Aussie,

Are you supplementing with calcium/magnesium complex? Muscles require sufficient magnesium to relax, and nerves require magnesium to stop firing when appropriate. If you take antacids or acid blockers, you are probably not absorbing enough magnesium for your body's needs. Magnesium deficiency can cause a tendency to twitch, cramps, or tremors.

A good calcium/magnesium supplement has approximately two calcium atoms for one of magnesium. Both would be in highly absorbable form: acid salts, chelated with amino acids, or to a lesser degree oxides. Basic salts such as carbonates or hydroxides are even less absorbable. Magnesium hydroxide is milk of magnesia, a potent laxative. From the Wikapedia article, "only a small amount of the magnesium from milk of magnesia is usually absorbed from a person's intestine". If you supplement with calcium/magnesium (you should take both if you take either), you also need about 400 i.u. of vitamin D to enable the body to utilize the calcium.

Don't overdo the amounts. Too much calcium/magnesium stresses the kidneys and can lead to painful kidney stones.

The following links are examples of pretty good supplemental calcium/magnesium:

http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDe...&pid=CLF-02481

http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDe...&pid=CLF-02522

http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDe...&pid=NWY-41311

http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDe...&pid=JRW-13012 (caution: too much magnesium citrate is highly laxative)

http://www.puritan.com/pages/file.as...CID=1&CPID=696 (calcium carbonate is cheap and not absorbed well)

http://www.puritan.com/pages/file.as...CID=1&CPID=740

I can recommend both vendors, but there are plenty of great vendors out there. Mainly, these are the kinds of ingredients you should look for, in these proportions.

I have not been able to find a magnesium/calcium combo in OZ. So I just have been taking the Magnesium on it 's own. I guess I have to also buy the the calcium seperately. Wings.. do you think that my Magnesium intake is too high?


Anne-Elizabeth,that story about the twitching makes sense. It's not a pretty story,but I understand it. I don't think I will use the foot massager anymore,as I would rather be in pain than twitch to be honest.

Thank you Cathie for sharing your massage experience. I guess the stimulation is more than my nerves seem to be able to handle.

Hi Aussie:

Give yourself a week with no Shiatsu. If your twitching stops......you'll know for sure. If it doesn't stop.......well, I have no answer.

This sounds like a trial and error thing.

Right now my left foot is spasming. Have no idea why. It's 75 degrees outside (up from 40 yesterday). Change in weather kills me.

Tomorrow it's going to be 50,then up to 70 then down to the 40's again.

Oh brother!!! Wish I could move to Las Vegas (I would love the desert).

Wishing you luck and sending you hugs!!!!
Melody

Hi Aussie, I think Dahlek hit the nail on the head by saying depends on how aggresive the massage is, a very gentle smoothing massage that feels great should do you more good than harm, because it does the same thing as magnetic therapy does, it increases blood circulation which brings oxygen & purities thats in the blood to the injured area.
I would take notice of Wings about adding 2 parts Calcium to one part Magnesium.
take care
Brian

How much are you taking, and what is the chemical composition? The reason you want to supplement with both is that calcium salts and magnesium salts partially block the absorption of the other. Supplements are very much concentrated compared to dietary sources, so if you're only taking magnesium salts, you're probably not getting enough calcium in your diet. That could also cause twitching. Here are the Natural Pharmacy articles in www.iherb.com : http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetCo...chunkiid=21795 for magnesium and http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetCo...chunkiid=21612 for calcium.

You can get the combination in Oz. I just brought up Google Australia and typed in "Calcium magnesium complex" to get this: http://www.google.com.au/search?q=ca...U&start=0&sa=N . Here are a few of the sites:

http://naturalhealthdirect.com.au/pr...ba5a1e201a386d

http://www.melrosehealth.com.au/prod...&products_id=3

http://www.pharmacyonline.com.au/nat...in-p-2028.html

http://www.paylesschemists.com.au/pr...8&SubCatID=150 (they don't list ingredients, so you'd have to check it out first)

http://www.goldenglow.com.au/product.asp?pID=131&cID=3

If you haven't ordered from the internet yet, it can be intimidating. If that's the case, just do it. I've bought virtually all of my supplements, and most of my electronics, power tools, and non-food pet supplies on the internet for about 10 years now with almost no problems. The ONLY problem ever (including buying from eBay) is that an electronic piano keyboard was delivered damaged. They took it back at their expense, and sent me another one.

Da*m your good!! I have never seen it anywhere. I always read your posts,but I have not actually seen the combo before. I have tracked it down to a chemist in my very own parish.

I will buy the Natures Own Brand as it also has vit. D3.

Right now I am taking Wagner Magnesium Supplements

Total elemental mag of 400mg per capsule
2x daily

Magnesium Oxide 568mg
Magnesium Phospahate 337mg
Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate 36mg
Zinc Oxide 2mg


I just bought a new bottle and it has 100 capsules in it. Do you think I should just put it to the side and buy the combo, or track down the calcium supplement on it's own and take it with my Magnesium?

Thanks Wings

That's an excellent formulation, but it's a lot of Mg per day. I'd take one a day until you're out of them, and add an equally good calcium formulation at the same time. If you're still twitching after a week, you might up the dosage to see if it helps. If not, I'd go back to one a day. The next blood panel you get done, you might ask the doctor to include blood electrolyte and mineral levels.

Any more minerals than your body can utilize risks developing kidney stones. My manager actually passed out in work from the pain of kidney stones. He had to have emergency surgery because the stones didn't break up with the new ultrasound blast treatment.

15 minutes in the sun without sunscreen will allow your body to synthesize all the vitamin D you need unless you have very dark skin. If your daily multivitamin has 400 iu, that's all you need.

I have bought the Calcium today. This is the formulation.


Calcium Carbonate 1.5g
(equiv. Calcium 600mg
Vitamin D3 200IU 1.5mg

Since my Magnesium is 400mg elemental magnesium, is it fair to think that I should be taking 1 and a half of these calcium tablets with the Mag in the morning,or should I opt for 2 tablets.

Thank you

Calcium carbonate is the active ingredient in Tums. While it may reduce heartburn if chewed, very little, if any will get into your blood stream. You might try taking the pills with orange juice so some will dissolve and turn into the very absorbable calcium citrate.

You can get enough of both magnesium and calcium in your diet, and supplement minimally because of your special needs as somebody with PN. Here's a pretty good discussion on the topic: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritio...e/calcium.html . They mention Tums, but neglect to mention that it's not absorbed very well.

There's a lot of flim-flam out there in the supplement world, with useless products being highly touted by the sales people. With calcium, the least useful types are calcium carbonate and it's "natural" clones, oyster shells and coral (both are the same as limestone). Dolamite is still sold. Besides not being absorbable, it is laced with toxic heavy metals.

There's no magic pill or simple answers. Every PN related health topic I've looked at over the years gets complex and conflicted the closer you look at it. I think a generally healthy and balanced approach with good diet, enough exercise, some supplements (I take far more than I probably need), a positive attitude, and avoiding toxic chemicals and toxic people will eventual relieve your pain and help heal your PN.