ok i never thought i would be responding to a breast implant thread but.....it is not just with implants that what to some people seems like there should be an obvious definite connection made between cause and effect, but is not yet accepted by the medical and scientific community. It takes years and years, sometimes decades of controlled studies of people thus affected and those not affected and other possible causes ruled out before a cause is accepted by the scientific community. Other suspected causes of PN such as quinolone antibiotics, statins and many others that are discussed here are not yet accepted scientifically as causes of PN. Even with accepted causes there are many in the medical community who will not draw a connection between a cause and a particular person unless it is something medically evident such as diabetes or chemotherapy. Toxins are an accepted cause of PN but not many doctors will make the connection between particular toxins and you the person who has pn, even if you were exposed.

I also have come to believe that you and I could be in the same place at the same time have the same exposure but have significantly different medical outcomes. Just as people respond differently to the same treatments, i think that people are not affected in the same way with exposures.

I also realize that there is a ton of money involved in these suspected causes and that the waters are muddied purposefully to make the connection controversial. Many doctors and scientists who conduct studies are bought and paid for by those whose interests the studies would affect.

even tho you are still sick...I was hoping you'd be better by now.. Not fun at all! Yes! Joe, those toxins and treatments for same are two-edged swords aren't they?
As all here have read, via the 'stickies' at the top of this forum's page or thru all posts...OR doing a forum search on the 'top blue bar'... Implants have lots of impact and implications for whatever reason on either immune or neuropathy issues.. What has been escaping me tho has been Undecided's and BethTaylors' posts with out any relationship to those Neuropathy issues. It somehow seems as if we are a vehicle for some other previous conversation from other place?
...Or to the issues relating to Breast Cancers...If one has gone thru various chemo or rad's treatments, well some PN is to be expected...IF it somes as a surprise, blast out your docs, goodness knows THEY should know a heck of a sight better-that you were not informed: shame on them and on you for not learning from other sources!..But, to wrestle out the pros and/or cons of implants here on the PN boards may not...exactly be the right place or forum for your discussions. Do your homework! IF you need resources, please contact me via PM...I've a whole slew of them!
Goodness knows I am/have been the most sympathetic of people to those who experience neuropathies due to chemo and rads...Tho I was lucky to escape both 'therapies', I did go thru the whole diagnostic and surgery route[angst and all], and have Good friends and family who have done the whole spectrum as well.. I think that the question here in relation to the answer really being sought is lost here somewhere....Without basic context of info regarding the need or desire for the implant...and if it's cancer related all have bearing on whether to 'do it' or not...I find basic context lacking here. I mean no offense, far from it....I just cannot comment and refer to good resources that could be useful on such limited informations. Maybe this should be addressed under the BC/other cancers forums? - I feel useless about this all anymore. - j

dahlek, I currently am suffering from peripheral neuropathy. I also showed problems when I had a VEP test. I'm not sure what more you want me to say.

I ran into this forum and saw a thread regarding breast implants. What I am trying to say is that YES, I've had breast implants and because of those implants, I now suffer from neuropathy problems.

I'm not saying that everyone with implants will get sick but many do. I am saying that perhaps some of the people on this forum that are sick might be sick because of their implants.

If I am not welcome on a forum because I had implants and now have peripheral neuropathy then what i see is a forum that will only help people if they don't have any negative things to say about implants and/or questions regarding them and the possibility of implants causing neuropathy.

I was perfectly healthy until I had breast augmentation. I'm only throwing all possible reasons for these problems on the table.

It is sad to think that someone can not think outside the box. I joined to answer a question and that is all. I guess that undecided is not welcome here as well. Implants can and do cause neuropathy problems. I'm living proof of that.

I run a forum to help people and I surely don't turn anyone away because they join and say that they are not sure what has caused their problems and ask questions that might be in your opinion unrelated to the forum.

