Hi Ladies,

I enjoyed seeing your articles on rabies. Not to cause unnecessary fear mongering, but there is more rabies out there than we think of. In Sedona Arizona this year 7 people had to receive the shots from a wild bobcat who tested positive and went around biting humans and pets like Godzilla!

What a crazy thing. As BatBite said, it's like the mid evil ages!

MrsD, I have my EMG Tuesday. Thanks for encouraging words of support, I'm not looking forward to it but not dreading it now either. Has to be done

Hope all are enjoying long weekend

Wonder how Peaceful Day is :) I empathize with him, I remember those days and just sheer terror. Heck, I still have them some days when my body gets wacky! :)

Update
 

Hey everyone,

At the current moment I'd say I feel pretty okay. I'm just sitting and enjoying some tea on a quiet Sunday. This is very different from my last few nights which have continued to be rough. "Sheer terror" is definitely an apt description.

So yesterday morning I began becoming concerned with the excessive saliva issue. My parents (who have been patiently supporting me through this entire ordeal) said it was probably dry mouth from Zoloft that I was taking. But I knew that this was definitely not dry mouth, exactly the opposite.

I looked up other causes of excess saliva (besides the horrific obvious choice) and strep/sore throat caught my eye as a cause. I had been to the doctor on Monday and he noticed my throat was swollen and gave me antibiotics in case it was strep. But he never told me directly I was positive for strep. He sent out a culture, but I haven't heard anything back. So I've been taking the antibiotic kind of willy nilly (big mistake).

Another cause of excessive saliva is anxiety. Go figure.

So yesterday afternoon my throat starts hurting and I kept swallowing saliva. Eventually, in the evening it felt like I had swallowed enough saliva that it was coming back up to my mouth.

At that time, everything in my mind was saying "This is the END. You are dying". I then coughed a little, threw up a little, and then just sat in front of the toilet and spit until I could calm myself down.

My mom was there this entire time (I live with her currently). She kept telling me to repeat this: "I DO NOT HAVE RABIES!". We went and lied down together in the bed, she held my hands and kept telling me that my thoughts and feelings about rabies were not true. She kept telling me that I was a healthy, confident person with a long happy life ahead of me.

I was able to calm down after maybe 1-2 hours, then I went to sleep in my own bed.

I know that I am a 21 year old male and I'm supposed to be Mr. Tough and Independent, but I am so grateful to have someone like my mother to support me. Don't get me wrong, you guys definitely have helped me through a lot the past few days. But having someone who is physically there to stave away irrational and horrifying fears is invaluable.

Today was much better, however. I was able to go to the gym and do my full workout, I went to the organic market and bought some anti-anxiety tea, and now I'm getting ready to do so very neglected laundry.

I will continue to update you guys as I get through this. I WILL get through this! Everyone of us WILL get through this! :hug:

Saliva
 

Ummmm, yes. The excess saliva thing is so creepy that I've only given it a passing mention here on the forum. Hate to even let it into my concious thoughts too much. Not to the point of having so much as you, peacefulday, but I've had 3 instances of excess saliva. At around 3 months out, I bent forward to talk to the dog and drooled a pool about the size of a silver dollar on the kitchen floor. I don't drool, and I wasn't anxious at that moment. Had all I could do to get a grip and not completely wig out. Now 7 months out from completing the shots and my mouth occasionally feels a little too "soupy" but not like the three earlier instances. Not an expert, but I think it's side effects from the vaccine that unfortunately mimic rabies symptoms. It's stuff like this that either panics the heck out of you, or makes you question your sanity. Thank goodness for your mom.

Batbite,

I remember reading that part in your past posts about the over salivation. I'm sorry if my post brought you discomfort or scary memories. At least I have a few things (strep, anxiety) that I can attribute it to.

Strangely enough, I think it produces more if I start to think about it. But when I'm not thinking about it, I usually don't even notice. Also, I woke up this morning with a completely dry mouth so I'm thinking my conscious is the underlying problem.

