[mrsD]

The potassium connection only exists for those very low in B12 levels to start with, who had anemia as well.

High injectable doses of B12 which may be given daily in the beginning, will stimulate the bone marrow to make more red cells quickly. Red cells contain alot of potassium and since this mineral is not stockpiled in the bones like calcium is, a sudden need for it may develop.

It is not going to happen the same way as a gradual oral supplementation of B12 would be vastly different.
I don't get the energized thing with B12 at all. Some people don't.
You might want to eat potassium rich foods, as many people don't, and the new nutritional target recommendation is 4.6 grams a day.
A can of V8 juice is very high (about 600-800mg)...higher than bananas, etc. The low sodium one is 1100mg! This is easy to do, and more effective than OTC supplements which are only 99mg. Gatorade only supplies 30mg a serving...useless.

But we all do have a circadian rhythm of cortisol production. It is highest in the morning after breakfast and a second less high spike after dinner. It is lowest at 4am or so (and this is when people most commonly die in hospitals or in their sleep) and a second less low dip at 4pm in the afternoon. This is why I believe the British have "teatime". A snack at 4pm tends to take away the subjective feelings of being low when that cortisol dips.

My guess is that when people are low in B12, they feel awful most of the time, and the 4pm dip is just more of the same. Improve things and get going nicely, and these patients would feel better for most of the day, so when the "dip" arrives it is more noticeable.

B12 responsive is highly subjective and always has been. Doctors know this, and in the historical past used to use it as a placebo treatment for any complaints of "tiredness" and fatigue that patients would complain about. It was so abused this way that the medical community overreacted and slapped sanctions on doctors for using it this way. So today, we see a reluctance to even test for it, or use the new lab ranges that are more accurate, because the med schools still teach that it is a mostly useless treatment and not to do it! To this day many doctors ignore elevated MCV in the blood work which is a direct hint that B12 is low!

I received the blood work of my cat, which was done before vacation. And the vet on the phone said it was all normal. But it is not...HER MCV is elevated! And I looked that up on the net at a Vet site, and MCV is elevated in about 50% of hyperthyroid cats. And she has that nodule on her left lobe he found. So tomorrow, I will be going to a cat specialty vet, and I just bet she gets some B12 injections! (I saw another owner picking that up for HER cat one day in the waiting room!)

I am still reeling that our own 13 yr old cat may need B12 ---and that her tests show what happens to humans as well!
I'll post tomorrow afternoon, as her appointment is at 10am.
I might have to wait for her bloodwork. (this cat vet does some right there, and sends other things out to a lab).

[ger715]

Mrs. D - When I joined in July, 2011 I had done a post to you; not realizing at the time, you were on vacation Had spine fusion/laminectomy L4-5, red angry nerve (doctor's words) and cysts going surrounding many of the vertebrae (cysts removed). Post surgery, still left with severe pain, as well as shin pain in both legs. Orginal and 2nd surgeon both felt there was nothing more that could be done and was referred to a Pain Specialist, which I currently am seeing.
Due to heavy pain meds (oxycotin, percocet) developed severe constipation eventually resulting in Cystocele surgery. Within a week or so, my legs,feet,ankles started swelling. (currently take Spironolactone and Furosemide daily)Also, developed statsis dermatatis in feet and ankles now up to knees.Shortly afterwards the burning feet, ankle and leg pain was awful and kept getting worse. I thought it was from the Statsis Dermatatis. My internist/endocrinolgist said the pain was from my Neuropathy. Started lookin info and now everything going on made sense, including balance problem as well.

Until a couple of months ago, when I started taking Methyl B12 took Miralax about 5 or 6 times a week. Although I have a lot of cramping and stomach issues since taking the Methyl B12, I only need Miralax once a week.

I recently had lab work done prior to doctor's appointment. Appointment cancelled and do not see doctor until the end of September. Since I had started taking the Methyl B12 and a B Complex asked doctors' office to check B12 & B6 (had purchased B6; but only took a few days) levels as well as other tests (hypothroid) Also, am taking 2,000 Vit D's daily since originally had been low at 18.
After six weeks of taking the Methyl B12 my count was 922. My D had gone up to 32. I had the B6 lab test done last week. The doctor's office called today to tell me my B6 was 54.1 and the normal is 2.0 - 32.8. Since I had only taken the BComplex for about a week and only a couple of days of B6 (about 8 weeks ago) and now take only the B12, I don't believe the high B6 number is due to the BComplex or B6 vitamin. I will be seeing the doctor in a few weeks; but am concerned about the B6 number. I would appreciate any imput you can give me.
Gerry

[mrsD]

Different labs have different B6 ranges. I've seen some in US go up to 90 or so. Others lower.

This remains a gray area in vitamin testing. Serum testing is always less accurate than cellular testing, because cells can rupture and spill contents into the serum causes false highs.
Potassium also can be affected this way.

