MAny years ago, I worked for a children's psychiatic hospital on a unit for autistic and schitzophrenic children - these were severly troubled children and
their diagnoses were often unclear - we just didn't know the dffference often, probably because the diagnostic criteria were still unclear and in flux. Since then, it does seem to me that we have expanded the diagnosis of autism, taking in more children....

The things I remember most about that experience (and we are talking 35 plus years ago) was the frustration of the children (yes, I was bitten more than once but not once by a child deemed to be "schitzophrenic") and the heartbreak of the parents - expecially when they held themselves responsible for theier child's condition. At that time, schitzophrenia was attributed to poor mothering while autism was generally seen as a neurological disorder with no known cause or treatment...(although we were trying experimental ways to enhance communication)

Don't ask me how this related to Parkinson's, just a trip down memory lane awaked by my fury that any researcher would falsify research results for personal prestige, leading families and other researchers down a false trail...

sasha,


see this post i think there's some in the beginning of the thread too but in particular the last post by h shields.


http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread143644-3.html

oh i was talking about autism linked to pd and you are talking about vaccines. they are both in the thread . the doctor says he has lost everything, his job, his country, and that he believes his patients. but even "good" doctors know you can't rely on just numbers, so they fudge them.

you have to listen to the patients too - so how bad is this guy? this a octor who did not rely on the numbers and treated the patients like real people. did he stick his neck out or was it fraud?

it is a tough one. without vaccines we are going to have children dying en masse with the illnesses but do they have to combine them?

my kids are grown and my grandson had his vaccinations but my daughter won't get him the swine flu shot.

I'm sorry - in an ambivalent sort of way - to hear the dr has lost everything - in the meanwhile, children have lost their lives because their parents were so afraid to vaccinate. I don't think it is ever right to fudge research numbers -maybe find a way to run the numbers so the results are "inconclusive" and "require further investigation." There are plenty of kinds of studies you can do with interviews and other "soft" data without using just numbers or resorting to cheating. If researchers resort to cheating, it wipes out any possibility of learning anythng from science, because we'll never know what is "true" and what isn't "scientifically" - we would have to go to some other standard of truth - like beauty, or creativity, or because the Epic of Gilgamesh (sp?) said so...I like the flat earth theory myself!

I don't mean to be abrasive about this - please no one take offense!

And i know that many studies have had a little extra data manipulation to support someones favorite hypothesis - that's why we don't get too excited about isolated results. But I don't want to see [parents blame themsleves for autism or kids die of whooping cough or polio because some doc listened to his patients and changed the numbers to conform with their ideas.

In Haiti, they've lynched some Voodoo practitioners because people thought they had caused the cholera outbreak. Some ways of deciding whats "true" just beat others....

Thanks for the space to rant in, That felt good. I think PD causes ranting.

Sasha

http://www.naturalnews.com/031117_BM...Wakefield.html

This is the latest salvo. It seems that BMJ has been sitting on independent work that backs Wakefield. Something stinks

Too many vaccines, too close together, given way too young, usually in multi-dose shots (meaning, several different pathogens at once). What person/child has ever encountered measles, mumps, and rubella all at the same time in a natural setting? Same thing with the DPT vaccine, all given at once, but who has ever gotten exposed to all three of these at one time in a natural setting? The infant/toddler body, so tiny and vulnerable, simply cannot handle all of these pathogens, albeit "inactivated", that are injected into the body over such a short period of time.

Most cautious parents are not radically anti-vaccine: they simply are very, very concerned about the ever-growing list of multi-vaccines pharma pushes on tiny people. When pharma is recommending that all BOYS get the cervical cancer vaccine made for GIRLS, well, Rick is right, it's a big fat stinky-doo. There is far greater concern for $$$ than health and safety of people...but hey, that seems to sort of be the modus operandi of pharma, be it vaccine, drugs for chronic disease, whatever. Doesn't mean we have to like it, and it damn sure doesn't mean we have to accept it, regardless of what the CDC or the doc (who often gets nice "bonuses" for selling vaccines and scripting meds) "recommends".

I certainly think fewer vaccines are in order - seems like a safe compromise until we have more evidence. In the meanwhile, I still question Wakefield's research:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Autism/...2630566&page=3

Rev, you are right that something is wrong, I'm sure of it! It's all too strange how this information just suddenly appears - and on an alternative health site, at that. (I'm sure it's elsewhere, too, but the timing is too perfect)

I wish the parents would redirect their energy toward pressuring the CDC to do what is really needed...research to see how a vaccine could trip an underlying mitochondrial disorder and result in autism in an otherwise perfectly healthy 18 month old little girl. At this point, it is not about epidemiology; people can argue that for years. How does it help anyone?

