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-   -   An Algorithm for the Evaluation of PN (Neuropathies) (https://www.neurotalk.org/peripheral-neuropathy/19194-algorithm-evaluation-pn-neuropathies.html)

nide44 05-10-2007 10:33 AM

Brian,
I don't know enough, either - Im no scientist, but I'm an old salt.
Sailed for years. Sailed sloops and yawls. From 25 to 50 feet. Marconi rig, Fractured rig, single & double headsail, aft cockpits, center cockpits. Sailed the Irish Sea, sailed the Atlantic coast, sailed the Chesapeake Bay (my home waters) -but I don't sail anymore. Afraid I'd fall overboard cause my balance is all screwed up. Miss it, terribly.
But I do know that as a sailor, I'd watch the barometer for changing weather. Drops in millibars always made my feet hurt. Drops in millibars means there's a change coming, a front is moving in..... I'd watch out for changing weather- anything from a summer thunderstorm to something BIG! (Big drop-FAST!)
My feet stared telling me of barometer changes almost before the
barometer did. I'd check the barometer if my feet started aching in a special way.
Sometimes it meant nothing (PN is screwy that way), but it was
an even 50/50 shot that there was a change on the way.
That's all I can say.
Barometer rising, means fair weather (It says so, right on the instrument. Gives you a section for ....fair, change, & foul weather.........right on the dial.)
I was used to an almost unconscious habit of checking the chrono,
the barometer, and my compass headings- all the time - a habit.
I've made an analogy, for me. I'm just passing it along.
I don't need to check the barometer anymore, my feet tell me
if there's gonna be a change in the weather.
Get yourself an inexpensive (not cheap) wall barometer (not a digital) for your house, and see if it affects you the same way.......... It might.

(BTW - Travel by airplane doesn't seem to help my feet,
it makes them worse!)

HeyJoe 05-10-2007 12:33 PM

Call me cynical, but since hyperbaric chambers are being purchased by doctors for their offices, for example for autism to name but one, i think we would be hearing more about people being offered these treatments if it worked for many peoples PN. Once a doctor makes an investment in equipment, they want to use it as much as possible to make their money back. It may work for some, either because of their cause or makeup, or at the point they caught it, but i doubt it works for many. I wish it did.

MelodyL 05-10-2007 01:36 PM

I could see a hyperbaric chamber working for PN MORE THAN I COULD SEE IT WORKING FOR AUTISM!!!!

How on earth could it do anything for autism???? Doesn't it bring oxygen to the blood vessels, or something like that?

What would doctor do?? Put an autistic child in a hyperbaric chamber, and after a few treatments, he wouldn't be autistic anymore??

Is there an autistic child who would sit still in a hyperbaric chamber???

And since more kids (1 in 150) are being diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder, our Presiden better wise up and put more money into research on what causes autism, AND LESS MONEY IN THE WAR.

Just my two cents. Sorry to vent!!!

Melody

HeyJoe 05-10-2007 01:46 PM

I have no idea if it helps or not, but i do know that they are using hyperbaric chambers for autism and allergies.

cyclelops 05-10-2007 08:20 PM

On myelin
 
A myelinated nerve has a myelin sheath. It is made that way. An unmyelinated nerve is a small fiber nerve. Multiple Sclerosis, for example is a disease where the myelin sheath deteriorates. For a myelinated nerve to function properly, it needs the myelin sheath, that is what helps conduct electricity. Once demyelinated, they seldom ever myelinate again, I won't say never. Some small nerve fibers are myelinated, but most are not....they are simply unmyelinated fibers...never had myelin, never will.


Small fiber nerves innervate absolutely every millimeter of your body. Your autonomic nervous system is predominantly small fiber nerves, and your sensory nervous system is a lot of small fibers too.

When sensory nerves are damaged, they send inappropriate signals to the brain to interpret. They are broken and therefore send the wrong message...such as, pain, when you are not hurt, or numbness or nothing when you are badly hurt, or tingling just for the hell of it.

They also may make your blood vessels contract or dilate inappropriately to heat or cold. They may make you not sense heat or cold properly.

The other thing about small fibers is they control heart rate. If you need to have more blood to the brain they are supposed to increase your pulse. If they are damaged, they don't do this properly. The small fibers also control blood vessels as I said, and generally this works in tandem with your heart rate....special receptors sense your position or exertion level, or heart rate and increase or decrease your pulse accordingly. For example, fluid drops to your feet when you stand and in a properly functioning human, your veins construct and employ strategies to return blood up against gravity. For some one who has small fibers that do not function properly, they can have lethal arrhythmias, or fatal drops in blood pressure. Management of blood pressure and heart rate become very serious issues for people afflicted with this kind of neuropathy. Some people get high blood pressure when they lay down and when they get up, it drops precipitously and they feel like passing out. It has to be managed with medications and fluids. Often times, these individuals get excruciating headaches, as they do not get enough blood to the head and neck. Often times they feel like they will pass out. It feels like the gravity on Jupiter would feel.

They almost always have sensory neuropathy as well.

Often times, these people have no or little innervation of sweat glands, or they don't feel heat and henceforth do not sweat or their blood vessels do not dilate to disappate heat.

Small fibers innervate your stomach. Damaged fibers-no stomach movement, food sits in there for hours---also transit time in your intestine is delayed. The result can be horrible constipation and vomitting, and of course the ever present sensation that one is going to puke. Some people can only eat frequent, small liquid meals. Because their stomach feels full, they don't like to drink enough, and they can overheat, or get hypovolemia.

