Pharmaceutical Grade

1mL supplies 100mg of beta phenyl-gamma-aminobutyric acid (sp...hope it's right, the writing on that bottle is mighty small).

We'll see. We took 1mL this afternoon which is probably not enough to do anything at all...but we also bought L-tryptophan after reading Laura's post about sleep and the responses to it, and will take one capsule of that tonight before bed and see if it helps with the sleep issues.

If you try it, let us know how it works/doesn't work for you.

[GerryW]

I tried a bottle of PharmaGABA, also said to cross the BBB (that's blood-brain barrier, not the Better Business Bureau!) According to Thorne labs:

"The natural GABA in Thorne's PharmaGABA-100 is produced via a fermentation process that utilizes Lactobacillus hilgardii, the bacteria used to ferment vegetables in the preparation of the traditional Korean cabbage dish known as kimchi. Clinical studies show this natural form of GABA can increase the production of alpha-waves in the brain, creating a profound sense of physical relaxation while maintaining mental focus.* In contrast, the stress-related beta-waves in the brain are decreased.* In addition to changes in brain waves, natural PharmaGABA has been shown to produce relaxation, as evidenced by reduced pupil diameter, heart rate, and two natural markers of stress – salivary cortisol and chromogranin A.* In a head-to-head, double-blind trial of natural PharmaGABA versus synthetic GABA, synthetic GABA did not demonstrate these positive effects."

I did not notice any kind of effect.

[lurkingforacure]

Originally Posted by GerryW

I tried a bottle of PharmaGABA, also said to cross the BBB (that's blood-brain barrier, not the Better Business Bureau!) According to Thorne labs:

"The natural GABA in Thorne's PharmaGABA-100 is produced via a fermentation process that utilizes Lactobacillus hilgardii, the bacteria used to ferment vegetables in the preparation of the traditional Korean cabbage dish known as kimchi. Clinical studies show this natural form of GABA can increase the production of alpha-waves in the brain, creating a profound sense of physical relaxation while maintaining mental focus.* In contrast, the stress-related beta-waves in the brain are decreased.* In addition to changes in brain waves, natural PharmaGABA has been shown to produce relaxation, as evidenced by reduced pupil diameter, heart rate, and two natural markers of stress – salivary cortisol and chromogranin A.* In a head-to-head, double-blind trial of natural PharmaGABA versus synthetic GABA, synthetic GABA did not demonstrate these positive effects."

I did not notice any kind of effect.

Gerry, thanks for sharing this. But the lanquage quoted does not exactly claim the substance you took crosses the BBB...claiming something increases alpha waves in the brain is not the same as saying it actually crossed the BBB and made it over into the brain.

We'll see how this stuff I bought does. I've read some reports this afternoon that indicate people take massive doses of this stuff (like a gram!) for anxiety and social situations.....and even then, it helped some folks but not others.

[Conductor71]

Originally Posted by lurkingforacure

Also, I was told one can get a urine test for neurotransmitters. This test originated in Germany and has been in the US for about 15 years. NONE of the neuros we have seen has mentioned it. We are thinking of getting one, just to see what it says. True, it will only measure levels that are being excreted in the urine, but they have levels of what non-PD people excrete so it does give one something against which to compare. Has anyone done one of these?

Thanks.

Funny those neuros don't seem to mention much of anything that might empower us. To Paula's neuro...why do they even have the test in the first place if it can vary so much- that makes no sense.

To measure catecholamines in urine requires a 24 hour urine capture. MY GP cared enough about weird symptoms I was having to have my serotonin levels checked. They measure the metabolite. Surprisingly my level was slightly on the high side. I wonder if we can take that 24 hours and take that as a reliable baseline. Wouldn't we need to do a few times to see if levels change or to give us an average?

Lurking, are you guys going to do this minus levodopa? Can we get a true measure of dopamine while on dopaminergic meds?

What dosage of L-Tryptophan are you trying?

