Thanks SC - getting down to 10/day is great .

One thing which I have noticed is that, apart from the nicotine effect, part of the attraction is to have something which I can fiddle with using my fingers.

I visited a local dollar shop and invested in a small and soft koala toy which I can fiddle with - this seems to be helping.

A friend of mine is quitting so I bought her one of those silly mini fidget spinner things....it helps her to take her mind off the smokes.

But, my safety is at risk now.......I can't help but poke fun at her as she spins that damn thing all the time.

2284 days sober.

Getting cold here...I enjoy the cool mornings and warm days but the ole legs do NOT like anything below freezing. I may have to consider a relocation to Hawaii....

I'm doing an ultimate attempt to help my wife get off cigarettes. Not because I want to manage her life or anything like that, but because I want her to live long, and I know how bad smoking for women in their 50ties can be. (yeah yeah, not that it's better for anyone else, but you know what I mean)

I had tried before. Oh, I had tried. As I told you earlier, I got into vaping, and managed to go from 70 cigs a day to zero, now almost 1400 days ago. My wife smoked a lot less, maybe 15 a day. She could also easily not smoke for a few hours, I'd go nuts after 1 hour without my fix. So, my addiction was clearly much bigger than hers.

Bzzzt.

I got "free" in 2 weeks. When I had shown her how it worked for me (she was truly baffled), I spent massive amounts of time and money to find the right setup for her. I bought small ones, "cigalikes", bigger ones, fancy ones, arty ones. Ones that work 2 days without recharging. Tried different liquids. Tobacco, menthol, chocolate, think of a food and it exists in liquid form. I learned how to make the liquids myself, became an expert in the whole thing, read all the studies. I got into the whole technology, built my own devices, learned about the electronics, the most excruciating nerdy details of what it is, how it works.

She liked vaping, but could not get rid of those last 3 to 4 cigs. I tried higher dose nicotine. Better high quality pharma grade nicotine. I tried different taste combos. Liquids that perfectly mimic tobacco. Liquids that are totally different (there are thousands and thousands of choices). Coached her. Explained the stats. (BTW, latest research estimates that the risk of vaping giving you cancer is at least 50,000 times smaller than with smoking.) Again, not selling you anything, just not vaping or smoking is the best, no doubt, no discussion. But *if* you have to choose...

Anyway. Tried adding things called Whole Tobacco Alkaloids (other substances that are suspected to enhance the addictive qualities of nicotine. We now know tobacco companies add a lot of things that make it more addictive, and we know which ones). Didn't work. Something was still missing.

She hated the taste of the real cigs by now. The liquids I came up with tasted so much better. No coughing. No nasty after-taste. No shortness of breath. No stinking clothes. No film on everything from computer screens to walls. She *loves* the taste of my best recipe. She uses the device all the time. I maintain and clean it for her. It costs her nothing. And yet, those last 3 to 4 cigs. Which became 5 or more again... or 7... she got frustrated that I had done it and she couldn't.

It is a weird addiction alright. It's not just the nicotine, we know that now. (in fact, most vapers voluntarily taper down nic levels, some even end up with zero nic liquids). It's not just the fiddling. It's not just the hand-to-mouth routine. It's not just the warm air. It's not just the tickling of the throat. All those are present with vaping, and yet, it doesn't work for everyone. I do have a theory of why that is, but it would take us way too far and I can already see Mrs. D. raising her eyebrows.

This week I have concocted a range of liquids with different strengths, that she can switch, mix, match, depending on how she feels. I spend hours and hours on them, even did an all-nighter, my office looked like a meth lab. I bought her a new device that is very sleek, you almost don't see it, smaller than a pen, dead easy to operate, charge it by sticking it into her laptop's USB port. Will try to motivate her again with all this. Because I KNOW she really wants to quit, and is scared she will never succeed.

I will not rest until she can put out that last ritual cigarette, and feel good about it.

That is great Wide-O.

If you want to, please pass on my best wishes and encouragement to your wife.

I'm almost a year sober....I never thought I'd say that.

I'm very thankful neuropathy was something that arrived at the end of my drinking, because it seems to be the case that recovery takes less time. Luckily(?) complications due to being an alcoholic almost killed me, and precipitated becoming sober before I inflicted even more damage on my nerves.

I wonder sometimes if I had that near death experience to stop me from drinking. Like something divine. Because I don't believe I would have done otherwise. And 6 months more drinking would have literally cost me everything.