Your idea of the vaccine response might also be true. At moments like the ones I had last night, I will take any sort of explanation I can get.

Thank you for talking about it though, Batbite. Even if it is a tough subject.

Also, I wanted to tell you guys (or any future readers of this thread) that hydrophobia does NOT necessarily mean rabies. I spoke with a man named Dr. Ruprecht who works at the largest private owned rabies testing facility in the U.S. When I was asking him if anxiety would have any effect on the effectiveness of the vaccine, he said flat out NO. He said that he's even seen patients who receive the vaccine, become anxious and hydrophobic for a while, but are ultimately healthy and rabies-free. He also said that the rabies vaccine series has NEVER failed in the U.S. since the 1970s. I know that's been said before in this thread, but it doesn't hurt to hear it again (especially if its from an expert that knows what they are talking about).

Thanks
 

peacefulday, thank you for sharing the information! You are doing the best thing possible; researching and finding reliable facts. Especially in situations like ours, knowledge is indeed power.

Hi Peaceful Day,
I'm so glad to hear from you! I thought of you this weekend often and wished you well :)

I never had the excessive saliva, but I live in Phoenix and don't drink enough liquids so that's probably why! ive sure had about everything else you can imagine though happen to my body!

I hate to sound like the %*$&@@ doctors but SOME of this is anxiety. I hope you guys aren't mad at me for saying that because we definitely ARE having REAL symptoms but let's say stress sure "ain't helpin"

My advice is to stay offline. Gosh if only I could listen to my own advice!!!!

Peaceful Day, you're so young I'm 29 and while I'm technically "in my 20s"
You have a LONG LONG life ahead and these are the best years!!! Go to college, party hard, make fun mistakes, treat others nice always, and TRAVEL

Don't let this small bump in the road ruin this magical time my good man!
You ARE tough and strong, don't you ever forget that. How many people can get shots and be brave like you?! How many people have been through a battle like this?

You are brave and strong Peaceful Day, don't you ever think differently!

Another thought
 

Something else I thought about

Does anyone, and I have a feeling our lovely Mrs D shout out to you Mrs D! :) happen to know when first rabies shots were administered? 1950s?

Think how hard those people had it! 21 shots or more IN THE ABDOMEN. And that was until the 90s I believe, or 80s.
And those were the early days when shots were brand new.

Now for the past 70 years they have been perfecting them and studying them and we didn't have to get very many, and only in our arm!


See- we are struggling, but it could always be worse.
Our words- who knows who is reading them and who this is touching. Hopefully anyone on this journey

Even in these hard times let us count our blessings always

I agree with your sentiment wholeheartedly, Trippin2. This is a tough process, but we are all getting through it one day at a time.

I hope everyone else is doing well. Personally, I'm feeling really great today. I finally found out that the excess saliva was caused by the strep throat. The strep result came back positive. I know it sounds weird, but I've never been so happy to have strep in my life. Like I said before, that saliva issue scared the living heck out of me.

Now I'm just sitting here with a sore throat and an occasionally tingly finger, but that's nothing compared to what I've gone through.

I looked on Wiki, and there isn't much there.
A mention of a human vaccine improvement in the mid 60's.

You can Google for more if it is important to you.

But the vaccine had been around for years before then and required 21 shots in the abdomen which were painful and had loads of side effects.

Thanks for the info! Glad to know this, wasn't sure

Hi guys,

I want to thank Mrs D for her kind and true words regarding EMG test. The nerve one bothered me a bit but EMG was virtually painless. A word to anyone who may need one- the nerve tests often aren't necessary in totality like EMG for some things. Don't be afraid to ask

No ALS or MS showing- thank you God.
God is good always

Thanks for letting us know how the EMG went, trippin2. Prayers of thanks, indeed!

I haven't posted for awhile because I have nothing to post! Things are pretty good! And yes, all thanks go to God, good days and bad.

Hi BatBite

I'm so glad to hear from you and this! Glad you're doing well, you've been so important to me in this.

