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Quote:

Originally Posted by rose (Post 124890)

From my site:

From the history you copied to your site:

Karen Wrote:

Karen,

The writing you have copied to your site states clearly that the belief was that anemia always occurred when B12 deficiency was present.

I did not say it was the only cause of B12 malabsorption or B12 deficiency. True pernicious anemia is lack of intrinsic factor (not an anemia as was thought in the 18th century).

Also copied to your site:

In the section of my site you quote, I am addressing "pernicious anemia" and making the same point as above.

The reason I have spent so much time and energy addressing the problem is that many medical reference materials (thus most doctors) still believe that anemia must be present if a patient is B12 deficient. This is terribly dangerous, because many of us do not have large cells when deficient.

The large cells are not the problem. The large cells are the way most people become diagnosed and get treatment.

Those who do not have large cells are at terrible risk of not being diagnosed and treated.

Iron deficiency is common in people who malabsorb B12, and iron deficiency can make cells smaller. When the two exist together, cells can be normal sized or even small.

Folic acid can normalize the size of cells, and thus the sign a doctor might recognize is not present, but the B12 deficiency still is, and the damage continues.

If you had any understanding of the B12 issue you would know this and more.

Karen:

Here is just one very good source, Karen:

Goldman: Cecil Textbook of Medicine, 22nd ed., page 1056

"Several clinical studies document that a normal hematocrit and/or mean cell volume occur in at least 25 to 50% of patients whose neuropsychiatric abnormalities are caused by cobalamin deficiency and respond partially or completely to cobalamin therapy."

rose

your very respectable quote doesn't mention "pernicious anemia"

and I think you have two posts with this quote...

I'm sorry you're so upset. I hope you can calm down. :)

That is not my point. I don't know where you copied it from. Whoever wrote it, or anything else, should have the opportunity to give or deny permission for it to be used. That's copyright law.

Beyond that, it is important for people to know where information comes from.

rose

Maybe this will clarify for you:

Quote:

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20030301/979.html

From the American Family Physician:

In a large study10 of 406 patients with known vitamin B12 deficiency, 98.4 percent had elevated serum methylmalonic acid levels, and 95.9 percent had elevated serum homocysteine levels (defined as three standard deviations above the mean). Only one patient out of 406 had normal levels of both metabolites, resulting in a sensitivity of 99.8 percent when methylmalonic acid and homocysteine levels are used for diagnosis. Interestingly, 28 percent of the patients in this study had normal hematocrit levels, and 17 percent had normal mean corpuscular volumes.

In another study13 of patients with known pernicious anemia who had not received maintenance vitamin B12 injections for months to years, the rise of methylmalonic acid and homocysteine levels was found to precede the decrease in serum vitamin B12 and the decline in hematocrit. This finding suggests that methylmalonic acid and homocysteine levels can be early markers for tissue vitamin B12 deficiency, even before hematologic manifestations occur

[bolding added by rose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rose (Post 124896)

Okay, so are you happy now?

My point is that information should be disseminated. That's what the web allows for.

Just show me were the majority of sites explain each sentence ...

They don't.

a lot of information is or should be general knowledge.

For instance, I recently read a part of The Status Syndrome by ... I forget his name.

The idea that people who work for themselves live longer probably comes from that book and his research... but who in common parlance attributes to him the source of their reference to his work?

It's vulgar language. Language of the people.

I'm obviously a bit more vulgar than you... :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Heritage Dictionary

vul·gar adj. 1. Of or associated with the great masses of people; common. 2. Abbr. vulg. Spoken by or expressed in language spoken by the common people; vernacular: the technical and vulgar names for an animal species.

Now it's all out there. People can decide for themselves.

rose

Quote:

Originally Posted by rose (Post 124904)

Now it's all out there. People can decide for themselves.

rose

Oh, I'm sooooo excited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whew!

:)