Gerry, its an IN HOUSE 3 months residential program. Highly recommended and really difficult to get into, reportedly one of the very best with high success and very low recidivist with a planned targeted approach and support should the patient lapse. They also have the option of going to a sober living venue for another 8 weeks post the inhouse residential. We are all distraught. The $38'per week is for incidentals contributing towards regular weekly outings. The rest is covered by the NHS. I've emailed SIL but don't hold much hope. DB will try and phone her tonight if he's up to it.

I'm so sorry about your cousin. Alcohol is not anyone's friend but because it's legal it slips under the radar particularly while the world is focussing and understandably so on this ice and synthetic drug epidemic.

Pamela, I hope that you and DB can convince your S-I-L to accept what she has been offered.

This is not about me but this is my story.

About 10 years ago I spent a month in a psychiatric hospital, taking the first steps towards dealing with my alcohol abuse and clinical depression. This was followed up with weekly group therapy for about 18 months. These were positive and life-changing experiences for me.

I have private medical insurance (long story related to the Australian tax system) so this cost me about $400 in total.

I think that your S-I-L is very fortunate to have what the NHS has offered her.

Feel free to use my story in talking with your S-I-L if you think that might help.

PamelaJune, as they say in the rooms, "It takes what it takes". SIL has not reached her bottom yet. I am sorry and I know it is a very helpless feeling for those who love her.

Agreed. I transport "addicts" to rehab quite often, and from my experience the 90 day programs are NOT long enough. The in-house 6 month programs with another 6 months in transitional (monitored) living with work \ volunteering as a mandatory part ARE the ones that tend to work better. I drive 3 hours to NC to deliver those that have hit rock bottom and truly want to get better.

I have been to rehab (a 30 day program in 2009) and I drank the day I got out (that morning actually) and I had no remorse.

Over here on the right coast of the USA things may be different, but a one year program is what it seems to take to get the brain rewired to a life without a substance.

People need a purpose and sometimes it takes a LONG time for them to find it....

Seems something happened last Sunday but we don't yet know what, can't get any answers. All we know is Rehab looks to have been cancelled. I know everyone's bottom is different, I can't think of how it could get any worse but it seems it must.

It's so sad..

Unfortunately, even when in the hospital and his kidneys were shutting down; my cousin remained optimistic talking with his parents about the future....He just didn't get it........and never did.


Gerry

I'm so sorry Gerry, you must be proud of what your daughter has achieved.

Good news, Rehab is happening, bags are packed and they coming to pick her up Tuesday morning 9am. She has to spend the first 2 weeks in hospital on a locked ward, the she is taken straight to the rural environment for 13 weeks & has signed a contract to then spend another 10 weeks in a sober living home so she can learn coping mechanisms for when back in her own environment. Then another 2 weeks day patient from her home environment. That's what the $38 is all about along with going towards outings. Seems mighty cheap to me in the big scheme of things. 27 weeks in total. I'm so hoping and praying this works.

Good news!

That is great Pamela - I hope that all works out well for her.

Pam,
That is really GREeeeatttt!!!!!!!!!!

I pray she will have the strength to carry on in her quest for sobriety..


Gerry

That is indeed good news. Rehab can be a life saver if she gives it a chance.

I agree with Icehouse on the duration BTW. Even though for me the 70 days were enough (strict minimum there), most people went on to stay for about 3 months with another 6 months in assisted housing/aftercare programs.

70 days was the exception, but that was because I was so determined that when I stepped in there, it would be the first and the last time. I was done and I knew it. I just wanted those weeks to concentrate on myself only, to detox, and to try to gain a perspective on what the hell had happened, and how to avoid it in the future. Sounds selfish, and maybe it is, but it's good to stop the daily noise for a while and concentrate on getting better.

Also: I wasn't homeless, and so many of my fellow rehabbers were (or very close to it). Our social security pays for an almost unlimited number of stays, which has pros and cons like so many things. It's good in that money can never be an excuse for not trying to get sober. It's not so good because for many it was their umpteenth time, and they didn't see it as a big deal, or even important. The "record holder" was there for the 5th time. Yet, some do get sober after many tries, so who is to judge when enough is enough?

