Parkinson's Disease Tulip


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Old 02-22-2015, 03:21 PM #11
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Default caution for sure

I second the need for caution on DIY with regard this, because as I understand it, the focused ultrasound trial done on ET and I think currently going on for PD uses heat to permanently sever a nerve in the brain. Fooling around with this stuff at home may have disastrous, and permanent, unintended consequences.

I don't think any of us have the luxury of having a machine that can deliver precise amounts of heat to an exact area in the brain (nor, for that matter, do most of us have the knowledge to precisely where/how to target in the first place). We all know how much difference a fraction of a millimeter can make in DBS lead placement, I don't see how this would be any different...it would actually be worse, IMHO, because at least in DBS you can adjust the lead placement or remove it entirely: here, you could, well, I don't even want to think about it.

The focused ultrasound trial I mentioned was/is being done in Virginia. We were going to participate, but the fact that the severance was permanent scared us off. If you are interested in this line of work, you might want to contact the principal investigator for that trial and see how you can get involved.
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Old 02-22-2015, 04:47 PM #12
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Default ECT, electroconvulsive therapy

I've posted before one ect. There are enough medical papers out there stating that ect can be very beneficial in improving physical and mental symptoms for some PD patients and those also having maintenance ect every few months. Has anyone had or considered ect for PD?
My wife is in drastic need of something more effective than tweaking her meds. Her neurologist is totally against ect as are most neuro's. We are in the process of looking for assisted living for her, which she may not qualify for, because it is very difficult to care for her now. To move, she has to take 1200 mg + of sinemet and this is causing her to have severe hallucinations. I am trying to have her see a psychiatrist who has treated PD with ect.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21605615
Abstract

PURPOSE:

Psychotic symptoms in Parkinson's disease (PD) are relatively common and, in addition to creating a disturbance in patients' daily lives, have consistently been shown to be associated with poor outcome. The use of anti-PD medications has been the most widely identified risk factor for PD psychosis (PDP). However, the pathophysiology of PDP remains unclear. Although the efficacy of electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) for PD had been pointed out, only one study has demonstrated the effectiveness of ECT on both psychotic symptoms and motor symptoms. The aim of this study was to examine the acute effectiveness of ECT on PD and to identify the brain areas associated with PDP.
METHODS:

The study was conducted at Juntendo University Hospital in Tokyo. Eight patients with L-DOPA- or dopamine (DA) agonist-induced PDP, who were resistant to quetiapine treatment, were enrolled. Severity of PD was evaluated using the Hoehn and Yahr stage. Psychotic symptoms were evaluated using multiple measures from the Scale for the Assessment of Positive Symptoms (SAPS). Technetium-99m ethyl cysteinate dimer single photon emission computed tomography (99mTc ECD SPECT) was used to assess regional cerebral blood flow (rCBF) before and after a course of ECT. A voxel-by-voxel group analysis was performed using Statistical Parametric Mapping (SPM5).
RESULTS:

Our study clearly demonstrated that PDP was significantly less severe after ECT than before ECT, as indicated by change in mean SAPS total domain score (t=7.2, P=0.0002). Furthermore, the patients showed significant improvement in Hoehn and Yahr stage after ECT (t=11.7, P<0.0001). A further notable observation was significant increase in rCBF in the right middle frontal gyrus after ECT.
CONCLUSION:

We conclude that a course of ECT produced notable improvements not only in PDP but also in the severity of PD. The findings of change in rCBF suggest implications for dysfunction in the middle frontal region for patients with PDP.
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Old 02-22-2015, 07:14 PM #13
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Default can't get it yet

We too have read the promising papers on ect and cannot find anyone who will do this for PD. IF you have a dx of depression AND your doc will sign off saying it is not being adequately treated with drugs, you can get ect for depression, but not anything else.

I am really sorry for you and your wife, and hope you can find some relief soon. Could you get this in Canada or Mexico, assuming your wife could travel?
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Old 02-23-2015, 09:14 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi33 View Post
Hi Complex_CAS

I think the price of these IR devices is high but wonder if a "simple" IR flashlight-type device would work in a similar matter. Has anyone used such a device?

I would be very cautious about the self-treatment that you are considering.

IR radiation is, in effect, heat - it is the warm sensation that you experience when you sit in front of a fire.

The substantia nigra (the part of the brain which is linked to PD) is deep in the brain. Any self-treatment with an IR device which delivers doses of IR radiation to the substantia nigra will deliver much higher doses to parts of the brain which are closer to the surface. That heat could have bad health outcomes.

I suggest that you talk with a clinical health professional before trying this self-treatment.
Thanks again for your response. I do want to be very clear that asking about a device or what is being discussed in the domain of therapy is not the same as making a statement about considering a self-treatment option. I do however appreciate how one could draw that link but this is not the case nor the reason for my original post. Again -- thanks for the response.
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Old 02-23-2015, 09:18 AM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurkingforacure View Post
I second the need for caution on DIY with regard this, because as I understand it, the focused ultrasound trial done on ET and I think currently going on for PD uses heat to permanently sever a nerve in the brain. Fooling around with this stuff at home may have disastrous, and permanent, unintended consequences.

