Pamela and Icehouse, count me in on the idea of writing a book (maybe an e-book?).

It seems to me that all of the people here (from different countries and with different experiences) have been very honest and supportive of each other.

I don't know how the technicalities of a book might work but sharing our mutual experiences with other folk could well help them.

Lots of food for thought.

Pamela, you are absolutely right in that the treatment is usually different in different countries.

That gave me the idea that maybe, for me, it has to be 2 things.

1) a book about my own story, with focus on everything "local", in my own language, with real names of places, facilities etc.*

2) distilling a story from that which is more "international" or universal, translated into English, so that we could bundle it with stories from Icehouse, Kiwi and everyone who feels up to it. It would be great if it includes the perspective of a "significant other" too - and maybe that could even be the narrator that introduces the stories and puts them into perspective. You have just been volunteered!

Just thinking out loud. I had been struggling with the language aspect for a good while. Dutch is a very small language, yet the local aspect is very important if the writings are to be useful for people here. English is the more universal language, but then I can't really talk about some of the specifics. As an example, in English I would first have to explain the workings of our health care system etc. which would mean people fall asleep after 10 pages.

But the idea of a bundle of stories, available together, correctly edited and formatted, as a resource (online?) would be huge I think. Sure, we have this thread, and Pamela's , but that is not the same. A properly edited book - even if it were to be freely available online, which would have my vote - would be much more accessible.

PS: Newstown still visits from time to time. Last time I think he mentioned he was trying out Metanx?

* it would even contain a few "bombshells" that only make sense locally. One is about the son of a politician who used heroine in his room and dealt to others, got ousted by the staff (correctly so, those were the rules, he endangered other patients), and got himself killed in a fight the next day. Only those of us inside knew the real story, the papers never got it. His mother blamed rehab for the death of her son. She stormed into the facility the day after he died, howling as only the mother of a death child can. "YOU KILLED MY SON!" I still get goose bumps thinking about it; it was both unfair, but to her, it made total sense. Perspective... It also made us realise that we weren't in some kind of movie, that it was life & death for sure.

Writing all that down, how it affected us, without being rude or insensitive, is not going to be easy. But it needs to be done.

PS: it wasn't only "heavy stuff". If I were to tell you that one story is about a Jew, a Turkish Muslim, and a white power Neo Nazi who went shopping together in a beat car, and got stopped by the police... you'd think I was taking the mickey. Yet that's exactly what happened. They looked real scruffy and confused after 11 days of rehab (it was their first time out, and they went to a "Stock Americain" - army surplus shop - to buy some boots). Together, yes, as in rehab those political & religious divides pretty much evaporated. The cop could NOT understand that none of them blew positive! (or why they didn't try to murder each other!) When he asked where they came from, and they said the name of the place, he was even more taken aback, because the rehab was mostly known as a psychiatric clinic, a.k.a the "nut house". Even though they had no drivers license between them, they didn't even get a ticket and were free to go.

Here is a rough draft of what might go into an e-book or similar. As ever, improvements and suggestions would be great.

We are all members of NeuroTalk, which is a world-wide support board for people with neurological problems or mental health issues. One forum within NeuroTalk is concerned with people who abuse alcohol.

We live in different countries and have different experiences but have one thing in common; we all know about alcohol abuse and its consequences. Some of us know about this directly, others know about it because a family member is dealing with alcohol abuse.

These are our stories. For privacy reasons we have used pseudonyms. We all hope that our stories will help others.

Kiwi's story
For many years I drank moderately - maybe a glass of wine with a meal but nothing more. About 10 years ago I drank to excess because I was dealing with some very complex relationship issues and thought that alcohol would numb them. This was a poor choice - I behaved badly towards the two people involved and it has taken me a long time to rebuild trust with them both.

For me the wake-up call was when I went to my local bottle-shop to get my daily bottle of brandy. The owner did not have to ask - he just gave it to me. I asked myself "What are you doing to yourself?".

I then made the hardest decision in my life; I checked in to a psychiatric hospital for a month, getting great help from the health professionals there.

I have been sober for the last 10 years. Compared to others I have been lucky - I had some mild peripheral neuropathy in my hands which has largely resolved and still have a bit of minor essential tremor in my hands, which I can live with.

