[julleri]

Originally Posted by mrsD

Sounds very difficult... I am sorry Jason you are having such a bad time.

So are you taking some form of SSRI now or not? I am unclear about that.

When you go off SSRIs...there are zaps and all sorts of things to deal with. Accept that and try not to get anxious about it.
Usually it clears up with time, as it is just your body adjusting.

You DO know that 90% of serotonin is in the body and not the brain? this is what leads to all the weird sensations for the most part. I know it is difficult if you have anxiety and/or other emotional burdens, but it will pass if you are patient.

There is no connection that I have ever seen between B12 and SSRI drugs. So don't worry about that.

Hi MrsD,

Not taking anything anymore. Never again. Not after what I've gone through.

I actually haven't had any brain zaps that I can solidly remember. Maybe a couple at most, but they've been so infrequent that I can't solidly say they were brain zaps. I do have lots of nerve pain, though. Maybe these are "body zaps"? I don't know. I have numb areas, patches on skin, some peripheral tingling sometimes, and some stinging/sharp shooting pains. Also parasthesias. I am aware that the majority of serotonin is found else where in the body, like the gut. And I notice a pattern with many people, that the time I'm in (3 months off) is notoriously horrendous, and that people start to see windows of relief a few to several months after that, then start to see solid improvements about one year off. Whew!

I can't believe I blindly trusted doctors and the things they put me on! Never again!

Thank you again for your concern. It's very thoughtful of you. I'll just keep taking my B12, as this is a totally unrelated situation. Both you and a moderator on the SSRI withdrawal board have pointed that out to me.

Jason

[mrsD]

Some people when they no longer are taking an SSRI can supplement with either l-tryptophan or 5-HTP.

This can cushion the withdrawal for some. I think the l-tryptophan is gentler in this regard.

Also some may find SAMe works. This stimulates neurotransmitter synthesis and may increase serotonin.

Ask for further info from me if you are interested. But I assume the other places you visit have already offered these ideas.

[julleri]

Originally Posted by mrsD

Some people when they no longer are taking an SSRI can supplement with either l-tryptophan or 5-HTP.

This can cushion the withdrawal for some. I think the l-tryptophan is gentler in this regard.

Also some may find SAMe works. This stimulates neurotransmitter synthesis and may increase serotonin.

Ask for further info from me if you are interested. But I assume the other places you visit have already offered these ideas.

Thanks MrsD,

My therapist also recommended some of these things. Ironically, most members on the antidepressant forum caution against using these things, at least during the thick of withdrawal, as many are way too sensitive to even these things! And they aren't even drugs! That's how sensitive our systems have become (at least for many). I'm playing it safe and avoiding all things serotonergic for now. Food is my medicine (although today I'm pretty bad and haven't eaten much. Need to soon...). Trouble with this is there just isn't a fast and easy way. Time does the most healing. It's almost the same with B12 recovery I notice. You take the B12 but the healing isn't instant and it's so non linear.

Thanks again

[mrsD]

Normally in our bodies, l-tryptophan + B6 are involved in making Serotonin. MethylB12 is then involved with serotonin to make melatonin. So if you are having sleeping issues, taking some melatonin may help until your system starts making it again. Low B12 often results in poor sleeping. And that takes a while to fix itself too.

The SSRI drugs focus the serotonin on the synapse, and hence the cell eventually stops making more, and when the drug is removed suddenly, the cells have none in back up function.

Taking some tryptophan is often helpful to start things back up.
As I said it is more gentle than using 5-HTP which is faster and more like a drug. Taking the tryptophan away from meals will allow it to pass thru the blood brain barrier more effectively, as there is a competition with other amino acids there.

You don't even need it every day... starting at twice a week may slowly jumpstart your own synthesis.

[julleri]

I just got a call from the office of the neurologist I saw (the one I don't like), with numbers for B12 and B6. Good news, my B12 was 1,844! Bad news, my B6 was high, 47.9 (she said the range is 2.1 - 21.7).

High B6 can cause nerve pain, correct? I don't take any additional B6 other than what comes in my multivitamin, that Target Up & Up brand. I don't have the information in front of me so I don't know how much is in there. I want to say it's 100% or 150% RDA, but it's well below what can constitute daily toxic intake, I believe. I'll have to check.

Do you know anything about B6, MrsD, as it relates to nerve pain?

I am very happy about the B12 reading, though.

[mrsD]

The ranges were done many years ago, and were not done on people who take vitamins. So someone on vitamins would be expected to test higher than someone not taking them.

That is not really high. Most labs go up to 90 or 100 for B6 as normal. I wouldn't worry about it. You need some B6 to make serotonin. Recommendations today are to stay under 100mg a day of B6. I wouldn't worry about it at this time. You can stop your multivitamins if you want, if they are high in folic acid and B6, but that is really up to you.

I would think about magnesium however. Because when that is low, all sorts of nasty things happen, strange sensations, muscle twitches, muscle cramps, low energy etc.

One of the hundreds of chemical reactions in the body dependent on magnesium is making serotonin also.
http://www.kospublishing.com/html/mag.html

This is my B6 thread:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread30724.html

[julleri]

Originally Posted by mrsD

The ranges were done many years ago, and were not done on people who take vitamins. So someone on vitamins would be expected to test higher than someone not taking them.

That is not really high. Most labs go up to 90 or 100 for B6 as normal. I wouldn't worry about it. You need some B6 to make serotonin. Recommendations today are to stay under 100mg a day of B6. I wouldn't worry about it at this time. You can stop your multivitamins if you want, if they are high in folic acid and B6, but that is really up to you.

I would think about magnesium however. Because when that is low, all sorts of nasty things happen, strange sensations, muscle twitches, muscle cramps, low energy etc.

One of the hundreds of chemical reactions in the body dependent on magnesium is making serotonin also.
http://www.kospublishing.com/html/mag.html

This is my B6 thread:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread30724.html

Hi MrsD,

I just came back from a follow up visit with the GI doctor I saw and he said that if anything I should work on getting the B12 DOWN. Of course I knew that this is ridiculous since there is no upper limit on B12. He wasn't concerned about the high B6, though, but I still am. He isn't a neurologist, though, so he may not know.

As far as my endoscopy is concerned everything he said is normal. And the bloodwork he took was normal, too. it did include magnesium. The level was 2.3, with a ref. range of 1.7 - 2.4 mg/dL. My zinc was normal too (forgot where I read it but sometimes people can get zinc deficiencies, too, which can be a problem).

I'm guessing then that nearly all (if not all entirely - probably) ... all of my symptoms are related to the adverse reaction I had to antidepressants and the withdrawal that I'm going through now. It's just so scary! The nerve pain for instance feels like little beestings on my skin. Parasthesias? And last night I had a terrible spell where I had little memory, could hardly think, felt totally unreal and like my brain was just deteriorating (like Alzhemiers or something). I still feel pretty shaken today from it. But at least all these tests are showing things not out of the ordinary anymore.

It does take a while after reaching high B12 levels for B12 to make serious positive changes in the body, too, I am gathering.

Anyway, just had to share what this doctor said with regards to "high B12" -- I thought of you when he said it was "too high" lol.