That's how hemp oil is extracted, and made atomizable for the delivery method. (See links below)

You're concerned about liquid CO2? Ethanol is the alcohol in liquor. I won't get into a debate about propylene glycol; I'll just point out that it's probably in more products you're already using than you realize. Anyone who uses an e-cigarette type vaporizor as a delivery method is going to be breathing ethanol and propylene glycol (which is one of my issues with the cussed things, but that's not what we're talking about).

The Uses of Propylene Glycol in Daily Life

If they bother you, be sure to find out how any hemp oil you get is "derived"/extracted.

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Medical-Marijuana-Oil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZXGH6mYr3Y

And how do these methods test/ensure purity and potency, and deliver measured dosage?

I've yet to see that with ANY "natural" MMJ products, and that's my point. Doctors are used to medications they can prescribe precisely.

You should realize by now from my previous posts, I'm not the opposition here.

Doc

My primary issue with Sativex is that the cost prevents it from reaching many who could benefit from it. That's a hard one to get around for most people! I do support its use for the benefits which only continue to show promise in studies. The bigger problem for many however is cost and access and it is important to know there are affordable alternatives that provide the same benefit for those who have access to them.

The products are measured in milligrams, similar to prescription drugs and just like prescription drugs, a patient adjusts the dosage based on their pain status.

I know.

Ok, we're missing a connection here; that doesn't answer the questions of "How?" or address the issues of purity/potency. At this time, they can print pretty much ANYTHING they like on the labels; nothing is yet regulated/standardized, and with "natural products" they aren't required to specify everything that's in a product (goes to purity), much less how much. Along with the higher competition that lowers prices (this is still a "for-profit" business for the most part) comes cost-cutting measures and corner-cutting. Where, and on/with what? Who's watchdogging? (That may change soon, but it's not here yet, and has a way to go—see NPR link below)

It's not like prescription drugs at all. With prescription drugs—pain medications in particular—patients don't generally adjust their own dosage—doctors do, based on accumulated knowledge & experience that isn't yet available with MM.

Putting all that together, there's a lot to question/be skeptical about, especially when the image the industry portrays is one like this:
http://www.caregiverscup.com/
Their hearts may be in the right places, but would you buy medicine from—and/or trust your health to—this image? Are you?

These questions/issues were recently the subject of an NPR report (among others).
Marijuana-Laced Treats Leave Colorado Jonesing For Food-Safety Rules

I think they concern many doctors as well.

Doc

I agree with everything you said. There is no real regulation, and just who will be the ones to examine potency and all the rest of the issues?. My plan would be to avoid the whole industry, get seed and grow my own. It has been around since ancient times. 6 brothers out in Colorado have strains missing THC, and I have a vaporizer. I would try to contact their business out there. All depends on this states legal status come Nov. I won't stay here in this state, if it should not pass. I am too old to wait around while they get their act together. Too old for jail too! This has worked for me, and I avoid the opiates and other anti inflamitory drugs. My kidneys show signs of an elevated component as of this last month. So I was taken off all medications now for the sake of my kidneys. Now what do I do when my joints are the size of easter eggs? I am really stuck now, not being able to take the pharmacy given drugs I need. I really ache now, and am rather ticked off about it too! Pain is awful to live with for all of us. Maybe go back to Jamaica, sell my house, rent it out, I just don't know. ginnie

Many people are doing that here.

The Stanley brothers developed the high CBD strain called Charlotte's Web that has helped so many people. Not sure if I can post the link but if you look up Realm of Caring in Colorado Springs, you can check out their website.

I am really sorry to hear about your kidneys Ginnie. Hang in there!

Thanks Beatle. Yes the kidneys are showing some stress. I am off all meds. at this point other than blood pressure. I am going to have to do something for pain and the PN. This is crazy, can't take the meds. and there seems to be no option. Maybe I could handle the pain if it were just in one place, but it isn't. It is in many of my joints. Having a regular hissy fit right now and plan to soak in the tub and sulk. Glad I have you and doc and this gang on NT to vent to. Jamaica sounds real good about now. ginnie

John Vibes
May 20, 2014

According to statistics recently released by the government in Denver, the amount of robberies and violent crimes significantly decreased since marijuana legalization went into effect. It is important to mention that this strong correlation is not definitive proof that legalization is the cause of this drop in crime, but it does strongly suggest that this is the case.

These statistics are especially convincing considering the short amount of time that this drastic reduction in crime has taken place. In just one short year the number of homicides dropped by 52.9%. Sexual assaults were reduced by 13.6%. Robberies were down by 4.8% and assaults were down by 3.7%.

The statistics measured the first few months of the year for both 2013 and 2014, and then compared those numbers with one another to determine whether they were higher or lower after legalization went into effect.

There are many different factors contributing to this drop in crime, and it is likely that marijuana legalization is a very big piece of the puzzle. Legalization has had a profound impact on local economies, and has created a large boom in new residents who have moved to the area to flee persecution. This increase in prosperity surely has some effect on the amount of robberies and burglaries that have taken place.