Some were there ordered by the courts. Some did it to just go through the motions. Some were people who just didn't have the skills to deal with modern life. Quite an eye opener for this here self employed cocooning IT wiz hot shot suburb dweller. :blush:

Many of them had been through 2 week detoxes or 1 month programs - with very little success.

I'm still trying to gather the courage to write a book about what I found there, how it works, the different people and stories. I have pages and pages of notes - I wrote down the day's events just before bed time. I started a few times, but literally choked up. I want to do justice to the stories, the people. And I have to write about myself in the most honest way too. Not easy, not easy at all. Yet, maybe worth it, as there is a huge gap between the first level (GP's) and the rest of the care system. Docs really just don't know what's available, how long it takes, how to refer people, costs. It's still very much a taboo and a black hole. Nobody has an alcohol problem, right? Some patients just "drink a little too much".

Maybe it would work for families and friends too. What to expect? What happens in such a place? How long does it take? Can we visit? Can they go home for weekends? Etc etc.

I don't want to write a vanity book, so I'm just trying to gauge the worth of actually writing it, getting it published, and "going public"...

Anyway, enough about me. ;) Pamela, I hope she finds the tools to get out sober and have a perspective on a sober life.

Please write the book.

You pointed me in the direction of Terry, which I finished yesterday. I cried many a tear, but the gaps between what's really happening/ happened in rehab are glaringly absent & from the writers perspective (father) glossed over, I imagine because he relied alot on Terry's notes & other people & the rehab grit went unwritten or perhaps he felt those rehab stories were not his to tell. From someone on the other side as you know, I've looked for lots to gain insight, it's how I first met you all (NT). What you say mirrors what DB told me, of his intake group only he remains sober nearly 2 years later (if we don't count the minute lapse that 1st Xmas when he drank but not enough to get drunk as I caught him out in the lie) 18 months 100% sober.
If I was a writer, I'd write the stories DB tells, but you've got it all 1st hand. It's so needed. :hug:

Interesting. I have been asked to write a book too. I am not a writer, and there is MUCH that I have not shared in this thread (too embarassed?) and I probably never will.

Maybe a collection of anonymous stories from around the globe?

Now that's an idea with value, every country treatment on offer is different from what I've learned - first hand experiences shared in one book would offer so much value. Wide-O and Icehouse your words of wisdom & later Kiwi, Gerry, Mrs D have helped me more than you could ever know from my very first foray onto this thread. I often wonder where Newtown (sp?) fares.

Pamela and Icehouse, count me in on the idea of writing a book (maybe an e-book?).

It seems to me that all of the people here (from different countries and with different experiences) have been very honest and supportive of each other.

I don't know how the technicalities of a book might work but sharing our mutual experiences with other folk could well help them.

Lots of food for thought.

Pamela, you are absolutely right in that the treatment is usually different in different countries.

That gave me the idea that maybe, for me, it has to be 2 things.

1) a book about my own story, with focus on everything "local", in my own language, with real names of places, facilities etc.*

2) distilling a story from that which is more "international" or universal, translated into English, so that we could bundle it with stories from Icehouse, Kiwi and everyone who feels up to it. It would be great if it includes the perspective of a "significant other" too - and maybe that could even be the narrator that introduces the stories and puts them into perspective. You have just been volunteered! ;)

Just thinking out loud. I had been struggling with the language aspect for a good while. Dutch is a very small language, yet the local aspect is very important if the writings are to be useful for people here. English is the more universal language, but then I can't really talk about some of the specifics. As an example, in English I would first have to explain the workings of our health care system etc. which would mean people fall asleep after 10 pages.

But the idea of a bundle of stories, available together, correctly edited and formatted, as a resource (online?) would be huge I think. Sure, we have this thread, and Pamela's , but that is not the same. A properly edited book - even if it were to be freely available online, which would have my vote - would be much more accessible.

PS: Newstown still visits from time to time. Last time I think he mentioned he was trying out Metanx?

* it would even contain a few "bombshells" that only make sense locally. One is about the son of a politician who used heroine in his room and dealt to others, got ousted by the staff (correctly so, those were the rules, he endangered other patients), and got himself killed in a fight the next day. Only those of us inside knew the real story, the papers never got it. His mother blamed rehab for the death of her son. She stormed into the facility the day after he died, howling as only the mother of a death child can. "YOU KILLED MY SON!" I still get goose bumps thinking about it; it was both unfair, but to her, it made total sense. Perspective... It also made us realise that we weren't in some kind of movie, that it was life & death for sure.