I won't be getting on as frequently ( hopefully ) but will check in every few days for you
(And Peaceful Day) I hope his gets out of his system soon, 21 is too young for this!

This vaccine really has given me a new lease on life. Can't take anything for granted and savor it all.

Helping others is best gift of all.

God Bless Us All and full recoveries to all always

Thanks for keeping me in your thoughts, Trippin2. I'm happy to hear that your test went well. I think I've gotten over my rough patch from last week. Still dealing with the strep throat and a few neuro things from the vaccine (tingling fingers, back/neck pain), but I feel like I'm definitely on the road to recovery.

I got my blood drawn for a titer today just to fully convince myself that the vaccine did its job. Hopefully, it didn't do too much damage beyond just that. But I guess I'll find out in the coming months.

Cheers to all

Very glad to hear from you peacefulday! I'm surprised they did a titer for you. I asked several times and my doctors wouldn't do it. Every little piece of reassurance helps.

Peaceful Day,

I'm surprised they did a titre too. If it comes back inconclusive don't panic, may just be too soon to tell.
I promise you got shots in time, remember, veterinarians have gotten these shots for 70 years so they monitor them closely, it's not a new shot like gardasil or something

Don't ever get another vaccine though guys!

Yeah, I will definitely let you guys know once I get the results back. The lab said I would receive the results by this coming Tuesday. I was able to just get a prescription for the blood draw from my doctor and then got it done at a nearby hospital. They even provided all the shipping materials needed for that sort of thing (I.e. Biological specimens). Then I just sent it to a lab in Atlanta that does the test.

It's weird how they didn't let you guys get the titer. It might have also helped that I called my doctor during one of my major panic attacks. I think they just wanted to help me in any way they could, especially since my anxiety was so extreme for a while there.

Also, I definitely relate on that note of not getting anymore vaccines. Every time I go to my pharmacy, they ask if I want a flu shot. If they only knew what my body has been through...

Peaceful Day,

Try to enjoy your weekend as best as you can, I know it's hard. Labor Day weekend though :)

Don't want to pry but are you in college? If you don't feel up to being out and about this weekend, it might be a good time to reflect on your future and set goals!

Anything is possible Peaceful. I grew up in a crappy poor rough town of 5,000 ppl and finally got out of there at 26. Finished my education, moved out to Phoenix, and am trying to rebuild my life now for a bright future ( and from this vaccine)

If you ever want to talk about anything folks I'm here, and not just for vaccine

Titer Results!
 

Woo! I got my results back today for the end point titer. It turns out that my immune system is amazing and produced a huge amount of antibodies in response to the vaccine. And to think I was worried about vaccine failure ;).

For those who are curious, it was 20.8 IU/mL and there were still antibodies present at a dilution of 1:1300 (which is a really small amount of serum).

Also, Trippin, I appreciate your motivational suggestion about setting goals. I am in my senior year of college right now. My ultimate goal was (and still probably is) to become a veterinarian. However, that goal has put me through the ringer (i.e. the rabies exposure). The only reason I was exposed was because I work at a vet clinic and we were treating the sickly kitten that some client brought in. This rabies fiasco isn't the only thing that has shaken my dedication to my goal, but it definitely made an impact.

My story isn't as inspiring as yours, for sure. I grew up and live in a fairly affluent suburb of Washington DC. I went to great schools and was given great opportunities. I still have great opportunities available to me, its just choosing my specific path that is becoming the hard part.

I will continue to check in every few days from here on out. Both mentally and physically I feel 100% back to normal, so hopefully it stays that way.

And if we get any newcomers, I would be happy to help them though this :)

Wow!
 