Additionally, marijuana is traditionally known to mellow people out and calm them down, making them far less likely to act out in anger or plan a murder.

One final possibility that comes to mind is the fact that possibly, police resources are being diverted towards serious crimes instead of nonviolent offenses. Unfortunately, they are still writing plenty of fines and locking up plenty of people for nonviolent offenses, but marijuana smokers and traders have been one of the largest group of persecuted nonviolent offenders for a very long time.

See the UCR Citywide Report


Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/den...FX3pj3HAxcV.99

The above is copied and pasted from a page sent by friend in Denver where I lived over two decades. Thought you all might find it of interest.

Ginnie, has your doctor offered any alternatives for the NP such as something topical? Untreated PN is barbaric!

How are doses measured? I am a consumer, an end user. You would need to contact these companies directly for the details on that. Same goes with any vitamin on the market. How can you really be sure you are getting 10MG? I can say that the CBD dose that I take seems to be consistent and relieves my NP.

Yes, as with most things. And just as natural products are not regulated by the FDA, neither is MMJ. I think that has already been established. It is up to the patient to make their own best-informed decisions for all matters regarding their care.

If your neuropathy is consistent, then you may not adjust your dosages but many others experience frequent flair-ups, waxing and waning and completely inconsistent if not erratic symptoms that are all over the board. And we keep an arsenal of weapons for break-thru pain and yes we do adjust medication dosages accordingly.

I do not know who those people are but from the article, it appears they grow a strain that is effective for nausea. Good for them! If I suffered from extreme nausea and tried every drug without success, why wouldn't I try their strain of MMJ? Because the growers look like potheads?

Also of concern to doctors: http://www.thestarpress.com/article/...WS06/140520011

Fortunately, the overdose from a pot brownie would be along the lines of a long nap whereas prescription overdoses frequently result in death.

I am not a doctor, grower or caregiver. I am a sufferer of PN who has tried everything under the sun with the potential to help and out of nothing less that absolute desperation, I tried CBD and it gave me my life back. Ultimately, we all have to make our own best decisions and take responsibility for our own care.

The original question was how "natural" MMJ products establish dosage and ensure purity & potency. Were I an consumer/end user (which I might be were it legal here), these questions might be important to me, as they are with supplements now. But we're not talking about supplements here; we're talking about medicine—which is (otherwise) held to much higher standards and regulation—which would (and should) make these questions even more important to me. I really don't want to be ingesting things that aren't what they claim to be, or may contain toxic contaminents. (If it's in the plant material, chances are it's in the oil extracted from the plant material.) There are certain brands/kinds of supplements I won't touch for some of these same reasons; why would I give MMJ products a pass?

Straw man responses aside, I don't think we're on the same page. I've been bringing up observations & questions I see as obstacles to MMJ being both legalized and accepted as medicine, including acceptance and coverage by medical insurance.

The cost of Sativex (or Marinol) today is a valid point, but all medications are expensive during patent. That patent has a limited life, after which it will be available generically, at greatly reduced cost. Cost may drop sooner if/when the political situation changes and competition enters the market. I'm not really worried about purity, potency, or dosage in regulated medicines.

I see enormous potential in the medical uses of compounds found in cannabis, but (as previously stated) we've lost ~80 years of valuable research time. Most research done thus far has been with the two most common of these compounds—THC & CBD—yet there are at least 83 more that may have significant roles to play that we know little or nothing about yet; some may have or enhance therapeutic value (e.g. CBC), and some may hamper or counter it—we don't know yet—we have a lot of catching up to do.

Medical and recreational proponents alike claim that combinations of both CBD & THC are/work better than either compound individually. Sativex contains both at an ~1:1 ratio.
To those who would cultivate their own, the same article explains why it's not as simple as obtaining and growing seeds from some particular strain. There is also some question (sources differ) about practical limits (# of generations, potency) of "cloning".

I can see a day when we will go to our doctor for some complaint, and s/he'll be able to write us a prescription for a cannabinoid medication specifically formulated for what ails us, without (as significant) risk of adverse effect. I have the same vision for rainforest plants—if we're not so foolish as to lose them all to deforestation first.

In the meantime, while MMJ has therapeutic value and advantages over many Big Pharma alternatives, it still has the same trial & error methodology to find what works, and is not without downside. It's kind of like using opium poppies or raw opium, or ingesting mold (for antibiotics). Sometimes a little refinement can be a good thing.

I couldn't agree more that we all have to make our own best decisions and take responsibility for our own care, but I believe that the best decisions are made by discussing/examining/presenting the broader picture and asking/raising the tough questions.

You have my interest, support, and gratitude, and I'm thrilled that it's giving you your life back. I envy you that I cannot try it myself, but if/when I can, I think I will still approach it with caveat emptor in mind.

Doc