I did not mean, in any way or form to 'blast' you for any of your opinions.. far from it. I simply did not know of, or have any clue about your prior circumstances regarding how you came to your current opinions. You have been very brave and astute in the 'putting it out there'!
We all arrive here from a variety of circumstances. In my case it was the development of an auto-immune disease following an pneumonia attack that lasted months. IN the years following that, the long road to a diagnosis and subsequent therapy was a long and painful one. Never during the process nor after, was the cancer issue raised, nor was any 'cancer' testing done until the initial diagnosis of cancer. The point I mean to make here is that...testing isn't done...unless the docs beleive there IS a connection....Hindsight, being why not? and the whole IF ONLY scenario just doesn't do any good.
I can and DO think outside the box...daily. I just wish all my docs did? IF you read my plethora of posts trying to help others, as well as myself, you would learn that. I do try to find answers, even if there aren't any, if they can be found, because...in those answers, there mite be one clue for me!
As for Implants, I did heaps and heaps of research, got lots of feed back from all sorts regarding my own implant circumstances and went the way I did after all the reading to the point my mind was overcluttered with FACTS, with that heap of opinions that colored and put dimension to my OWN decision. I have stated in many posts that my implant decision was a 'practical' one...being that those few key ounces of weight in that key place was throwing my already compromised balance off soo much, that it HAD to be remedied. Please do a member search of my posts of March-July '06 and you will see what all I'd searched and went thru..
I also suggest that you use that 'search' bar at the top and look up 'Lizajane' and see that her opinons, are different from mine.. Different opinions are what make a community. What I have found tho is that your opinion appears to be formed, mine, believe it or not is not yet formed...the medical and practial jury still seems to be 'out' on the whole issue. I realize that many feel the jury is IN to one way or the other....but I'm not seeing HEAPS one way or the other, aside from what LizaJane's put forth...and definitely nothing new. I have a definite self-preservation desire to keep up on this stuff...and believe me I do! Much respect - j

I just ran into one of LizaJane's posts.

I did misread your post. I guess that I'm so used to people arguing with me that implants are safe, I just assumed you were as well. This is a very difficult topic.

I do believe that anything made from silicone can possibly make you ill. I have met people that have had implants for years and seem fine and have met women that have only had them for a few months and are sick. We are all different and I think alot of us have pre-genetic factors that cause our illnesses and implants really help that along. Any and all toxins can help that along.

I've been researching this for 3 years and I have to tell you that I do not believe the studies. What I believe is the women and how they come to me with the same damn symptoms time and time again. Neuropathy is one of them.

I'm strong with my opinions and I'm just trying to raise awareness. I have my own support group where I help women find a good doctor for explant and help them to detox from the chemicals afterwards. Some have improved a great deal. I know that my PN has improved a great deal but I still struggle with it. I feel like a walking barometer at times. I know when its going to rain because that is when the arthritis kicks in with the PN. I occassionally get the fibro flares as well.

--this is not an issue limited to breast implants--or even to cosmetic implants, which are a large fraction of, but not all of (as Dahlek notes) breast implants.

There are a number of people with reconstructed knees who have had similar symptoms/troubles. I don't know as much about people who have had (cosmetic and non-cosmetic) nose work done, but I imagine someone can enlighten me.

From what I've seen so far, if the issue is purely aesthetic/self-esteem, the burden of proof would not rise to the level of getting implants done--too many risks. If it's done for reconstructive or other biomechanical reasons, the decision to go or no would come from a more nuanced calculation.

Yes, I agree this isn't an issue limited to breast implants. Any implants made from silicone can cause problems. I feel very bad for the people out there that have had to have knee, hip replacements and the like and are now ill because they are reacting to the silicone that these medical devices are made from. However, this thread was asking specifically about breast implants after 2006 so that is what my reply was based on.

I have often wondered how many people are ill out there from knee replacements. I rarely hear about it until I joined this forum. My heart goes out to each and every one of you. I suffer with PN and although it has improved greatly since explant, it can still be very painful at times. It feels as though someone is chipping away at your bones and the pain in the feet is terrible and prevents me from standing for any length of time.

I certainly think you are generous to come here.

And I agree with you. Your posts are a great asset to this forum.
I know you are busy, but you know, we have a women's health forum here too.
A copy of your posts would be a tremendous asset there.
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forum41.html

No one likes to hear scary stuff. And when that happens some tend to attack the messenger. I've had reams of those responses myself, not so much here, but elsewhere!

One thing about knee and hip replacement is that typically they are done in older people. Doctors will hesitate to do them in people under 50, unless it is a huge emergency--like major trauma. Older people have weaker immune systems on average, and since it takes TIME to develop autoimmune responses, they may die before any really awful symptoms occur. Then there is the factoid that older people get PN anyway and so this development may not be associated with the knee/hip replacements. A very vigilant person may keep track and notice that after the surgery is when problems came. But if 5 yrs pass, then it becomes harder to attribute.