Wonderful news, peacefulday! Life can really jolt your plans sometimes. As you know, you'll need to do a lot of research and consult some experts before becoming a veterinarian. In 2009, I finished an entire program in Asian Body Therapy and was all set to go forward with my second career. Then a prescription of Cipro changed everything. It trashed my immune system and left me with severe food allergies, multi-chemical sensitivity, joint damage, and a torn retina. And those problems are what is left after a long, long, long period of recovery. I could have done the Thai Body Work, Shiatsu, Tui Na, and traditional massage, but I couldn't be anywhere near the herbs, essential oils, and lineaments that are necessary along with those protocols. End of second career. I still wouldn't exchange the experiences and knowledge I gained for anything. That knowledge gives me the best of both worlds, alternative medicine and biomedicine, when making health decisions for my husband and myself. As they say, there's a reason for everything even if we may never know why. I retired from a clerical job at a community college. Both you and trippin2 seem to have very healthy attitudes and outlooks on life. I have a saying on the front of my fridge; "Setbacks pave the way for comebacks." Stay positive.

Thank you, Batbite! Yeah, life can be pretty unpredictable, but this latest ordeal has made me appreciate the ride a lot more. I'm sorry to hear that your second career fell apart just because of one prescription. However, I'm glad you were able to take something positive out of it.

I've definitely researched and experienced firsthand the hardships of veterinary medicine. I usually thrive in high stress situations, so working at a vet clinic felt like a perfect fit. However, I'd be lying if this rabies thing hasn't shaken my faith in my ability to perform in that way again.

I'm going to take the next few months to reflect and figure out if I'm really as passionate about vet medicine as I thought I was. I probably stick with something in the biology/medicine field (since that's my degree), but there are endless different jobs/careers in that area.

Peaceful Day,
Glad your results came back! Clear!

I'm so happy you're in school, for some reason I thought you weren't. Idk if I could do the medical field with having to take vaccines so often 😩 But I am now an anti vacc crusader I guess!

My advice is do whatever makes you happy :)
You'll change so much this decade of life. Friends and traveling should be your number one priority along with education!

Glad my 2 favorites are better! I've been feeling good, right now I have a headache and heartburn but l will take that any day over the hell I was in before!

Just Checking In
 

Hi everybody!

I hope everyone is doing well and haven't been having too many health issues. Personally, I'm doing fantastic. No symptoms at all. I did drool a little today while eating lunch which scared me for a split second, but nothing major.

Being back at school has definitely been a great and productive distraction from any worrying. I'm taking a yoga class as one of my electives which has been really helpful to ease my mind and body overall. If anyone has anxiety issues like I did, yoga really helps.

Cheers to all!

I've had some "needle in the foot" and shooting pains I my right foot, and my energy level is still a bit sub-par, but other than that things are great. I've made gifts for 50% of the people on my Christmas list. So good that my attitude is positive and upbeat, not living under a cloud any more.

Good to hear from Batbite and Peaceful Day and see good news!!

I'm overall well, the 17th of this month will be exactly 5 months since my last shot.

I have had some muscle aches/ weakness, low energy, and occasional muscle fluttering/ twitching but I try to put it to rest and out of my mind. I don't let my mind wander anymore and go to dark health fears and rarely check this site.

I know now why we never hear from ATX man and Albertakewl- they've recovered and moved on to healthy happy lives and I plan to do the same and not log on here (unless I'm very bad again)

The Dos Exqious man (spelling?) tells us to stay thirsty but I say stay BUSY my friends!

Wishing happiness health and wellness to all

that was a typo...i meant 2 EMGs later

It is uncommon for posters here to stay a long time after they feel better. We do have some regulars here who enjoy helping so those are the ones who stay. We welcome all helpers though as they are providing tremendous help to those who are suffering.

Up and Down journey
 

Well, things were pretty good for about a month, then I really pushed it physically; cooking, cleaning, entertaining friends...and WHAM....two very bad nights of awful general body pain, shooting pains down the left leg, and left flank pain. No siezures, thank goodness, but a little difficulty swallowing normally. As others have posted, physical exhertion seems to be a problem. Wondering how long this will be?

I'm sorry to hear about your recent issues, Batbite. I've been experiencing some recent issues myself after 4 weeks of feeling great. I came down with a sore throat this past weekend, followed by some major congestion, a slight cough and body aches starting yesterday and continuing into today. I'm pretty sure its just a bad cold or maybe even the flu.

