[veggie]

Originally Posted by MelodyL

Hi, me again.

If you take Methyl B-12 it just might perk you up a bit. I have two friends who were always tired and their B-12 levels were in your range. I told them what I take. I told them where I got it and they began taking it also. You should see the change in them. One of them was slightly anemic also. Even taking iron didn't help her.

She's a new person now that she is taking Methyl B-12.

It gets confusing I know with all these vitamins and supplements, etc. Mrs. D. knows her stuff.

That's how I learned what I learned. By coming on these forums and reading.

Changed my life BIG TIME.

I wish you well.

Melody

Thanks so much for your help. Yes it is confusing. If anything, maybe I better not let the b12 drop lower since I just read:
"lower limit in Japan and some European countries is 500-550 pg/mL and is based on the level which causes mental manifestations such as dementia and memory loss."

Also I am not sure about potassium. Some information says 3.7 is ok and some say that is too low. I am interested in knowing especially when I saw the symptoms:
* Weakness, tiredness, or cramping in arm or leg muscles,
* Tingling or numbness
* Nausea or vomiting
* Abdominal cramping, bloating
* Constipation
* Palpitations (feeling your heart beat irregularly)
* Passing large amounts of urine or feeling very thirsty most of the time
* Fainting due to low blood pressure
* Abnormal psychological behavior: depression, psychosis, delirium, confusion, or hallucinations.

I have had all the symptoms that are bold. It doesn't explain the nightmares though unless that is psychological in nature.

[MelodyL]

Originally Posted by veggie

Thanks so much for your help. Yes it is confusing. If anything, maybe I better not let the b12 drop lower since I just read:
"lower limit in Japan and some European countries is 500-550 pg/mL and is based on the level which causes mental manifestations such as dementia and memory loss."

Also I am not sure about potassium. Some information says 3.7 is ok and some say that is too low. I am interested in knowing especially when I saw the symptoms:
* Weakness, tiredness, or cramping in arm or leg muscles,
* Tingling or numbness
* Nausea or vomiting
* Abdominal cramping, bloating
* Constipation
* Palpitations (feeling your heart beat irregularly)
* Passing large amounts of urine or feeling very thirsty most of the time
* Fainting due to low blood pressure
* Abnormal psychological behavior: depression, psychosis, delirium, confusion, or hallucinations.

I have had all the symptoms that are bold. It doesn't explain the nightmares though unless that is psychological in nature.

Sounds like you are experiencing some anxiety in your life. Perhaps if you spoke to someone about this? Maybe the nightmares would stop??

I do wish you well.

Melody

[mrsD]

There is a amino acid called methionine...and it is necessary for our bodies to make SAM...which is a methyl donor for neurotransmitter synthesis. Methionine is usually found in animal food sources. If you get low in this, you could fail to make enough for your brain to run on.
http://www.drlam.com/opinion/methionine.asp

MethylB12 is only pennies a day orally. You could start at the lower dosage, 1000mcg a day on an empty stomach.

Online discount vitamin sources, have it, but stores most likely not. I've used iherb.com and Puritan's pride with good results.
I would use the methyl for the reasons, that are posted here at the beginning of this thread.

Check the content of your food choices for nutrients at this site:
http://nutritiondata.self.com/

Japan has high standards for their B12 because they had a huge accident involving a common drug used there that depleted B12 and left many dead and disabled as a result. So they tend to be more aggressive with the blood levels they use. The drug was clioquinol (aka Vioform).

[pabb]

PLEASE consider gluten intolerance/celiac disease....your presentation would be classic.....

[svguy]

I’m new here, but have been lurking for awhile - great forum with lots of info and insights.

I’m a 51 yo male, overall very healthy until last July. During a gym workout, I experienced a quite strong and unfamiliar occipital headache. That event seemed to trigger a progression of troubling neurological symptoms…

- Occipital headache (mid July), recurring and initially brought on by exertion, over time reduced to occasional, burning recurring surface pain
- Left-side (only) facial numbness (chin to cheek to eyebrow) (onset late July) – this numbing sensation feels as if lying below the skin surface, with normal sensitivity (hot, cold, touch, pressure) on the skin
- Tingling over torso and extremities (onset September), leading to generalized shooting “electric” sensations over entire body and pins/needles in hands/arms/feet
- Tingling/burning tongue/mouth/lips and tingling scalp
- Burning feet/legs, to a lesser extent, hands (onset October)
- Fatigue, mood changes, and overall body ache

After multiple doc and neurologist visits, MRA /MRI, complete physical, labwork, ruled out aneurysm, stroke, MS, tumor, lupus, etc. – basically all dread disease. Neurologist assessed it as idiopathic SFN (no biopsy yet).