What is happening with implants is similar to the smoke and mirrors drug companies use to hide negative studies of their drugs they are promoting.
For example Lipitor may affect memory. So if an older patient develops memory issues on it, they might be diagnosed with Alzheimer's and the drug is ignored. This is Dr. Graveline's message:
http://www.spacedoc.net/lipitor.htm

With time however, the data does "will out". Only many may be damaged before that is recognized.

I think women who absolutely want implants should get some counseling before it decided upon. If the reasons are poor self image, that can be corrected. But for others who need implants for their occupation, like actresses, and the like, they may have financial reasons that will drive this decision. I think for example that the tragic life of Anna Nicole Smith --her drug use, pain issues, etc all revolved around the huge implants she had put in. But that is just my opinion. Here we have a person with low self esteem, who made the decision, and what benefits she reaped were short lived for her.
Her implants caused severe back pain, and who know what else, to lead her into drug abuse and other poor decisions. Her own son died as a result of methadone as well. (drug interaction). She is extreme, but she did an extreme thing, and the dominoes fell badly for her.

Right now in my area, are TV commericals advertising breast augmentation.
This really hooks young women, who may think this is a totally easy, affordable benign procedure, and they may not even research it. That bothers me.

Thanks for coming on here. I hope you decide to stay.

I know this question was specific to breast implants, but I can't miss a chance to tell this story. My immune system was shakey, on and off again high sed rates with the HLA-B27 gene. Then in March 2003, I had bi-lateral knee replacements. In May 2003, I developed Sjogren's Syndrome along with Peripheral Neuropathy. Yes, that fast.

My body hates these knees. I have been very ill since all of this started. I have brief periods where the immune system tries to straighten out, but never does it completely. I strongly advise anyone contemplating implants to think about it hard! Consider what your health is currently like and what you can do to enhance it before jumping in and letting a surgeon talk you into this. Mine did. I regret it every day.

Billye

Thank you and I will surely check the women's forum.

I agree with everything you had to say here. I do believe that women should not only have therapy but they should have silicone hypersensitivity testing and testing for other genetic factors before making a decision on breast aug. Not only are doctors hiding the truth about possible autoimmune related diseases and disorders from us but they are not testing us properly before doing this procedure. I think that every women should know all the facts before deciding on this. They should have the chemical list in front of them. I had none of that. I wasn't even told that the outer shell was silicone as my goal was to stay away from silicone! Many women are not told.

I can tell you that I had been through therapy most of my life due to depression and self esteem issues. It really didn't help me. When this is bred in you, it is difficult to change the mind set. I can tell you what made me want implants more than anything.....this isn't something that came to mind when I was young like the girls of today. It was something that I started to think about later in life because the magazines and tv blasted me with pictures of what the perfect woman should look like and I can tell you that none of them were flat chested. I do believe that had a huge impact on me. That and hearing over and over again, the term 'safe saline implants'. As many women know, there is nothing safe about them.

As for Anna Nicole Smith...I have heard that she had Lupus from her implants and she knew it. They were her status symbol and she was not willing to get rid of them. That is a tragic story. I have heard many stories about her. At one time I had no time for her but when all this developed and I started reading about her and her life, watching some older interviews, I realized this was a very troubled young lady that would rather die at a young age than get rid of the toxic bags that were really making her ill. She had commented many times that she knew she was going to die young. I don't believe that is a coincidence. I believe she knew she had Lupus from the implants and as you mentioned above about the old people with the hip and knee replacements, in the case of ANS again, there was not a correlation made between her death and the implants. This happens many times.

Another tragic story is that of PJ Brent. All you need to do is google her name. No, she was not famous but she suffered a great deal because of implants. She was not informed and her children also suffered. In her case though, the medical examiner found very high levels of platinum in her brain. I believe this is a big reason why women commit suicide. The chemicals in implants are a contributing factor and can cause severe depression. I already had been suffering with depression most of my life so when the implants made me ill, the depression became so severe, it was very difficult for me and my thoughts started to become erratic. I was not myself at all. I might have suffered from depression but I never had thoughts of suicide. The implants I believe did that.

So sorry for my long posts and spelling errors. I'm very passionate about this issue and try to educate as many women on the dangers as I possibly can.

Thank you and I'll check out the women's forum.