However, I'd be lying if I said it hadn't reignited some of my health concerns. I have every reason to believe that I'm fine (the titer, the vaccine, etc). But its hard to shake that negative mindset. Fortunately, it hasn't led to any panic attacks yet. However, I fear that the longer I have this flu/cold, the worse my anxiety will become.

I hope all of us continue to heal and feel better.

It does play on your mind when any symptoms that could possibly be related to rabies present. Especially in your case and mine with our biology backgrounds, "A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing." My original degree was Dental Hygiene, and of course later I studied TCM. We are attuned to signs and symptoms, diagnosis, and remaining open to all possibilities that could cause those signs and symptoms. When our children were small, I worked 3rd shift as a nursing assistant in a hospital (to keep the children out of daycare.) When I had that job I learned the truth of the addage "Doctors make the worst patients." They DO lie in bed and ruminate over their illness, self diagnose, and are extremely anxious and contentious, questioning everything. The exact behaviors that they discourage in their patients. I don't know how long this rabies experience will nag at the back of my mind. I've kind of drawn a mental "line in the sand" for myself at one year out, Christmas Eve, the date of my bat bite. Every Christmas Eve I celebrate for the rest of my life is going to be extra special. Still having some nerve pain in the left leg, needles and tingling in the soles of my feet, and the occasional myoclonus as I fall asleep, but at least I'm sleeping well, no siezures. Keep on, keep positive, hang on to the solid logic and test results that indicate that things are going well.

Negative Thoughts Return
 

So these past few days (as I somewhat suspected would happen) my negative thoughts regarding rabies started coming back. I think it started coming about because I was looking up cold/flu symptoms since I was trying to self-diagnose (like Batbite mentioned).

Somehow through that, the questions about rabies symptoms started popping back into my head. Before I knew it, I was reading message boards that were saying how the vaccine doesn't guarantee anything (especially the longer you wait) and the titer doesn't guarantee protection. Medicine and science is all based on probabilities of how much something might be effective. I don't WANT probabilities, I WANT to know that I'll be 100% okay.

I had all the positive facts and logic behind me (I got vaccinated within 36 hrs, I have a great titer level, I've had no major symptoms in the last month, etc). But I still fell to the same level of self-induced anxiety and panic that I had fallen to in the past.

My mom called it an addiction, and I'd say that's a pretty good description. My mind is addicted to this morbid fear, and sometimes it feels like I just can't get away from it. Its also coming back at the worst time, while I'm trying to study for two exams coming this Monday.

Most of my cold symptoms are going away, which is good. But I have a feeling the anxiety is gonna stick around for a little bit.

I know its probably only Batbite hanging around here now, but this group has once again served as a great source of support for an issue that very few people understand.

help wanted with rabies shot reaction questions
 

Hi everyone!

what happened:
In early May I was scratched by a Nepalese monkey in an unprovoked attack. I received a rabies vaccine (Abhayrab) followed by a HRIG shot (three other vaccines followed in India and USA). I was in the best shape of my life (30s) before this incident, with no surgeries or health issues.

Though my symptoms in the last 5-6 months have eased off a bit, I'm still having nightly insomnia resulting from acute myoclonus.

Doctors differ on whether it's serum sickness or antibodies in the central nervous system being revved up, as the below tests have ALL shown normal readings (no infection from monkey/travel bugs etc.) despite having my CNS wreak absolute havoc. Anyway, life is short(er) so I'll just get right to it with the rest of my symptoms/tests/questions...

