[Sallysblooms]

I have been a member on Phoenix Rising for years. Fredd is a special case. Another member that does not have CFS has explained this to me. I take NAC, Liposomal Glutathione etc. I check my B12 levels twice a year. Most people get enormous help from these supplements.

Most people do well on Rich's protocol for CFS. Fredd scared me too! ha

Just get your level tested and take your supplement for B12. My level is good, but I do take the sublingual every few days.

[julleri]

Thank you, Sally!

I tried NAC in the past, but I didn't really like how I felt on it. I don't know if it was from the NAC or from other things I was going through at the time. I don't really think I need it.

Sally, when you say you take the sublingual B12 every few days, how do you take it? Do you swallow the pill on an empty stomach, as MrsD here advises, or do you let it dissolve sublingually a little bit beforehand? Do you use Puritan's Pride, Jarrow, or any other brand?

Thanks again!

[Sallysblooms]

Subligual is under the tongue. I let it dissolve slowly. I had such a low level of B12 15 or more years ago that it was barely on the scale. I had shots and sublingual for years, now sublingual works great. Source Naturals is good. Methyl B12.

I had severe vertigo and problems from that low level. Reg. docs had no idea why. Makes me so sad I went through that, then CFS, then POTS. Finding integrative doctors are the key for me at least. He tested a LOT of things.

Things are better now. Docs seem to know more about B12, Vit D and others. So easy to prevent illness by checking the blood.

[julleri]

Originally Posted by Sallysblooms

Subligual is under the tongue. I let it dissolve slowly. I had such a low level of B12 15 or more years ago that it was barely on the scale. I had shots and sublingual for years, now sublingual works great. Source Naturals is good. Methyl B12.

I had severe vertigo and problems from that low level. Reg. docs had no idea why. Makes me so sad I went through that, then CFS, then POTS. Finding integrative doctors are the key for me at least. He tested a LOT of things.

Things are better now. Docs seem to know more about B12, Vit D and others. So easy to prevent illness by checking the blood.

Thank you, Sally.

This experience with this has been pure hell on earth for me, that and having had an adverse reaction to antidepressants and now withdrawal from them. My vitamin D is low, too. I'm supplementing that as well. I'm only 30 years old, too. I feel like a worn-out 75 year old man.

I really hope my conditions improve over the next year or so. I just worry I'm not getting enough B12 or that I'm not doing it right, etc. Everyone seems to do or say something different about how to get it. One doc said once-a-month shots were good enough, another says once a week then once a month. The method of taking oral (oral vs. sublingual) seems debatable, too. With all this debate, it just heightens my anxiety (which is already high from the antidepressant issues) as to whether I'm getting enough or am doing it right.

This might be a good question for MrsD - I have actually found a couple studies online that were done with the question of sublingual versus oral, and it seems that sublingual didn't make a difference in serum cobalamin levels versus high-dose oral just swallowed. I can't think of the studies off the top of my head, though. Maybe I can find them to share.

I am also giving myself a shot of methylb12, 1 mg, once a week for the next 9 weeks just to complete the shot series. It makes me feel better to just finish them off. That way I will have had 20 shots (or thereabouts) total, which should be more than enough to replete the liver. And on days I don't take the shots I will take the oral 5000 mcg.

Thanks again, Sally, for your advice!

Jason

[Sallysblooms]

Jason, I have done the shots to bring my level up. Sublinguals were what most of my doctors liked, but one doctor suggested the pills. Everyone is different. Just getting the level up is important.

Do you also eat meat?

[julleri]

Originally Posted by Sallysblooms

Jason, I have done the shots to bring my level up. Sublinguals were what most of my doctors liked, but one doctor suggested the pills. Everyone is different. Just getting the level up is important.

Do you also eat meat?

Hi Sally,

Yes I do eat meat. But I think I don't absorb B12. I'm probably lacking intrinsic factor. The thing that I think did it was years of use of Prilosec OTC, which is a proton pump inhibitor, which can damage those cells. It's really the only thing I can think of, unless I have an autoimmune disease that kills the parietal cells, which I don't know. I had an upper endoscopy a couple weeks ago and from what I gather everything was normal. It's probably just a lack of IF, but as for the cause, I don't know! I guess it almost doesn't even matter why anymore, since there is so much B12 out there and in mega high doses to take (and also shots, etc).

[Sallysblooms]

Good since many do not eat meat, makes it hard to get many things you need. I hope you can get the level up soon.

[mrsD]

Here is a blog written by a doctor who uses high dose methylB12 for autistic patients.

It explains the glutathione issue: His opinion:
http://www.generationrescue.org/dr-j...d-vitamin-b12/

Most people as they age develop LOW glutathione. So the emphasis is on keeping adequate glutathione levels for good health.

Here is a pretty good explanation from Dr. Mercola about glutathione:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...pplements.aspx

The amount of whey in a protein bar is quite low. Whey protein is a provider of amino acids just like a steak would be, only they are in a form that does not require digestion. Poor digestion of protein can come from using acid blocking drugs too much, or not eating animal sourced foods, which have the sulfur rich amino acids in them.

When whey is used by the scoop in smoothies, more is typically consumed that way.

I saw glutathione mentioned in Dr. Jay Cohen's website, in relation to reversing a PN that was caused by Levaquin in one patient. This is an anecdotal report, where the patient received IV glutathione and the PN improved. (PN from antibiotics like Levaquin is thought to be irreversible, but glutathione helped that one patient).

Here is a paper from a pain management seminar that discusses using glutathione (along with other supplements) to treat neuropathy:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...F891DwtcwaL3Aw

Some people don't like NAC, and it can cause itching or burning of the skin in some. Here is a good explanation of NAC and also some of the side effects reported:
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supple...TYL%20CYSTEINE

I think the subject of B12 with glutathione is very complicated and perhaps too biochemical to really understand for most people except biochemists. But I have never seen comments about too much glutathione!

http://www.immune-health-solutions-f...e-effects.html

To illustrate how complicated it can be here is a pathway chart of how glutathione is metabolized and created:
http://www.genome.jp/kegg-bin/show_pathway?map00480

Each box with a number in it represents an enzyme involved.
And there are several pathways involving several amino acids too, glycine, proline, taurine, cysteine, methionine, etc.

Glutathione itself is not well absorbed orally. There are new products out that make a liposomal suspension of glutathione, so it will be absorbed orally, so IV is not necessary. This type of suspension is tiny spheres of glutathione with a phosolipid membrane in nano size dimensions, and this delivers the glutathione to the liver adequately.

Using NAC only provides the cysteine for the complicated pathway in the link I showed you. You can see it is a very small contribution compared to everything else that can happen. And just because you take it, doesn't mean it gets used where YOU want it. The body's chemistry and enzymes determine that.

This is very complex...so go slowly reading and you may have to read several times to get the gist of it all.

Swallowing a sublingual works as well as oral in studies for B12. But you have to do this on an empty stomach for best results.