Writing all that down, how it affected us, without being rude or insensitive, is not going to be easy. But it needs to be done.

PS: it wasn't only "heavy stuff". If I were to tell you that one story is about a Jew, a Turkish Muslim, and a white power Neo Nazi who went shopping together in a beat car, and got stopped by the police... you'd think I was taking the mickey. Yet that's exactly what happened. They looked real scruffy and confused after 11 days of rehab (it was their first time out, and they went to a "Stock Americain" - army surplus shop - to buy some boots). Together, yes, as in rehab those political & religious divides pretty much evaporated. The cop could NOT understand that none of them blew positive! (or why they didn't try to murder each other!) When he asked where they came from, and they said the name of the place, he was even more taken aback, because the rehab was mostly known as a psychiatric clinic, a.k.a the "nut house". Even though they had no drivers license between them, they didn't even get a ticket and were free to go. :D

Here is a rough draft of what might go into an e-book or similar. As ever, improvements and suggestions would be great.

We are all members of NeuroTalk, which is a world-wide support board for people with neurological problems or mental health issues. One forum within NeuroTalk is concerned with people who abuse alcohol.

We live in different countries and have different experiences but have one thing in common; we all know about alcohol abuse and its consequences. Some of us know about this directly, others know about it because a family member is dealing with alcohol abuse.

These are our stories. For privacy reasons we have used pseudonyms. We all hope that our stories will help others.

Kiwi's story
For many years I drank moderately - maybe a glass of wine with a meal but nothing more. About 10 years ago I drank to excess because I was dealing with some very complex relationship issues and thought that alcohol would numb them. This was a poor choice - I behaved badly towards the two people involved and it has taken me a long time to rebuild trust with them both.

For me the wake-up call was when I went to my local bottle-shop to get my daily bottle of brandy. The owner did not have to ask - he just gave it to me. I asked myself "What are you doing to yourself?".

I then made the hardest decision in my life; I checked in to a psychiatric hospital for a month, getting great help from the health professionals there.

I have been sober for the last 10 years. Compared to others I have been lucky - I had some mild peripheral neuropathy in my hands which has largely resolved and still have a bit of minor essential tremor in my hands, which I can live with.

I hope that my story might help others who are dealing with alcohol abuse.

[Just my thoughts and a very rough draft of the kind of things that we all might say. mrsD, if this or something like it ends off in some third-party site, I don't think that I have broken any NT rules in it. Do you have any thoughts on this or any other suggestions?]

Great start. I think the process going in and staying at the hospital could be very interesting.

On another, PN related, note: I noticed again how much stress affects my PN. We went on a trip last week, and both days before driving I was pretty nervous. On both days, I felt a lot of pain in my feet, pain I hadn't experienced in a long while.

It was a 15 hour drive (over 2 days), and it doesn't matter as passenger or driver, as I'm a horrible passenger and prefer driving. I did 12 hours in total coming back (2 stints of 6, my wife drove the rest), and ... had almost no pain at the end of it. Once home, it completely went away (bar the usual discomfort). That can't be a coincidence.

I know rationally I shouldn't get stressed about something like that, but that's not how our brain works. Or at least mine. ;) It's like your whole body braces expecting pain and suffering. But on the flip side, it's another "victory" as I now know it's possible to go to Italy - even as a driver. It's not easy, and I wouldn't be able to do that every month, but it was doable.

Admittedly, after the drive home, I fell asleep as soon as my head touched the pillow , and didn't wake up for another 14 hours.

DB agrees a book would be invaluable. Nothing is out here to prepare anyone on what to expect going in, while there, coming out, staying out.
DB went to rehab 2 times, the very first time I was going to hospital for an operation and we had to take a taxi so I could take him to rehab first then take the same taxi to my hospital. I had my operation and 4 weeks later had complications & rushed to emergency. DB found out my brother was being lackadaisical in tending to the dogs & discharged himself. He stayed sober for 9 months. We all agree had he stayed the duration the first time & dealt with his PTSD things could have been different the next few years. But there you go, he made a choice based on his gut. Had he had the chance to read stories beforehand he may not have made that decision. In essence, the dogs were fine, they were safe, they were getting food & water but the routine differed to what DB expected. The rest is history. This is a VERY glossed over version of the first time & ive not mentioned the time inside. From a visitor perspective I cried a river.