I hope that my story might help others who are dealing with alcohol abuse.

[Just my thoughts and a very rough draft of the kind of things that we all might say. mrsD, if this or something like it ends off in some third-party site, I don't think that I have broken any NT rules in it. Do you have any thoughts on this or any other suggestions?]

Great start. I think the process going in and staying at the hospital could be very interesting.

On another, PN related, note: I noticed again how much stress affects my PN. We went on a trip last week, and both days before driving I was pretty nervous. On both days, I felt a lot of pain in my feet, pain I hadn't experienced in a long while.

It was a 15 hour drive (over 2 days), and it doesn't matter as passenger or driver, as I'm a horrible passenger and prefer driving. I did 12 hours in total coming back (2 stints of 6, my wife drove the rest), and ... had almost no pain at the end of it. Once home, it completely went away (bar the usual discomfort). That can't be a coincidence.

I know rationally I shouldn't get stressed about something like that, but that's not how our brain works. Or at least mine. It's like your whole body braces expecting pain and suffering. But on the flip side, it's another "victory" as I now know it's possible to go to Italy - even as a driver. It's not easy, and I wouldn't be able to do that every month, but it was doable.

Admittedly, after the drive home, I fell asleep as soon as my head touched the pillow , and didn't wake up for another 14 hours.

DB agrees a book would be invaluable. Nothing is out here to prepare anyone on what to expect going in, while there, coming out, staying out.
DB went to rehab 2 times, the very first time I was going to hospital for an operation and we had to take a taxi so I could take him to rehab first then take the same taxi to my hospital. I had my operation and 4 weeks later had complications & rushed to emergency. DB found out my brother was being lackadaisical in tending to the dogs & discharged himself. He stayed sober for 9 months. We all agree had he stayed the duration the first time & dealt with his PTSD things could have been different the next few years. But there you go, he made a choice based on his gut. Had he had the chance to read stories beforehand he may not have made that decision. In essence, the dogs were fine, they were safe, they were getting food & water but the routine differed to what DB expected. The rest is history. This is a VERY glossed over version of the first time & ive not mentioned the time inside. From a visitor perspective I cried a river.

That's a great example, and one that is very close to my situation, believe it or not. In the end, because of outside "noise", I had to cut my stay short by 2 weeks (was forced to really), and I would have *loved* to finish those. Oh, and it involved taking care of the dogs... It pained me for a long time, and could have turned very badly in hindsight.

I was so upset about it that exactly one year later, I asked for a meeting with the rehab staff to go over that situation, and they actually apologised to me. It's a long story, but it came back to me because you mention the "cutting short the stay". They appreciated me voicing my concerns and actually promised to change their "rules" so that this would never happen again. I had waited for one year sober to speak up so that I could somehow "prove" I wasn't just complaining for the sake of it (there was a lot of complaining going on in rehab ).

The best way to go in is to be sheltered as much as possible from the goings on at home (work...). I know that sounds selfish, but it is so important to be able to dedicate 100% of your stay to getting sober, that it has to take precedence over everything else. Most people aren't naturally selfish, but they need to be in this particular case - it pays itself many many times over later.

When you divide your attention - and part of your addiction wants you to! - you can't soak up the information that is given to you. When you don't get the right aftercare (like you say, treatment for PTSD for example), the chances are you are not going to make it.

I have seen too many cases where family drama during rehab made them quit or relapse. I know you can't stop the world just because you need treatment, and yet it is the ideal that should be pursued. There's so much guilt, self-anger, fear, discomfort, hope, mourning for the loss of your "little friend", self loathing, dealing with cravings, going on after you just sober up that you just can't take on anything else. You can't process much more.

A decent rehab should also involve reporting to close ones, counseling, explaining what goes on (without invading privacy). Mediation too. Loved ones are in a way patients too, and need help in dealing with what's going on. Rehab should not be a black box, that mythical place that turns an addict into a magically cured person.

We had no idea what rehab was, how to prepare for it. We were both scared out of our minds. I had been reading a lot about alcoholism, yet, as you say, almost nowhere did you read what exactly would happen there.