I don't think any of us have the luxury of having a machine that can deliver precise amounts of heat to an exact area in the brain (nor, for that matter, do most of us have the knowledge to precisely where/how to target in the first place). We all know how much difference a fraction of a millimeter can make in DBS lead placement, I don't see how this would be any different...it would actually be worse, IMHO, because at least in DBS you can adjust the lead placement or remove it entirely: here, you could, well, I don't even want to think about it.

The focused ultrasound trial I mentioned was/is being done in Virginia. We were going to participate, but the fact that the severance was permanent scared us off. If you are interested in this line of work, you might want to contact the principal investigator for that trial and see how you can get involved.
Thanks for the response. I too second that if someone was trying to do a self-treatment that it would be foolhardy. When I posted the question I noted that it was refreshing to read the cautionary postings. I did not/nor intend to self treat but am very interested in the discussions and the tips to find out what else in out there in the literature. Again - the tips about focused ultrasound is interesting as well. If you have a link to this study that would be interesting to read. Thanks.
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Old 02-23-2015, 10:55 AM #16
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Default at UVA

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Originally Posted by Complex_CAS View Post
Thanks for the response. I too second that if someone was trying to do a self-treatment that it would be foolhardy. When I posted the question I noted that it was refreshing to read the cautionary postings. I did not/nor intend to self treat but am very interested in the discussions and the tips to find out what else in out there in the literature. Again - the tips about focused ultrasound is interesting as well. If you have a link to this study that would be interesting to read. Thanks.
Here is the list of trials at UVA, I am pretty sure they are doing one for PD since we have communicated with them about that, but perhaps they haven't gotten going on it yet. Dr. Elias has a lot of publicity for his work with this.

Good luck and keep us all posted
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Old 02-23-2015, 03:47 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurkingforacure View Post
Here is the list of trials at UVA, I am pretty sure they are doing one for PD since we have communicated with them about that, but perhaps they haven't gotten going on it yet. Dr. Elias has a lot of publicity for his work with this.

Good luck and keep us all posted
Neurostar is a magnetic device which has apparently been approved by the FDA for depression. Around 500 docs now use the Neurostar device in the USA. A similar device is approved for Parkinson's treatment in Europe (Brainsway).

www.brainsway.com/parkinson’s-disease

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-b...ess-1000932876

http://neurostar.com/neurostar-tms-d...ion-treatment/

Last edited by zanpar321; 02-23-2015 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 02-24-2015, 11:28 AM #18
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Originally Posted by zanpar321 View Post
Neurostar is a magnetic device which has apparently been approved by the FDA for depression. Around 500 docs now use the Neurostar device in the USA. A similar device is approved for Parkinson's treatment in Europe (Brainsway).

www.brainsway.com/parkinson’s-disease

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-b...ess-1000932876

http://neurostar.com/neurostar-tms-d...ion-treatment/
Here's an interesting video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7RCb2kQW_s
I wonder how typical this result is and how long it lasts.
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Old 02-24-2015, 12:14 PM #19
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Originally Posted by GerryW View Post
Here's an interesting video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7RCb2kQW_s
I wonder how typical this result is and how long it lasts.
There apparently are several clinics in the USA that are using the Brainsway device or Neurostar device off label for Parkinson's. It's expensive though and as of 2015 it's not approved for Parkinson's here so insurance doesn't cover it. If it is so successful for depression I'm thinking it should be quite effective for Parkinson's but only time will tell. Sure is exciting though! Seems like a double blind study would be quite easy to complete!
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Old 02-25-2015, 05:01 PM #20
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Default self care/responsibility advocate

just my two cents regarding self-treatment. In homeopathy school we studied with great interest therapeutic effects vs. suppression or other ill effects from treatment. When working with subtle frequencies ''resonance to the individual is an exacting process but not impossible. In homeopathic treatment where people can get into trouble is taking repeated doses of the wrong remedy over a period of time-obviously if the treatment isn't helping its not the right one but the patient needs to be vigilant and pay attention totheir response-an exercise in self awareness and responsibility....heavens knows if more people did this our health care system would be much better

. I don't know if this would also apply to IR light treatment but it indeed may be important to apply a resonant light frequency...from what I understand this can be assessed. I will be getting treatment with Randy Eady in April so anyone wishing to know how that goes feel free to PM me -he also works with a Biophoton device.

Personally I prefer do-it-myself treatments with some guidance.......I was able to abstain from taking LD for 16 years ...I refuse agonists of any kind and I take between 300-500mg LD total per day now (prescribed by a naturopath) 6 years into the med along with fava pod juice and massage etc etc etc..and relatively speaking function pretty well and am a caregiver for my husband who suffered debilitating stroke over ten years ago. looking at what neuro scrips are doing to others I think my chances are better with assistance of complimentary care givers and my own research - granted my sx were very early onset and slow to progress. hope this helps MD
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