Very interesting to read about people's triggers...because it all applies to me. My neuropathy provoked by a few things for sure, such as sugar, caffeine and pain killers. And potentially...having read the last 10 pages of this forum...salt. I hadn't considered salt until checking back here.

My neuropathy developed into pain only. Feeling and movement came back in full after about 3 months. If I eat like a saint meaning little sugar (and I guess salt too), have little stress and exercise regularly, my symptoms essentially go.

More than 5 cups of tea in a day, and a box of Lindt chocolate...I get some tingles on an evening and burns when I lay down.

My aim of this post was to let you know I'm not off the wagon! To reassert that my experience is diet is HUGE when it comes to Nueuropathy, and to ask if anybody has experienced significant worsening when laid horizontal?

I can have 0 pain all day, and complete movement. Lay down and I get tingling then burning. Luckily I can actually sleep through it now...and weirdly, it's ok in the morning. I've thought about seeing a specialist but currently I'm fine, and I do improve every 3 months.

However, I sense my improvement has reached a limit, or a slowing phase. And I do worry that maybe I'll suffer from degradation as I get older. Does anybody have any info relating to ageing and worsening of neuroparthy?

I'm 29...so this could be a tough ride in later years.

Any tips on dealing with regrets? Thoughts, and bad thoughts, keep creeping in from time.

My most recent relationship...which I've referred to here a couple of times recently broke down, and I've actually started to think back to the relationships I had whilst an alcoholic.

I didn't do anything overtly bad, no physical abuse etc,...but I basically wasn't me, and definitely wasn't very nice. I'd like to be able to apologise to them, but unfortunately I couldn't imagine them speaking to me again. I'm going to wait until I've fully rehabilitated myself, maybe in 5-6 months, and reach out then just to explain what was going on in my life at the time.

It's been nice to check back and see how people are doing, and I really hope things look up for you Second Chances.

Regarding supplements...i have taken a month break from everything except a B complex, and Tumeric. I was taking 12-16 tablets per day for 10 months, and decided a break may be helpful. I really do feel like the massive supplementation programme I was on helped, and I'll be back to it soon.

I'm very happy with your post 10d, awesome work there.

There's a lot that resonates with me, and I will reply in full in a few days. Am off for a small surgery in a couple of hours, so time & attention aren't ideal, but I promise to get back to you.

Again, great work, and as you know, we know how big a deal it really is, in this little corner of the internet.

Promise to check back in, OK?

That is excellent 10d.

As far as your negative thoughts are concerned, I sometimes get them as well.

I have found that using a combination of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and mindfulness methods help me.

I was taught them by my clinical psychologist (I am in remission from clinical depression as well as alcohol abuse) - maybe something similar might work for you?

Wide-O, I hope that all goes well with your surgery.

10Decisions, congrats on your sobriety. Overall you are doing amazing well and while further progress may be slow, it sounds like you caught your neuropathy early and can likely expect further improvement.

Yes, it is the horizontal that brings on the burning in my lower extremities. I wonder if that is the position or that it is the end of the day that brings it on.

As to regrets I have many but I try not to let head to go there. When it does I tell myself I did the best I could under my circumstances and "It takes what it takes" and had to be on my knees praying for death and close to suicide til I realized I had to make changes. I have ruined my good looks and essentially made myself a cripple and ruined my excellent health but I can't dwell there and can only try to use this remorse to vow NEVER to go back there again.

Should you want to make amends I would recommend via email or letter in case it is not well received and also you can carefully choose your words, but if your past haunts you then apologies and explanations can be very cleansing for all. I have been hurt by many these last several years and I would love to get their amends so I could forgive and forget.
I use to tell myself that I am only hurting myself but in hindsight I now realize I hurt my family as I am not who and what I was and therefore I have wronged them as well. In failing health I realize that they may feel the need to care for me and that was never my intention. Unfortunately I can never disclose my alcoholism and that will need remain my dirty little secret.

Best wishes to all.

Said it before, but it bears (bares?... damn, this is one I'll never learn no matter how long I'll try to master English) repeating: awesome work.

I'm on the other side of that spectrum but I fully understand what you are saying. My liver must have been fighting sooooo hard, as did the rest of my body, because I still functioned. I could pretend to be a normal human being, work, go out... the neuropathy started a full 2 years before I took the plunge. It was a big part of the decision, but in the end, not the "clincher". That's something that happens in the brain (or not ). It got so bad that it probably helped me stay sober, but enough about me.