That's a great example, and one that is very close to my situation, believe it or not. In the end, because of outside "noise", I had to cut my stay short by 2 weeks (was forced to really), and I would have *loved* to finish those. Oh, and it involved taking care of the dogs... It pained me for a long time, and could have turned very badly in hindsight.

I was so upset about it that exactly one year later, I asked for a meeting with the rehab staff to go over that situation, and they actually apologised to me. It's a long story, but it came back to me because you mention the "cutting short the stay". They appreciated me voicing my concerns and actually promised to change their "rules" so that this would never happen again. I had waited for one year sober to speak up so that I could somehow "prove" I wasn't just complaining for the sake of it (there was a lot of complaining going on in rehab :rolleyes: :D).

The best way to go in is to be sheltered as much as possible from the goings on at home (work...). I know that sounds selfish, but it is so important to be able to dedicate 100% of your stay to getting sober, that it has to take precedence over everything else. Most people aren't naturally selfish, but they need to be in this particular case - it pays itself many many times over later.

When you divide your attention - and part of your addiction wants you to! - you can't soak up the information that is given to you. When you don't get the right aftercare (like you say, treatment for PTSD for example), the chances are you are not going to make it.

I have seen too many cases where family drama during rehab made them quit or relapse. I know you can't stop the world just because you need treatment, and yet it is the ideal that should be pursued. There's so much guilt, self-anger, fear, discomfort, hope, mourning for the loss of your "little friend", self loathing, dealing with cravings, going on after you just sober up that you just can't take on anything else. You can't process much more.

A decent rehab should also involve reporting to close ones, counseling, explaining what goes on (without invading privacy). Mediation too. Loved ones are in a way patients too, and need help in dealing with what's going on. Rehab should not be a black box, that mythical place that turns an addict into a magically cured person.

We had no idea what rehab was, how to prepare for it. We were both scared out of our minds. I had been reading a lot about alcoholism, yet, as you say, almost nowhere did you read what exactly would happen there.

I was lucky in that I somehow figured out that being able to focus 100% was a big part of what would make or break it. I knew they wouldn't "cure me", they would give me 1) tools and 2) time to grasp them. I had closed down all my business dealings in an orderly fashion - which cost me a fortune, but it was money well spent - and prepared the house for my not being present. My wife works full time, but we bought things like a constantly running water fountain for the dogs and cats to drink from while they were alone in the house. Small stuff, but important. We did everything to prepare my stay so that I wouldn't have to worry OR could hide behind my concerns (!).

I had also decided my brain or intelligence wouldn't make me sober. Knowing statistics or being a smartass would not make me sober. Even though I'm a very private person, I wanted to fully cooperate, fit in, even if at first I didn't believe in something. When we were asked in "Creative Hour" to make a painting of our addiction, I went for it as serious as I could be. The normal me would laugh at that stuff (and many did), but I somehow felt that trying it *their* way would be wise. In hindsight I opened up as much as possible to their wisdom. To the other people in there too. I'm known as a difficult snarky person, but somehow I became very popular in there both for staff and other patients. I guess that was my secular way of doing what AA calls "admitting you have a problem and need help".

My wife didn't really believe in all that. She refused to attend the sessions with the psychologist. We fell out during my stay. I did so not need that at that point in time, but later on I understood. Ish. ;) (also the reason why my stay was cut short). This is partly why it is so difficult for me to write about it. I feel I already said too much. Anyway...

So yeah, I think there's a book in there from our stories, from what went well, and what went wrong. Nobody is ever in the exact same situation, but just knowing a few stories of how it went for us could surely help people who are considering doing the same.

Wide-O, I understand that feeling of you've said too much, I'm sorry. This process triggers memories, feelings of regret, loss, angst & perhaps anger. Sadly but honestly, it's what a book will need. We will, all of us who choose to participate will need to dig deep and to be frank, leave nothing unturned.