The CDC admits that a vaccine resulted in autism for Hannah Poling and in 2008 her family received over a million in damages. I believe they have now established a Hannah Poling fund where parents can call to report adverse vaccine reactions. This seems to me they also acknowledge a link; I also think this is pretty much all they can do. If they termed it as "Vaccine caused autism" or any such thing there would be panic; it's bad enough that overly cautious parents are endangering others already to the point where we had endemics in several countries in 2009. In S. Africa a vaccine backlash resulted in the deaths of over 900 children. Imagine how those parents who withheld a vaccine felt then. This was over what every one sees as benign: the measles. Here in the states, doctors are reporting higher numbers or pertussis or whooping cough. Scary to think that polio might be right around the corner.

Family wins 1.5 million in autism-vaccine payout.

It is horrible that medicine to prevent or treat disease can actually cause it as well, but when you intervene with nature or the divine and that which we don't fully comprehend, yet seek to control, well it's a toss up.

Let's not forget that the alternative to a vaccine potentially causing brain damage is infinitely more viral and bacterial infection...also harming the brain. In children, now in addition to Autism, there are PANDAS (Pediatric Auto Immune Neuropsychiatric Disorders Associated with Strep). Discovered as being quite prevalent in the 1990's. A child has step throat and then an auto immune reaction that won't turn off (sound familiar?) because there is low level of infection still there. It results in sudden onset of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and movement disorder- the site in the brain? None other than the basal ganglia! It is reversible if caught early on and treated with antibiotics.

Researchers are now starting to question whether adult disease onset like sporadic PD or MS are not latent or dormant reactions much like this but only years later? Anything is possible and given they are finding that our disorder manifests sometimes over two decades before the appearance of motor symptoms...well that make me 10 years old when PD took hold. Is PD at least the YO variety really a childhood condition that has never treated become disease? Something to ponder....

immune system plasticity
I continue to think information about the plasticity of T cells is an important part of the puzzle:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...lls#post494294

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...ne-system.html
Can we reprogram the immune system?
28 January 2009 by Linda Geddes


http://www.newscientist.com/article/...ne-system.html

summary of 2 separate studies concerning immune cells
which has direct implication for the use of vaccines (at least in vitro), and why they
may result in dire effects.

immune system more flexible than previously
thought? T-helper (Th) cells "thought to be of 2
types: Th1 which sent viruses and bacteria from host cells and Th2
cells that fought parasites and bacteria in blood in other body
fluids and also fought allergens." 2 new classes of cells were
discovered: "regulatory T cells (T-regs) which attenuate the immune
system response and Th17 cells that trigger inflammation and
autoimmunity. Problem with this categorization was discovered when
the T-regs behaved like Th1 cells when the T-regs cells were exposed
to the molecules that normally result in a Th response. "(Immunity,
COI:10:1016/j.immuni.2008.12.009)...

Whoops--

In addition, study by Casey Weaver at Univ of Alabama showed
that "Th17 cells can also morph into Th1-like cells" under certain
conditions. Article concludes that "if Th1 cells are equally flexible
vaccines may not work as they are intended, says Christopher Wilson
of the Univ of Washington State in Seattle. For instance, if a
vaccine against a virus triggers a Th1 response but the Th1 cells
change their identity for some reason, 'the pathogen might yet
subvert the protection induced by the vaccine,he says"...

Occurs to me, if this happens in other than a petri dish, vaccines may result in immune responses in which
the correct immune cell morphs into the wrong cell--causing
inflammation or autoimmunity when none was wanted.......author cites
the safety study in which 6 individuals in Northwick park hosp in
london in March, 06, were given a drug that was to activate T-reg
cells, but instead they were made seriously ill. author notes that "there may be serious implications for immunotherapy trials in which T-regs are injected into people with autoimmune disease to dampen their immune response"...Perhaps the T-regs
morphed into Th17 causing an autoimmune response????

AND
breaching the blood brain barrier



FYI--
http://www.the-scientist.com/blog/display/55517/
Posted by Edyta Zielinska
Researchers have identified a novel mechanism by which immune cells wiggle their way across the blood-brain barrier in diseases such as multiple sclerosis (MS). A type of T-cell involved in autoimmune disease leads the way, entering the brain and perhaps priming the blood-brain barrier's membrane to attract other immune cells -- opening the door for those cells to do their inflammatory damage, according to a study published online yesterday (Mar 22) in Nature Immunology.