If you eat any enriched foods, then you can be getting B6 that way as well.

None of the studies I've looked at which reported very high B6 side effects ever noted the actual number on the abstracts. So we don't really know if your level is worrisome or not.

[Nervous]

Originally Posted by mrsD

So today, we see a reluctance to even test for it, or use the new lab ranges that are more accurate,

I'll be having my B12 and other stuff retested this month.

What are the new B12 ranges?

Thanks!

[mrsD]

Anything below 400 is suspect. Anything below 300 can have substantial neuro symptoms. Anything below 200 is scary!

Anything higher is desirable. There is no absolute high...only where the machines can test to... which I have seen reported on a few sites at 2000. That is in US pg/ml concentrations.

I think people with substantial neuro symptoms should aim for 1000 at least.

[ger715]

Originally Posted by mrsD

Different labs have different B6 ranges. I've seen some in US go up to 90 or so. Others lower.

This remains a gray area in vitamin testing. Serum testing is always less accurate than cellular testing, because cells can rupture and spill contents into the serum causes false highs.
Potassium also can be affected this way.

If you eat any enriched foods, then you can be getting B6 that way as well.

None of the studies I've looked at which reported very high B6 side effects ever noted the actual number on the abstracts. So we don't really know if your level is worrisome or not.

I had started the Methyl B12, and a few times a week took R-Lipoic Acid. Also, for a brief period, Benfotiamine (B1) because of having read some articles about the possibility of regenerating damaged nerves using these vitamins/ supplements. Do you think taking these may help the process or regenerating the damaged nerves?
Gerry

[zeeclass6]

No, I definitely feel that the B-12 has something to do with it. I feel markedly more tired for no apparent reason. I'm getting 7 to 8 hours of sleep at night, so it's not sleep deprivation. This fatigue began a few days after starting the B-12 supplementation. Today, for instance, I felt tired all day long.

I was researching this on the web and found posts from other people (on other forums) that complained of fatigue after getting B-12 shots (which I know are much stronger than the 1,000 mcg oral pill I'm dissolving in my mouth every morning).

I'm very sensitive to medications in general and sometimes have paradoxical reactions. For example, I once tried a magnesium/calcium powder supplement called Natural Calm, which is supposed to help make you feel relaxed and sleepy. Instead, it made me incredibly wired as though I'd had a lot of caffeine!

Originally Posted by glenntaj

--that have nothing to do with your supplementation, including a low blood sugar state post lunch (relative hypoglycemia), which is not all that uncommon . . .

Also, people's circadian rhythms differ, and a number of people report a natural down period in the middle of the afternoon, especially if they are prone to post-meal hypoglycemic states . . .

Has this only been happening since you've been supplementing, or has it been present before and been exacerbated by it, or is it more noticeable in comparison with the relatively higher morning energy state?

[mrsD]

Originally Posted by ger715

I had started the Methyl B12, and a few times a week took R-Lipoic Acid. Also, for a brief period, Benfotiamine (B1) because of having read some articles about the possibility of regenerating damaged nerves using these vitamins/ supplements. Do you think taking these may help the process or regenerating the damaged nerves?
Gerry

Yes, I think all 3 are helpful for some people. R-lipoic helps with mitochondrial functions, and Benfotiamine is a cofactor in
metabolism carbohydrates and of certain dehydrogenase enzymes ...one of which metabolizes alcohols and aldehydes.

[zeeclass6]

Well this is interesting. I came across an old lab test from 7 years ago, in 2004. It's the only time (as far as I know) that my B-12 level was ever previously tested.

My B-12 level in 2004 was 1627.

And my B-12 level from last month was 398.

I have taken a B-complex vitamin daily for many years, so it's not like I wasn't trying to get extra B vitamins. And I have always eaten a sensible well-balanced diet.

What would cause a woman's B-12 level to drop so dramatically in 7 years?

I've had Hashimoto's Thyroiditis for the past 15 years. Would that be the sole reason, or might there be something else?

I need to know what else to ask my endocrincologist to test me for when I see her next month.

[pabb]

Originally Posted by zeeclass6

Well this is interesting. I came across an old lab test from 7 years ago, in 2004. It's the only time (as far as I know) that my B-12 level was ever previously tested.

My B-12 level in 2004 was 1627.

And my B-12 level from last month was 398.

I have taken a B-complex vitamin daily for many years, so it's not like I wasn't trying to get extra B vitamins. And I have always eaten a sensible well-balanced diet.

What would cause a woman's B-12 level to drop so dramatically in 7 years?

I've had Hashimoto's Thyroiditis for the past 15 years. Would that be the sole reason, or might there be something else?

I need to know what else to ask my endocrincologist to test me for when I see her next month.

not enough in most B complex tabs/caps to matter...you are apparently not absorbing as well as you were....consider celiac disease...good luck