Personally I'm not a religious person, but no matter how you call it, something happens, and it calls out your name... time to shape up or die. Like you, I believe I would have been dead now if I had drank for another year.

It's good to try them all, to give it time, to see if you see a pattern. It seems to be highly personal, our bodies all have different strengths and vulnerabilities. I also feel that the process of trying, of doing something in itself helps. Not giving up hope, try this, try that. For me, sugar is a big one, stress the other. Smoking, salt, coffee, was not. Best we can do is try to find out what helps us. And be patient. I'm not saying that as a cop-out: nerves take time to heal, some won't heal, pathways will adapt, our brain will get used to certain inputs (or lack of them...). It's not a cold, it's a complicated condition that affects many parts of our bodies (and mind...)

Sounds pretty good to me!

Confirms the above. But you'll still do that from time to time, am I right? . And pay the price, and that's OK. We need to live a little too, sometimes give our PN the finger for a bit.

In my case: no. Standing hurts most. Horizontal is OK, but sometimes induces cramps in my toes. Painful ones, my toe that completely bends into a wrong shape. Need to stand up for a minute, and it goes away.

I also sleep (in normal circumstances) like a baby. My PN has never ever kept me awake - apart from those cramps, usually when I have done hard labor in the day or days before. Like I don't use my toes correctly because I don't feel them, and the muscles don't get the correct guidance.

Make sure you mention this next time you go a doc. I know that it may be important, it may be connected to something else. When I had to fill out my questionnaire pre-op, there were quite a few questions that went "and what about when you lay down, do you feel xyz?" Could be totally unrelated, or a small piece of the puzzle.

If you stay sober? My guess is it will not get worse. It may even slowly heal a bit more. You will get older like the rest of us, but I personally don't think the PN part will get worse. Mrs. D. may be a better judge on this.

I have many. But I will not let them overwhelm me. I did stuff, paid a price. I'm still better off than so many others.

Give it time. I happen to have received an earful recently (richly deserved )... basically, even if we think we did OK, we didn't. I understand that now. I'm not very well versed in the Big Book stuff; try to make up, but leave alone if it hurts them more. Don't explain. Apologize. If he or she asks for more later on, you can talk about it, but never use it as an excuse. You hurt them, and you are sorry. Even if they never ever want to see you again, they will appreciate that you said sorry without expecting anything in return.

If you don't mind a personal anecdote: one day I wrote a message to a friend that was way way way over the line. It doesn't even matter that she kinda deserved it, but my reaction was totally over the top. I was hurt, I lashed out, and was rude as hell. Think of the worst swear words you know. Now double that. That was my message.

My best buddy, who also knows this person, knew what had happened. He didn't comment for a long while, but one day, he said: "dude: you need to apologize. I know why you were angry, I know your heart was in the right place. But you were a rude 4sshole". He said it very kindly, but he meant it. I had long left the online community where this happened, but I heard him. I logged back on, and wrote a totaly sincere apology. I wrote that I didn't expect her to forgive me. I wouldn't bother her further, but just wanted her to know I was sorry, genuinely sorry, that I was out of line. That there were no excuses for what I said. None. End off. No need to reply. Logged off, never talked about it again to my buddy (but he knew I had sent the message), never gone back there.

Two years later, this lady welcomed me back with open arms into that community. It brought me to tears, it made me feel very humble. We never talked about it again, and made jokes, just like we had done all those years before.

This second part may or may not happen to you. I certainly didn't expect it!

Way too many words again, sorry, I'm in babble mode. Still, I hope it somewhat answers your question.

Good point.

And your life will get better again. It may not seem that way now, but it will. You will find pride in what you are doing now: your darn hardest best to make it better. Do you realize how strong that makes you?

You are not "a cripple". You are way more, so much more, a human, with still a lot of opportunities to make something of your life. To do things you love to do, or find new ones. Yes, your body may not be 100% again. And that is rough and painful. But you are not defined by the things that aren't OK. You will find a way, just keep believing in yourself, be kind to yourself.

And never forget: we are here for you, this silly little place on that huge internet where we know what the other is saying or going through, as we can exchange many of the T-shirts.

Finally, I'm very happy. My procedure went beyond expectations. I babbled enough, so I'll keep this short: it's fixed, the staff were angels, the pain much less than expected.

Is it wrong to give flowers to a surgeon when you go back for routine control? I'll find out soon enough.