symptoms:
-paresthesia (lower legs/feet & forearms/hands)
-carpel tunnel type symptoms (in both hands)
-waking up with numb hands
-fasciulations randomly everywhere
-pallesthesia (left hand/foot)
-myoclonus/hypnic jerks
-Exploding Head Syndrome
-Icepick headaches
-aching/spasms in lower back
-fogginess
-extreme dizziness

tests:
-Brain MRI
-Neck x-ray
-Arm x-ray
-Urine heavy metal panel
-White blood cell differential
-CBC (complete blood count)
-C4 complement
-Creatine kinase
-Cryoglobulin
-C3 complement
-Total hemolytic complement
-Potassium
-Sodium
-Magnesium
-Calcium, serum
-Free thyroxine (T4)
-Thyroid stimulating hormone (tsh)
-Borrelia burgdorferi antibody
-Serum rheumatoid factor
-Erythrocyte sedimentation rate (ESR)
-CRP (C-reactive protein), serum
-Glucose
-Dengue virus antibody
-Total bilirubin
-Alanine aminotransferase (alt)
-Aspartate aminotransferase (ast)
-Vitamin B12 (cobalamin)
-Folic acid , serum
-Vitamin D
-Rickettsia typhus group antibody
-Giardia lamblia antigen
-Clostridium difficile antigen and toxin, a and b, w reflex to pcr

questions:
-has anyone with the same'ish symptoms had the vaccine only (as opposed to + immunoglobulin)?
-has anyone here presented with the typical serum sickness symptoms, including rash?
-has anyone experienced repeated hypnic jerks (most nights) and found a cure without prescription meds?
-has anyone had serum sickness treatment?
-has anyone had a spinal tap to investigate further?
-what tests am I missing to identify the shot reaction?

Thank you!
the Monkeyman

Monkeyman, that is a very detailed series of tests.

I can't see anything there which suggests acute or chronic inflammation nor a chronic immune response, including (without other clinical signs) an auto-immune condition.

This is just a guess but you could ask your doctors to look for oligoclonal antibody bands in samples of your serum. That may or may not be informative.

Thanks Kiwi, I forgot to add an EMG and nerve conductivity study...is your suggestion a test for MS? After reading this thread, I should probably be more worried about ALS.

I'll definitely ask about it! I'm probably going to do a spinal tap next as they say that should provide more answers. Hopefully others will chime in on my other questions. Cheers.

Hello monkeyman. You certainly have covered a lot of ground on your rabies vaccine journey before posting here. After reading your post I really have little to add or say except that I would really err on the side of caution with invasive testing. Please carefully consider the value of what you might learn from a spinal tap balanced off against potential harm. We all have to live at our own comfort level with these decisions. Wishing you the best with your recovery. It certainly is not easy living with the neurological fall out post vaccine. Still, I've never been so grateful for something that caused me so much misery. Very glad I'm living in a time when there is something that can prevent rabies.

peacefulday, hopefully studying will occupy your mind in a good way this weekend. Best wishes on those exams. You are correct in that few people understand this continuous, deep seated anxiety and fear. I really don't think it's all generated by "anxiety." From what I've experienced, I think there's also something biochemical going on in the brain that causes these periods of dark thought. It's like something is chemically out of balance and out of our control to change by conscious thought, and it comes and goes. I have to say, I haven't had an episode of that gripping fear for quite some time. Hope the same for you soon.

Monkeyman, I suggested talking with your doctors about looking for oligoclonal antibodies in your serum because I wondered if you might have had an unusual immune response to the rabies vaccines and HRIG that you received. Oligoclonal antibodies in CSF (not serum) can indicate MS.

ALS is very rare (about 2 people per 100000 are diagnosed with it each year) and usually signs of it first develop in people in the 55-75 year age range

I'm concerned that if I don't get a diagnosis (as opposed to postulating) with the spinal tap, it might be too late for treatment and these myoclonus issues may stay indefinitely.

It seems as though people without acute hypnic jerk symptoms have been able to make a full recovery. As you mentioned, it's tough holding down a career (for medical insurance etc.) whilst dealing with this, so I'm quite eager to pursue anything that will rid me of this curse...if that something was simply waiting to heal like ATXman, I would prefer that route, but I read that Albertakewl is still experiencing them more than two years later...which makes a lumbar puncture a more palatable option than it was, prior to reading this forum.

That makes sense. I did not realize that there is treatment for the hypnic jerks/myoclonus. The post rabies vaccine is my second experience with myoclonus. The first was with the Cipro debacle...after that the myoclonus lasted for almost four years.