[Geraldine]

Hi all, I'm sorry I haven't been back to the forum in a while. I was having some blood tests so I stopped my vitamins. And I started to feel better.

I have noticed this for the past 3 years. Only now am I really thinking it is a connection. I remember numerous times sitting outside in the front yard telling my husband that I had stopped my vitamins (whole food supplements, vitamin Bs or magnesium w/added B6) and that every time I stopped I started to feel better. At some point I would think I was being stupid or really needed these supplements because I have so much body pain... diagnosed as autoimmune and fibromyalgia... so of course I must need these supplements! I would start them again. And a couple of months later, stop... because I wasn't feeling good. Well, this has happened again. I stopped my vitamins and supplements a couple months ago for complete blood testing, including vit B12 and vit B6. I got a call from the lab, and of course they LOST my blood sample for the B6 so I had to go in again. So I received all my tests for everything except the B6.

As I was waiting, my neuropathy was getting better. I wasn't cold or numb all the time. My toes improved (but did not go back to normal - freakish reddish toenail outline and pain). Then, a couple weeks ago, I started some multi vitamin B and some folic acid. Plus vit C, my MOUTH had started to get sore. And my tongue is sore at night. Feels like I have sores, but don't see them. It is mostly underneath my tongue. After taking these vitamins for only a couple of days, my*feet started getting worse. Worse around the toenails and NUMB starting again. How can the vitamin that supposedly is water soluble and flushes out if you don't need it cause this? I was going to buy vitamins online but I can't figure out these symptoms. Worse when I take vitamins, better when I don't. Yet I have these issues that would make taking vitamins make sense.

Do you have any suggestions? I was thinking it was vitamin B6. And my B12 test came back normal. Could I have some weird problem with these? Is that possible?

On a side note, I have talked to my doctors about vitamins, and I get the same answers mostly... don't worry about taking too much. Or... your tests are fine. You don't need anything. Or... you don't need magnesium if you have a good diet. To which I always want to reply... but most US diets are not necessarily GOOD anymore. I do not believe I eat the right things, however, allergy dieting has not shown any improvements.

So can someone absorb too much B6 without taking the supplements? Can someone have a deficiency where they can't absorb it properly? This is so weird, and even the whole foods store owners keep telling me to take these vitamins with B6 in them.

[mrsD]

Some people cannot activate pyridoxine to pyridoxal in the body.
So the pyridoxine builds up.

The same goes for folic acid. The error for folate is called MTHFR polymorphism. There is considerable folic acid in foods today in the US. Fortified foods. And there are some papers out there now, describing how synthetic folic acid my block the activity of natural folates at the blood brain barrier. Karsten sent me this paper about that:
http://www.ajcn.org/content/87/3/517.long

Too much Vit C can cause increased acid in the blood, but this is temporary for the most part. Using an Ester C avoids that.
But Vit C is necessary for good gums and oral mucosa health.

People can all vary considerably metabolically depending on their genetics.

If vitamins bother you in some way, I'd take that as a sign to not use any. You can get your magnesium by soaking in epsom salts or using a lotion containing magnesium.

Did your doctor tell you the numbers for the B12? or just "normal"? I'd get the numbers if you don't have them. Very low levels show up "normal" on the old lab ranges in US still.
You should be at 400 at least, and preferably higher.

[Sallysblooms]

Vit B6 can cause neuropathy. I have problems with too much of that vit. so I am very careful with that but the others are great. B12, and Benfotiamine Fat/water soluble b1) are great.

[ger715]

Originally Posted by Sallysblooms

Vit B6 can cause neuropathy. I have problems with too much of that vit. so I am very careful with that but the others are great. B12, and Benfotiamine Fat/water soluble b1) are great.

I have been taking the methyl B12, as well as Benfotiamine. I had purchased the Vit B6 about the same time; but had read some things that cause concern, so I did not take them.

I had my B12 tested August, 2011, as well as my B6. The range for the B12 was 211 -946. My results were 922. My B6 has a range of 2.0 - 32.8. My results were 54.1. After seeing, I was high in the B6, really made up my mind not to take any Vit. B6.

Appriciate your mentioning Vit B6 may cause neuropathy. Don't know if this has anything to do with my case because I also had spine fusion/laminectomy 5 1/2 years ago. Associated that as the probable cause since things were bad and then the burning did become worse after Bladder surgery and taking the antibiotic Levaquin 500 mg's for 14 days.

Regardless, glad I decided not to take the Vit B6.

Gerry

[Sallysblooms]

I think Levequin was a problem for me too.

B6 is needed, but not too much or it can cause problems.

[glenntaj]

--though sporadic--of neuropathic symptoms resulting from too much B6 in the serum (referred to as pyridoxine intoxication). Usually, these have occurred in those who have really megadosed--on the order of 200mg up to a gram each day.

As Mrs. D notes, though, this seems to be associated with a genetic inability to chemically reduce pyridoxine to the active pyridoxal form. This genetic profile seems to be associated more with certain other conditions (autism for one), although certainly no causality has been established yet. For those who suspect this, taking the already activated P-5-P form of B6 seems to help; to my knowledge, there have been no reports of these symptoms on large doses of P-5-P.

The Useful Websites section of our Vitamins/Minerals/Supplements Board has a significant section about this:

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread30724.html

[ger715]

Originally Posted by mrsD

Some people cannot activate pyridoxine to pyridoxal in the body.
So the pyridoxine builds up.

The same goes for folic acid. The error for folate is called MTHFR polymorphism. There is considerable folic acid in foods today in the US. Fortified foods. And there are some papers out there now, describing how synthetic folic acid my block the activity of natural folates at the blood brain barrier. Karsten sent me this paper about that:
http://www.ajcn.org/content/87/3/517.long

Too much Vit C can cause increased acid in the blood, but this is temporary for the most part. Using an Ester C avoids that.
But Vit C is necessary for good gums and oral mucosa health.

People can all vary considerably metabolically depending on their genetics.

If vitamins bother you in some way, I'd take that as a sign to not use any. You can get your magnesium by soaking in epsom salts or using a lotion containing magnesium.

Did your doctor tell you the numbers for the B12? or just "normal"? I'd get the numbers if you don't have them. Very low levels show up "normal" on the old lab ranges in US still.
You should be at 400 at least, and preferably higher.

I read thru much of the thread Glenn had suggested. I noticed you mentioned drinking Kefir. Would you please explain what this drink does and the benefits?
Thank you,
Gerry