I was lucky in that I somehow figured out that being able to focus 100% was a big part of what would make or break it. I knew they wouldn't "cure me", they would give me 1) tools and 2) time to grasp them. I had closed down all my business dealings in an orderly fashion - which cost me a fortune, but it was money well spent - and prepared the house for my not being present. My wife works full time, but we bought things like a constantly running water fountain for the dogs and cats to drink from while they were alone in the house. Small stuff, but important. We did everything to prepare my stay so that I wouldn't have to worry OR could hide behind my concerns (!).

I had also decided my brain or intelligence wouldn't make me sober. Knowing statistics or being a smartass would not make me sober. Even though I'm a very private person, I wanted to fully cooperate, fit in, even if at first I didn't believe in something. When we were asked in "Creative Hour" to make a painting of our addiction, I went for it as serious as I could be. The normal me would laugh at that stuff (and many did), but I somehow felt that trying it *their* way would be wise. In hindsight I opened up as much as possible to their wisdom. To the other people in there too. I'm known as a difficult snarky person, but somehow I became very popular in there both for staff and other patients. I guess that was my secular way of doing what AA calls "admitting you have a problem and need help".

My wife didn't really believe in all that. She refused to attend the sessions with the psychologist. We fell out during my stay. I did so not need that at that point in time, but later on I understood. Ish. (also the reason why my stay was cut short). This is partly why it is so difficult for me to write about it. I feel I already said too much. Anyway...

So yeah, I think there's a book in there from our stories, from what went well, and what went wrong. Nobody is ever in the exact same situation, but just knowing a few stories of how it went for us could surely help people who are considering doing the same.

Wide-O, I understand that feeling of you've said too much, I'm sorry. This process triggers memories, feelings of regret, loss, angst & perhaps anger. Sadly but honestly, it's what a book will need. We will, all of us who choose to participate will need to dig deep and to be frank, leave nothing unturned.

DB rehab the 2nd time was 4 years later at the same facility. Of DB intake, I was the only carer / family member who attended the weekly evening group sessions. There were 16 in DB group. Your wife Wide-O is not alone and I was told it's extremely common for the partner, mother, or father to refuse to go. I was apprehensive but I will be forever grateful I went. The support they offered during & beyond was immeasurable & I learned so much. There were family members from other previous groups & future groups; some nights there would be as little as 10, other nights we swelled to 22. All had stories to tell & it so helped me ready myself for DB return.

The stories will need to be collated, edited and grouped so each chapter flows. Anyone on here got that experience, or know of someone who can assist? I truly believe we should do this and I'm prepared to help in any way I can. Everyone who contributes should I believe remain anonymous. Our world of today is far too intrusive of people's right to privacy.

No worries, I was aware of how much it will take. And I absolutely agree that it will have to be dead honest, otherwise it would be rather futile.

I once started writing in 2014, when I was seeing an psychologist/alcohol counselor, who, ironically enough, had worked at that same rehab years before. She liked what I was writing, (I had made a start of 10 pages, and a structure), but also found it confronting to hear how it feels to the patients - even though she was well aware of the daily life there. She was disappointed when I told her it was all too raw to continue. She was also ready to assist if I ever picked it up again, with the only proviso that the book would never suggest moderation is a possibility for alcohol abusers (and I fully agree with that).

I have worked as a journalist in a previous lifetime, and as a writer on a comedy website, so I have some experience, but then again that was always about other people.

As for assistance... let me talk to my good buddy from Canada. It was his life long friend who died in December due to alcohol BTW. He is well connected and has experience editing books and producing audio books. Mind you, if someone else has other suggestions I'm perfectly OK with that, I don't want to impose, and I don't even know if he's interested, but I have a feeling he will be. He'll be visiting me second half of this month, so we'll have some time to talk about our little (ahem) project. I also trust him 100%.

Yes, anonymous is pretty much a given. And if we go forward, we might consider taking it to a less public place to do the actual work. Not because we have much to hide, but because it might be slightly more comfortable. Nothing against NT of course, I'm very grateful for the platform they kindly provide. But I already feel we might be pushing the limits of what is useful content for their site (or this thread).