As of yet, small fibers have not been known to regenerate. I think, and this is my personal opinion, that exercising them helps get blood flow to them, however, this is not going to stop the process of degeneration as far as I know. Some people do not know why they have this condition despite all testing. Good nutrition is probably helpful too. It probably is good to remove any offending possibility if you can. If I had any inkling of what causes my PN, I would control it. I don't know, so I can't do much to stop it. So I do what doctors advise healthy people to do, exercise and eat right.

It is theorized that barometric pressure can cause pain, but they don't know why. People with pain problems do best in climates with fewer weather fronts and dryer, sunnier weather.

MelodyL 05-10-2007 11:09 PM

That's it then, I'm moving to Tahiti!!!!

Get my sarong ready!!!!

Melody

Brian 05-11-2007 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nide44 (Post 97635)
Brian,
I don't know enough, either - Im no scientist, but I'm an old salt.
Sailed for years. Sailed sloops and yawls. From 25 to 50 feet. Marconi rig, Fractured rig, single & double headsail, aft cockpits, center cockpits. Sailed the Irish Sea, sailed the Atlantic coast, sailed the Chesapeake Bay (my home waters) -but I don't sail anymore. Afraid I'd fall overboard cause my balance is all screwed up. Miss it, terribly.
But I do know that as a sailor, I'd watch the barometer for changing weather. Drops in millibars always made my feet hurt. Drops in millibars means there's a change coming, a front is moving in..... I'd watch out for changing weather- anything from a summer thunderstorm to something BIG! (Big drop-FAST!)
My feet stared telling me of barometer changes almost before the
barometer did. I'd check the barometer if my feet started aching in a special way.
Sometimes it meant nothing (PN is screwy that way), but it was
an even 50/50 shot that there was a change on the way.
That's all I can say.
Barometer rising, means fair weather (It says so, right on the instrument. Gives you a section for ....fair, change, & foul weather.........right on the dial.)
I was used to an almost unconscious habit of checking the chrono,
the barometer, and my compass headings- all the time - a habit.
I've made an analogy, for me. I'm just passing it along.
I don't need to check the barometer anymore, my feet tell me
if there's gonna be a change in the weather.
Get yourself an inexpensive (not cheap) wall barometer (not a digital) for your house, and see if it affects you the same way.......... It might.

(BTW - Travel by airplane doesn't seem to help my feet,
it makes them worse!)

Bob, we have got one of those long wall clocks that has a Barometer underneath the clock itself, iv'e never really payed much attention to it, but i can see now how usefull this instrument would be to a person that travels the seas.
I won't be able to do any tests with the barometer, because i don't get any PN symptoms anymore, only once in a blue moon i might get a very, very slight burn, thats all, thank god.
I am intrigued with earth's natural forces as i am with how magnetic fields can reduce severe pain [when used properly] i really do think the scientist's haven't even touched first base yet on a lot of this type of stuff yet.
I hope one day you will be able to sail again.
all the best
Brian

glenntaj 05-11-2007 08:06 AM

Small nerve fibers can regenerate--
 
--if the cause of their degeneration is removed or at least mitigated. The rate is very slow, though--most sources list a rate of axonal re-growth at approximately 1mm/day under optimal conditions (meaning it might take years for some axons that start near the lower spine and extend to the toes). The growth cone fibers have to fight around and through other tissue to "hit" their targets, and there's no guarantee they will hit the original targets or wind up in the same place as before; genreally the patten of regeneration will not resemble the original enervation pattern. And, as this process occurs, one can have all sorts of bizarre sensations that may lead one to think one's neuropathy is getting worse, not better--the difference is usually apparent only in long-term retrospect.

I am an example of axonal regeneration; my acute onset full-body burning neuropathy--still officially "idiopathic", but with high suspicion of an autoimmune molecular-mimicry process--began on April 12, 2003. A skin biopsy on Jul 24, 2003 confirmed major destruction to the smaller nerve fibers, though my larger, myelinated ones, as measured by nerve conduction studies/EMG's, seemed intact. At the time, I had been reduced to 2% of normal intraepidermal fiber density. My neuropathic process seems to have been monophasic, though--a subsequent skin biopsy in November 2005 showed I had recovered to 11% of normal nerve fiber density (and my nerves were in much better shape, with much less swelling and excessive branching, both characteristic of small-fiber neuropathies). As a subject being followed by the Cornell-Weill Center for Peripheral Neuropathy, I will probably get another skin biopsy in about a year to see where the numbers then lie.

I have, overall, experienced fewer symptoms as time has gone by, though I am still prone to sudden "flares" of neural pain, and I am far more prone to compressive nerve effects than most "normal" people. I am currently dealing with a C5/C6 right radiculopathy that may be related to my tendency to compressive forces.

I am fortunate that I have evidence of nerve regeneration, and that a reduction in burning pain symptoms has come with it. Nevertheless, I am not asymptomatic, and cannot expect full nerve regeneration to average levels, according to most of the literature, which tends to rather hazily proclaim "slow, partial recovery". Part of the reason I am being followed is that researchers at Cornell-Weill are interested to see just how much regeneration I get over time. I have indicated that my supplement regimen probably deserves some credit for optimizing the conditions for such regeneration.

HeyJoe 05-11-2007 08:31 AM

You are more of a comfort and inspiration to many than you realize.

Brian 05-11-2007 09:00 AM

Oh yeah, absolutely with no doubt at all, the small nerves can & do regenerate & my neuro said the larger nerves do regenerate as well, once they are in the right environment, but it all takes time.


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