NeuroTalk Support Groups

NeuroTalk Support Groups (https://www.neurotalk.org/)

- Peripheral Neuropathy (https://www.neurotalk.org/peripheral-neuropathy/)

- - Pirenzepine (https://www.neurotalk.org/peripheral-neuropathy/253088-pirenzepine.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happytobehere (Post 1278709)

I found through a google search websites offering pirenzepine but in hydrochloride form not in dihydrochloride form that seems to be the form most of the studies are based on.

I doubt this will matter. The active species is pirenzepine; whether it comes as the hydrochloride or the dihydrochloride should not make a difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happytobehere (Post 1278587)

Thank you so much for your sensible reply. I had also heard of the dementia risk and I'm more than willing to take the risk because it also might no cause dementia so again thanks for your sensible reply. A doctor had prescribed oxybutynin 5mg oral dosage but at a little over 4 weeks my feet began to swell, I quit for a few days and my swelled feet went down I then tried 1/2 of the 5mg pill but again after a few more weeks my feet again swelled badly. I think trans dermal is suppose to side step some of the swelling while applying the medicine directly to the effected nerves for better repair of the nerves but I would need a trans dermal gel for that. That's why I was asking about trans dermal delivery. Does anyone think trans dermal will sidestep the swelling feet problem? Also I've found an online supplier for pirenzepine but Its hard to trust foreign pharmaceutical suppliers. I'm not so much afraid of the medicine not being the correct medicine as much as I am afraid of them simply taking the money and just not sending anything therefore costing more time in getting relief and I read some where that the closer to the onset of the neuropathy the medicine is applied the better the chances the medicine will work, I don't know if this is true or not. perhaps others here may know more about this. I have used aldaychemist (an india based company) with great success for other needs but they don't carry pirenzepine. It would be of great help if anyone knows of a legit foreign supplier of pirenzepine. Its not on any US banned list or anything so it shouldn't be a problem. And I might mention that towards the end of the 6 to 7 weeks total I used the oxybutynin my fingers started getting a very slight electrical sensation to touch where before there was no sensation at all so I know this stuff does do something. Sorry for the long post but thanks again for an encouraging reply and also thanks for your and everyone else's time in reading this.

Trandermal delivery of oxybutynin ends up in your blood stream. The oxybutnin patch is to treat bladder spasms. The only way to treat the spasms is to get the medication into your blood stream. Consequently, the oxybutynin medication can get to areas of your body where there is no direct application of a gel or a patch.

Two other examples of transdermal delivery systems are smoking patches (to deliver nicotine) and the contraceptive patch ( to deliver contraceptive medication).

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhw69 (Post 1277971)

You should be looking for Oxytrol. It is a transdermal patch used for bladder spasms. I am trying it right now with interesting results. I have less numbness / improved sensation in numb area of feet, more skin wrinkling in water with my hands ( improvement in autonomic neuropathy), more tingling in neuropathic areas (maybe Tinel's sign for regenerating axons).

It is a bit of a mixed bag though because I still experience stinging pains and the electrical pains. However, I just read a paper that said that these pains occur with regenerating axons because of changes in the number of sodium channels. The issue appears that continuous neuropathic pain is an ongoing regeneration process that never succeeds in fully reinnervating the tissue. Ironically enough the people who just develop numbness without pain have a less healthy peripheral nervous system because no regeneration is going on. They just lose nerves and go totally numb. The people who have pain going on have regeneration happening but the regeneration is overwhelmed by the neuropathic disease process. Some researchers are trying out drugs to turn off the regeneration process to bring relief to people with pain where there is no hope for successful regeneration. Personally, I would be reluctant to use it.

I know it's only been a short time since this comment but do you still think the oxytrol transdermal patch is working for you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoMiS499 (Post 1279003)

I know it's only been a short time since this comment but do you still think the oxytrol transdermal patch is working for you?

I do think that it is helping me but it is pretty subjective at this point. I feel like I am regaining sensation in my toes. I have had a definite change in the types of symptoms that I experience. I get more itching and tingling than I have had in the past and these can be signs of nerve regeneration (Tinel's sign). I also seem to get more skin wrinkling in water which is a good sign. The only way to figure out if this is happening is to look back retrospectively and see where you have been and where you are. Hit me up a few months from now and ask me again. I suspect that I will have a better answer then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoMiS499 (Post 1279003)

I know it's only been a short time since this comment but do you still think the oxytrol transdermal patch is working for you?

Here is some of the research that I looked at for oxybutynin. I chose it because of this research and the fact that it is available over the counter (OTC).

Muscarinic Receptor Antagonist Improves Nerve Fiber Function in Subjects with Type 2 Diabetes and Peripheral Neuropathy | Diabetes

A 6�-YEAR-OLD WOMAN WITH SMALL FIBER PERIPHERAL NEUROPATHY RECOVERY ON OXYBUTYNIN - ProQuest

Selective antagonism of muscarinic receptors is neuroprotective in peripheral neuropathy. - PubMed - NCBI

Does anyone know if Pirenzepine is on a schedule controlled list in the US? I'm asking because I've noticed an irregularity in the normal path my packages takes just before arriving (its almost to my front door) when using the tracking number I was given. I've never seen a package take this path before. I've googled every possible way I could such as "Is Pirenzepine a schedule controlled substance" with no results saying it is. Anyone know? Thanks in advance for any and all info.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happytobehere (Post 1279145)

Is it sent to you (I presume, in the US?) by a non-US pharmacy? It's not a DEA scheduled drug, but it's also not listed as approved by the FDA. (So it's not available from US pharmacies.) Almost all drugs approved for use in the US are listed in the "Orange Book" (Orange Book: Approved Drug Products with Therapeutic Equivalence Evaluations).

A listing of scheduled drugs can be found at Drug Scheduling. (Interesting that the list includes Lyrica/pregabilin, but not gabapentin, even though--I'm told--they act on the same exact receptor.) Pirenzepine is not on that list.

Sorry this site won't let me post actual links yet but you can get the ideal of which site it is from this. ** and received Pirenzepine but still made my feet swell. So I guess I'm screwed with getting the use from this. unless the gel might work a little different.

I guess there are many of us interested in this. Just diagnosed with SFPN (small fiber peripheral neuropathy). Some toe, balls of feet numbness, slight burning and the shock thing.

I've ordered the 25mg pirenzepine tablets from an overseas pharmacy and will be trialing this shortly myself.

I'll keep you posted.

Note that a person on reddit did this too and good results. 25mg a day, slight stomach discomfort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happytobehere (Post 1279620)

Any thoughts on making your own topical med from your pirenzepine?

If you search reddit for pirenzepine you'll read another story of an SFN sufferer who reversed many of their symptoms.