[lurkingforacure]

Originally Posted by Conductor71

Funny those neuros don't seem to mention much of anything that might empower us. To Paula's neuro...why do they even have the test in the first place if it can vary so much- that makes no sense.

To measure catecholamines in urine requires a 24 hour urine capture. MY GP cared enough about weird symptoms I was having to have my serotonin levels checked. They measure the metabolite. Surprisingly my level was slightly on the high side. I wonder if we can take that 24 hours and take that as a reliable baseline. Wouldn't we need to do a few times to see if levels change or to give us an average?

Lurking, are you guys going to do this minus levodopa? Can we get a true measure of dopamine while on dopaminergic meds?

What dosage of L-Tryptophan are you trying?

I'd love to try stuff without meds but we can't really do that. What we are doing is adding things to see what they do, and if they work (none have so far) we would try to reduce meds and see how we do.

We took l-tryptophan 100mg last night around 2am (after waking from a deep slumber, see below) but it didn't do much. The bottle says take 300mg but MrsD I noted takes 500mg! We are starting low and titrating up.

I have to say, the GABA really seems like it did something yesterday. Took 1mL in the afternoon and passed out like a log after dinner until midnight. Up for a few hours, then back to sleep after taking 100mg trytophan. Way too early to tell, and I think the dose is too low too, but we'll see. We took another 100mL after our morning meds today. And, just to throw a monkey in the works, we have our neuro appt. this morning! This is usually an anxious ordeal so I am curious to see how we do.

I'll keep everyone posted. I am really interested in the GABA stuff because of the GABA gene therapy group, Neurologix, and their work. Of course the neuro we used to see at a huge, prestigious teaching facility totally poo-pooed that work, but he is lock stock and barrel in the dopamine, whole dopamine, and nothing but dopamine camp.

We'll probably also add in theanine as well, need to look into that too.

[moondaughter]

Originally Posted by lurkingforacure

I'd love to try stuff without meds but we can't really do that. What we are doing is adding things to see what they do, and if they work (none have so far) we would try to reduce meds and see how we do.

We took l-tryptophan 100mg last night around 2am (after waking from a deep slumber, see below) but it didn't do much. The bottle says take 300mg but MrsD I noted takes 500mg! We are starting low and titrating up.

I have to say, the GABA really seems like it did something yesterday. Took 1mL in the afternoon and passed out like a log after dinner until midnight. Up for a few hours, then back to sleep after taking 100mg trytophan. Way too early to tell, and I think the dose is too low too, but we'll see. We took another 100mL after our morning meds today. And, just to throw a monkey in the works, we have our neuro appt. this morning! This is usually an anxious ordeal so I am curious to see how we do.

I'll keep everyone posted. I am really interested in the GABA stuff because of the GABA gene therapy group, Neurologix, and their work. Of course the neuro we used to see at a huge, prestigious teaching facility totally poo-pooed that work, but he is lock stock and barrel in the dopamine, whole dopamine, and nothing but dopamine camp.

We'll probably also add in theanine as well, need to look into that too.

Lurking would you mind sharing where your GABA source is? The only one i could find was $10 more...
Thanks
md

[lurkingforacure]

Originally Posted by moondaughter

Lurking would you mind sharing where your GABA source is? The only one i could find was $10 more...
Thanks
md

I pm'd you because you need an access code and I wasn't sure I could share that online!

[lurkingforacure]

Well, I was all happy about getting a NT test and then did further research...turns out, NTs are made all over the body, not just the brain, so a urine test for NT won't really tell you that much about the goings on in the brain...but if you want to know overall how many NT you are excreting, it could be helpful.

I also was a bit surprised to find out just how many sites there are out there promoting this test (and others, all for several hundred dollars...) and then of course the supplements to "balance" you out once the test results (of questionable reliability from some places) come back. I mention this because I can see how easy it would be to go down that expensive road, in the hopes of feeling better.

I just wanted to mention this in case anyone is considering getting a urine NT test. Do some research to be sure you know what it can and can't tell you.