pain meds

Dr. Smith · 05-04-2012, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinehurstcharlie

My doctor said if i knew one or he invented one we would both be millionaires as there just isn't one out there like what I'm looking for no pain and no side effects. I truly think for me doing the supplements, exercise and diet is going to be the best thing for me to do , it might take time but in the long run I feel I won't be causing problems for the rest of my body with the bad side effects of all these drugs they want to hand out like candy .

Your doctor sounds like ours.

Ironically, sometimes it's not the meds with the SE that get you, because those SE are incentive not to take them, or take them as conservatively as possible. The ones that get you are the ones that work insidiously; you don't notice anything until 10-20 years later and suddenly your liver/kidneys/etc. are shot....

Fortunately, we now have the means to check meds out for ourselves. Twenty years ago, PDRs (Physician's Desk Reference), drug information sheets (that now come with prescriptions) & other medication information used to be exclusively the domain/purview of medical professionals (unless your public library happened to have one). I can recall talking to a doctor 25-30 years ago expressing some concern about something he was prescribing. He asked, "Where did you hear that?" and I replied, "I looked it up in the PDR". He got a very strange look on his face, and asked, "Where did you get one of those?" I think he was amazed that I even knew what a PDR was. I told him, "The public library." He left the room for a few minutes, came back, and handed me a scrip for something different. I think he checked it out first.

Doc

mrsD · 05-04-2012, 09:47 AM

Just so you know:

The PDR is only a collection of copies of drug inserts that come with every RX bottle. They are attached to the bottle on the shelf in the pharmacy. You can request an insert any time and all pharmacists give them out when asked for.

The PDR is not a miracle reference. In fact, it is mostly an advertising reference. Historically given free to medical doctors on graduation and thereafter by drug reps.

You won't find many listings for old drugs in it anymore. Things long on generic availability are usually dropped out of the book.
Its primary usefulness was the color pages to ID drugs. But now with so many generics they are not included there. Online drug pill ID is so easy now...no one needs that book at all.

There are no post marketing data in the PDR. Only when the insert is updated would the updated version appear in it. So doctors will NOT find accurate or timely data on new side effects, or emerging toxic reactions. In fact drug companies don't typically update their inserts. Usually updating is forced by FDA rules--addition of the black box is one reason. Birth control pills typically have more updated inserts than other drugs. Some doctors do not have the most recent PDR.. and may be still using an old one.

Dr. Smith · 05-04-2012, 10:31 AM

I was using it in historical reference (i.e. before the www) when it was all that was available. Info sheets didn't come with scrips back then (at the time of the anecdote), and we had no way of knowing anything about potential side effects.

What's available to us now is light years beyond.... Doctors have gotten better since then too.

Doc

ger715 · 05-04-2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susanne C.

I found that anti-depressants (Effexor) produced that zombie like feeling, as well as dilating my pupils so that I couldn't see. I was unable to stay on them long enough to see if the side effects passed, and uninterested in trying others after that. Gabapentin does not have any effect on me at all as far as altering my consciousness but it does control most of the burning, at least until recently. Oxycodone actually relieves enough of the pain to allow me to carry out my responsibilities, I am able to care for my family and home, even teach high school English part-time, with it. Without it I would be too distracted by the pain to do anything. if it has any effect on my personality it is a positive one. I am more energetic, which is counter-intuitive and illustrates the point that these drugs affect everyone differently. The only thing is that I do not drive if I take oxycodone, but I drive very little because of my condition anyway.

I could not agree more about the danger of neurologists and pcps prescribing anti-depressants. They are very powerful drugs with many more side effects than opiates and at least as much addiction potential. Many people do experience pain relief from them, and they may be more effective for this purpose than for their primary one. Their effect needs to be closely supervised, however, and rarely is.

A low dose Percoset to take the edge off the pain at night may be worth trying. For myself, I do not take them at night as they keep me awake. I have Valium for nights I cannot sleep but the gabapentin mostly covers that so I take them very rarely.

Antidepressants are mind altering and I won't take them. With the Oxycontin and Oxycodone (percocet) no mind altering proglems at all. Not even at the start. All these other things interfer with your mind. Even just for the breakthru Oxycodone (percocet) only is helpful. I do take vallium, as well, this helps with muscle pain and anxiety. Just need to time them because they will make you tired. I frequently cut mine in half. These still do not alter the mind either.

Gerry

ger715 · 05-04-2012, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Smith

I was using it in historical reference (i.e. before the www) when it was all that was available. Info sheets didn't come with scrips back then (at the time of the anecdote), and we had no way of knowing anything about potential side effects.

What's available to us now is light years beyond.... Doctors have gotten better since then too.

Doc

I have found my best advocate is researching the internet for info on procedures and meds. Most doctors do not have any idea of the side effects, they only hear what the sales reps tell them and then pass them along to their patients. Not good. Again, we must be our own advocate. I must add NT has been a great source for me as well.

Gerry

Dr. Smith · 05-04-2012, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ger715

Antidepressants are mind altering and I won't take them.
....
I do take vallium, as well, this helps with muscle pain and anxiety. Just need to time them because they will make you tired. I frequently cut mine in half. These still do not alter the mind either.

Hi Gerry,

I'm a little confused.

How is helping with anxiety not altering the mind? Or... how is Valium helping with anxiety (and all the other effects it has on the brain/mind) different than antidepressants helping with depression (when they do)?

Both Anxiety and Major Depressive Disorder are considered States of Conciousness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered..._consciousness

And "altered states of mind" can be caused by (in addition to psychoactive drugs) fever, sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, lucid dreaming, hypnosis, meditation, & prayer, and childbirth. Ibid.

Thanks,

Doc

ger715 · 05-05-2012, 03:21 PM

[QUOTE=Dr. Smith;876267]Hi Gerry,

I'm a little confused.

How is helping with anxiety not altering the mind? Or... how is Valium helping with anxiety (and all the other effects it has on the brain/mind) different than antidepressants helping with depression (when they do)?

Both Anxiety and Major Depressive Disorder are considered States of Conciousness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered..._consciousness

And "altered states of mind" can be caused by (in addition to psychoactive drugs) fever, sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, lucid dreaming, hypnosis, meditation, & prayer, and childbirth. Ibid.

Doc, I deal with a lot of muscle spasms. This has really helped me to be able to lay on the left side. For years, I could not do this; even with muscle relaxants. Vallium is much different than antidepressants that boggle the mind. Also, plan, near evening, before retiring...or at times during the day when need to relax a bit and split pill. I am not talking big time heavy dose.

They Do Not alter the mind. Maybe a bit relaxed; and muscle spams helped; but that's it. They are not even like a xanax or any of that stuff. I tried Cymbalta for a week a few years ago. I felt like a space cadet and that on...all I wanted to do all day was lay down and got more depressed because couldn't accomplsh anything.
Thanks,

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