DB rehab the 2nd time was 4 years later at the same facility. Of DB intake, I was the only carer / family member who attended the weekly evening group sessions. There were 16 in DB group. Your wife Wide-O is not alone and I was told it's extremely common for the partner, mother, or father to refuse to go. I was apprehensive but I will be forever grateful I went. The support they offered during & beyond was immeasurable & I learned so much. There were family members from other previous groups & future groups; some nights there would be as little as 10, other nights we swelled to 22. All had stories to tell & it so helped me ready myself for DB return.

The stories will need to be collated, edited and grouped so each chapter flows. Anyone on here got that experience, or know of someone who can assist? I truly believe we should do this and I'm prepared to help in any way I can. Everyone who contributes should I believe remain anonymous. Our world of today is far too intrusive of people's right to privacy.

No worries, I was aware of how much it will take. And I absolutely agree that it will have to be dead honest, otherwise it would be rather futile.

I once started writing in 2014, when I was seeing an psychologist/alcohol counselor, who, ironically enough, had worked at that same rehab years before. She liked what I was writing, (I had made a start of 10 pages, and a structure), but also found it confronting to hear how it feels to the patients - even though she was well aware of the daily life there. She was disappointed when I told her it was all too raw to continue. She was also ready to assist if I ever picked it up again, with the only proviso that the book would never suggest moderation is a possibility for alcohol abusers (and I fully agree with that).

I have worked as a journalist in a previous lifetime, and as a writer on a comedy website, so I have some experience, but then again that was always about other people. ;)

As for assistance... let me talk to my good buddy from Canada. It was his life long friend who died in December due to alcohol BTW. He is well connected and has experience editing books and producing audio books. Mind you, if someone else has other suggestions I'm perfectly OK with that, I don't want to impose, and I don't even know if he's interested, but I have a feeling he will be. He'll be visiting me second half of this month, so we'll have some time to talk about our little (ahem) project. I also trust him 100%.

Yes, anonymous is pretty much a given. And if we go forward, we might consider taking it to a less public place to do the actual work. Not because we have much to hide, but because it might be slightly more comfortable. Nothing against NT of course, I'm very grateful for the platform they kindly provide. But I already feel we might be pushing the limits of what is useful content for their site (or this thread).

We on the support team consulted DocJohn about your proposed project. Just to make sure you all are following our guidelines.

His response was that a similar project was done not too long ago on the Parkinson's forum. That succeeded quite well to a final book. So Doc suggests you consider for privacy as did the PD posters, either requesting a private subforum, or a private social group here from him to keep your discussions private but still using NT as your platform. If you have any further questions, you can PM DocJohn anytime to discuss this project.

Here's DocJohn's profile so you can PM him for more info on setting up a free private subforum or group here to discuss and plan your book. :)

https://www.neurotalk.org/members/1.html

Wide-O your writing style demonstrate you still have it... if your friend would be willing to assist or point us in the right direction it will be wonderful. I wonder if it might be a touch to close in time, December seems only yesterday.

Mrs D & Chemar, thank you for your help, the idea of a private sub forum will I suspect help immensely.

We're gathering momentum, it's beginning to feel like it's going to happen :hug:

I have to run, but wanted to mention I had a kind PM from DocJohn, and replied. I'll try to respond here later and set it up! :)

Pam,
Any news how your SIL is coming along in rehab??

Gerry

Skyping dad tonight, hope to hear she actually went. Other than that not sure we will hear anything for 6 weeks. The first 2 weeks are in hospital on a locked ward and the following weeks are at the facility where there is strictly no family contact. News when it comes will be via the BIL that no one really wants to talk with & him having found the will (courage) to speak with dad. It might mean me reaching out by phone again. DB & his brother unlikely to be speaking with BIL (if ever) anytime soon.

Post edit
BIL taking dad to the hospital today to see her. So the good news is she went. I hope & pray today won't be stressful for dad, last time in hospital she was away wth the fairies & begging dad to take here home. We will Skype dad again next week and know more then. Thanks for asking Gerry. I'm told her PN is extremely bad.

2070 days sober.

Woke up early, threw the 1978 JC Penny cruiser bike in the wagon and went for a looong bike ride down by the river. It was a tad chilly in the shade, but when the clouds broke and the sun came through it was a real treat. I managed a few miles and did NOT fall on my face or bruise a shin bone so it was a success!

An update on my progress...I surpassed 100 days not so long ago. Feeling good.