Throughout, I’d wondered about a possible B12 deficiency - symptoms seem to match and I’d been a vegetarian for most of the 90’s. I started supplementing oral and sublingual B12 (2-4 mg/day), just in case. Then, I “discovered” online a connection between B12 deficiency and PPI use – I was diagnosed with GERD in 2003 and was on reflux meds (Prevacid and Prilosec) non-stop for 7.5 years. I got off that medication immediately and had temporary relief from the burning pain.

I had my doc order a serum B12 test in late October. This came back @ 1400 (!), though I was well into supplementation by the time of the draw, which I understand can distort results and can’t rule out a deficient condition or resultant damage.

In November I started a very aggressive supplementation regimen advocated on another blog, with sublingual mB-12 (15 mg/day) and adB-12 (3mg/day) and a host of vitamins, etc. Symptoms improved somewhat November-December, but then plateaued and seem to be worsening now – especially the burning feet.

I’m unsure, but I still think this could be a B-12 problem. My docs are less convinced. Would appreciate any thoughts/insights, and hearing of others’ experiences that involve both cranial nerves and feet/legs.

Many thanks!

[mrsD]

Welcome to NeuroTalk.

I'd ask you to go back to July and think what you were doing then?

Did you have a virus? Did you take RX drugs for anything? Antibiotics, Cholesterol lowering drugs?

Were you exposed to anything in your home or work?

B12 is only one player in nerve maintenance. Omega-3's are also involved. Also B6 and folate. If you have the MTHFR mutation you won't be methylating folic acid properly either. So methylfolate should be on your supplement list.

You might have to look to your diet... do a trial of gluten free to see if gluten is triggering you. There are other foods to think about...like the nightshade family, dairy, etc.

Do you consume alot of restaurant food? MSG is a powerful trigger in restaurant foods. Sugar consumption? Cutting back severely on sugar and high glycemic foods like white bread, rice, may help.

Have you had your Vit D tested? Low D is very common these days and needs addressing.

These are some starting points.

Can you share with us exactly and how much you are taking of other supplements?

[svguy]

Thanks for your speedy and thoughtful reply. It’s great to connect with folks who understand. I’ve been chasing this problem from many directions, so have touched many of these areas already. But you might have new insights…

1) Thinking back to July, I’d say I was among the healthiest people I know – regular exercise, modest diet, no major stressors. I was supplementing with a multi, Vit C, and fish oil. No prescription meds, but I was still on Prilosec daily dating to 2003. I did experience a very bad case of food poisoning at a fast food restaurant in late May. My doctors dismissed that due to the 6-7 week interval.

2) Can’t think of any exposures. My house is recent construction and my work is in a benign office building. It’s an older building, so I suppose some toxins are possible. I share that space with a business partner who has no symptoms. I had a hair analysis done late last year – no major problems identified.

3) I’m not aware of any MTHFR problems (though I see online that mutations are very common). I’ve been supplementing with methylfolate 800 mg daily since November.

4) I considered diet. Last year I’d say my diet was ok. I watched calories and fats, but not nearly enough whole foods. As well, I enjoyed too much coffee and diet soda. I dropped all artificial sweeteners in December, and have been off coffee since January.

5) I do consume a fair amount of restaurant food. Mostly at lunch during the workweek, and out for dinner once or twice during the week. I’m pretty careful with choices, though – places like Chipotle, Boston Market vs McDonalds and KFC for example. Also, in January, I decided to try a detox/cleanse. I followed “Clean” (Alejandro Junger) – you might be familiar with this program - 21 day elimination diet and detox. Among other, I removed all wheat, dairy, sugar, and nightshades. I stayed with that for 5 weeks, after which I incrementally reintroduced those foods watching for reactions, but found none. I was not overweight, but lost about 16 lbs while on that program.

6) My vitamin D was low last summer – 27 on my August lab. I started supplementing 1000-2000/daily at the time, and upped that to 4000-5000/daily this year. My March lab registered 66.

7) A few additional data points… My lipids improved significantly with changes in diet since last summer, but my March lab showed a very high C Reactive Protein – 8.4. Also, in March, I began to experience regular night sweats, some quite heavy – never had that before. Also, the other blog I’ve followed strongly advocates sublingual use of B12, not oral, so that has been my main use since starting the following regimen since November:

Daily Supplements:

MB12 (Jarrow) 5mg (3x) subingual
adB12 (Jarrow) 3 mg s
B Complex (Jarrow B-Right) (2x)
Metafolin 800 mg
Vit A 8000 iu
Vit C 1000 mg (was 4000 mg)
Vit D 4000-6000 iu
Vit E 400 iu
Calcium 500 mg (2x)
Magnesium 250 mg (2x)
Potassium 99 mx (4x)
Zinc 50 mg
Fish Oil 1400 mg (2x)
SAM-e 200 mg
L-Carnitine/ALA 500/150 mg (4x) (soon will change to R-Lipoic)
Co-Q-10 100 mg
Benfotiamin 150 mg (4x) (just started)

Whew...

Again, I'll appreciate any thoughts/suggestions.