PN went altogether for awhile, then came back a little, then went a little, back a little...but manageable for sure. Connected to food intake now...I'm guessing sugar, carbs and gluten. Any input with people's experiences with this would be welcome.

Noticed my partner drinking almost every day now actually, and getting pretty drunk twice a week. She doesn't say it in so many words but there's a 'you can't talk' about her attitude when I mention anything. I should have ended the relationship with her really but haven't wanted to rock any more boats right now with so many changes in my life.

Have a friend staying at my house for awhile and he's on just about every drug known to man...alcohol, weed, benzos and painkillers. I had planned to try smoking marijuana to help relax but seeing him has put me off. I just don't feel like I 'need' anything to be happy, fun or upbeat. And when I'm not, that's ok too.

Really enjoying the time distance between when everything went wrong for me through a series of drunken debacles and now. The bad past is being mentioned less and less and less, thank g-d. And I'm earning respect back week by week. My work output is so much better, I ran a 10k race in a good time at the weekend, I'm punctual, better dressed, clean all the time (not common when drinking constantly) and much more level headed.

Nice to check back and see people doing good.

Hello all. I haven't been posting in that no change to report here, and if anything I have declined some. As others have reported, stress is a major factor and I have been under much. The only improvement that I have noticed is that I no longer get the crazy heart palpitations. I was convinced I had the cardiac myopathy since the neuropathy is throughout my body and the "episodes" were not provoked by stress and often came when very relaxed. I guess I will look at that as progress.

10decisions, keep it going, it is all good. Icehouse, as always you are an inspiration. My gratitude to all who keep this thread going. It is only through your support that I continue onward hoping for a better tomorrow.

Just wanted to let you know how amazing I think you are doing in spite of the obstacles you have; i.e.. your partner and friend.

Keep on....keeping on.

Gerry

Pam,
That is really good news. I really think DB's trip home and his Dad's response to SIL when she hadn't realize her brother had been by to see her to say goodbye the night before. She was so "out of it", she didn't even know he had been there. Their father really let her know what he thought and felt.

Just the fact that she went is a good sign of her letting go of her denial. Success may be difficult, as you well know; especially the first time she is really putting forth a "real" effort.

Both she and DB are in my prayers.

Gerry

Just a quick check-in to update y'all on my laser treatments and disc decompression. I've had 13 treatments to date, and I wasn't feeling much of a difference except getting spasms in my right calf. Then last night and into this morning, I have had horrible neuro itch - creepy crawlies :eek: beneath my skin on my left foot. It feels really awful, but I am hopeful that both the itch and the spasms mean that my nerves are "waking up".

Does anyone else here have those symptoms? I have had them come & go in the past, but never as bad as after I started treatment.

Gosh I hope & pray it's a good sign & they are indeed waking up & I doubly hope the neuro itch becomes bearable. My poor old dad suffered terribly with PN, of course knowing what I do now about alcoholism and functioning alcoholics I know dad was high functioning & he had many rules in place to keep it under control. The lack of feeling in his feet and walking shuffle should have been a give a way sign but doctors tended to ignore it in those days. Hang in there, my dad lived a good long active life despite all his infirmities until he was 89. :hug:

I have the pins and needles and I guess it I wanted the visualization of worms crawling under my skin and throughout my muscles that too could describe it but I dare not let my mind go there. I have no itch but I have heard of many others complain about that.

I guess much depends on the type and places of nerves that are affected. For me, it was at first a combination of sharp shooting pains, constant burning - literally, like there being a flame to my feet, and the feeling someone was trying to remove my big toes with pliers. This was the stuff of nightmares, truly.

Today, at the worst moments, it's the tired pain of a broken foot that is now healing, at the best moments the feeling of there still being a few pebbles under the curl of my toes, and the insensitivity of a burn wound that is now healed. Which is why I always say that it's 80% better - most of the time.

I've never experienced crawling critters or itches, nor do I have any loss of motor control. I can walk normally, even dance. But I still needed to relearn driving as the touch of the pedal feedback only came back slowly after the pain had stopped drawing out the rest of the feeling.

The only time I felt the "creepy crawlies" beneath my skin; especially on my legs was when I was on Lyrica. That was some years ago. I only was on the Lyrica for a few weeks since I didn't tolerate well the "creepy crawlies" .


Gerry

Wow i never thought there could be ANOTHER TRIGGER OR CAUSE

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