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mymorgy 11-27-2009 07:52 PM

angry
 
i am angry at my medications and angry at my therapist. she wants me to take a shower or bath everyday and that really tics me off big time. she also wants me to change outfits every day. she also wants me to take a walk every morning....I have a lot of clean clothes but it doesn't make me feel any better if i switch clothes every day. Bathing stresses me out big time. I think it is also bad for the skin to bathe every day. it is as if she wants to turn me into an obsessive compulsive. I do like bubble baths though and take them when i think I need them. Wwhen I was into sports I was always taking showers.
the medications have taken away what highs i have had and leave me mostly depressed. that isn't fair. I told my psychiatrist I was going to cut back on risperdal and take 1/4 of what I have been taking. It makes me lethargic and puts a lid on me. I have pernicious anemia, high blood pressure ,diabetes II and deficient in vitamin d. Before I started with these medications, I didn't have any of those conditions. I have also gained 100 pounds in eight years.
I am just so angry
Bobby

waves 11-27-2009 08:13 PM

Dearest Bobby
 
You have every right to be angry. I would be too. Let your therapist know how you feel about her requests in no uncertain terms. And with that, let her know just how angry it makes you too. See what she has to say afterwards. she may have some reasons she wants you to go through some "hoops" but perhaps she needs to realize that she set forth an unreasonable number of "hoops" if that is what she is trying to do. In that case you and she can maybe figure out what is doable or even attemptable for you. She needs to take into consideration your level of fatigue that is partly due to physical factors plus the meds and you cannot just psych yourself out of that with "hoops!" (i am making suppositions here, about what her intent is... i don't really know.) Anyway letting her know how you feel i think is the place to start.

As for the meds, yes, do talk to your pdoc too, about lowering the risperdal if you feel it is weakening you more than helping. It is hard to believe there isn't a link between your meds and at least some of your conditions... and there can be a domino effect too. Talk to him. Yell if you need to. Rock the boat. Shake the tree. There has to be a better way. Killing the highs without fixing the lows is hardly a good solution, i agree.

I am so sorry about the weight gain too. It's easy on and not easy off. i have not gained as much but i gained 48 lbs with Zyprexa - that was 1 and 1/2 times my weight for i was 106 at the outset (granted, underweight at the time). I dieted sensibly, gradually several times and got a lot of it off, only to gain what i had lost back with another bout of depression or a SINGLE week of zyprexa. So i can relate to that too.

You have been suffering for so long. I hope you are able to give your pdoc and your therapist a jolt on these things. Medicines are supposed to make us more better than worse. Therapy too.

Is there anything that gives you comfort nowadays? Do you still read much?

:hug::hug::hug:

~ waves ~ sending you warm thoughts

Mari 11-27-2009 09:16 PM

she needs to have some basic respect for your needs and wishes
 
Dear Bobby,
Is this a new therapist?
As you know I really hate to shower and it is for a number of different reasons -- some that are incomprehensible to a person without bipolar.
I'm almost as annoyed by the idea of having to change clothes every day as I am about by the new shower rule. Does she lack experience with people like you?

If she does have the experience, maybe ask her how well her suggestions have turned out in the past.

I think her new rules are cruel. They demonstrate that she has no understanding and no awareness. Instead of pressuring you, she should could be offering support. And she could be working to empower you rather than what she is doing now.

And let's say that she wants to push you a little bit. Maybe she could ask (that's an idea :eek: ) about things that you want to change and offer ways to help with those things that you need from her. In other words, I think she should be listening to you than to some stupid set of rules that would purportedly work for garden variety depression.

Perhaps you can tell your pdoc to make a call or make a note on a prescription pad to leave you a lone about the bathing and the changing clothes -- but it does not solve the problem. She needs to get a clue.

For crying out loud, has she looked at your list of meds???? :mad: Does she know what side effects they cause? Does she know the price we pay for both the disorder AND the meds. She's so wrong on so many levels.
She acts like she just got out of school and never met a real life patient before.


What happened when you told the pdoc about wanting a lower dose? I'm glad that you spoke up. He should let you do what you know is right for you. I hope that your session with him went ok.


Regarding vit D:
I've been taking 4000 IUs a day for four or 5 weeks. According to the information on the internet, I probably need to be taking much more. (I tested low at 13 with a normal reference of 20-100).
Sources on the web say I need more than 4000 a day. I'll look for those links. I think MrsD has links for that.
Low D can probably cause energy and mood problems (I can't find sources on the 'net right now but that sounds right. You've probably looked that up yourself anyway.)
According to this, the prescription vit D is usually D2, not D3. We need D3 if we are supplementing orally:
http://www.worldhealth.net/news/if_y...vitamin_d_how/


M.

bizi 11-28-2009 01:39 AM

dear bobby,
It makes me angry with you over these rules of order....Is she new to you or have you already established a relationship with her.
I agree with folks have said to you ...ask you what you see as a problem and your meds do need to be adjusted.
I am sorry that you are still dealing with such depression.
I jsut started reading twilight...really enjoy that simplisity and romance. saw the movies as well.
I hope that you can better communicate your needs about these issues...when do you see her again?
((((HUGS)))))
hugs to you
bizi

DiMarie 11-28-2009 06:51 AM

Bobby,
There must be a book that has a page the doc's use for good things to accomplish...they forgot the footnote that says, just reading and saying "I thought about it" and that is a goal to meet for the goal and just as important.

I think anyone telling me I had to shower every day, I would not want to do it. Like in the hospital they come in hand you towels and say ok shower time....why the heck, I am sick in hospital the shower helps HOW?

It takes a lot of emotional energy, and physical desire to get showers.....
I still bargin, I am not shaving the legs for the winter and if I want, I will wash the hair later.
Getting out of the shower wet and dressing is one thing, dealing with the hair at that moment is another.

I do like my bubble baths, too.

So many of the meds can and do cause the medical problems. Many of those symptoms can be from meds....Flash back to doc, well if I take these meds and feel even worse, what makes you think a shower a day is going to make me feel better. I would feel better, IF I COULD FEEL BETTER>
di:hug:

mymorgy 11-28-2009 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waves (Post 594381)
You have every right to be angry. I would be too. Let your therapist know how you feel about her requests in no uncertain terms. And with that, let her know just how angry it makes you too. See what she has to say afterwards. she may have some reasons she wants you to go through some "hoops" but perhaps she needs to realize that she set forth an unreasonable number of "hoops" if that is what she is trying to do. In that case you and she can maybe figure out what is doable or even attemptable for you. She needs to take into consideration your level of fatigue that is partly due to physical factors plus the meds and you cannot just psych yourself out of that with "hoops!" (i am making suppositions here, about what her intent is... i don't really know.) Anyway letting her know how you feel i think is the place to start.

As for the meds, yes, do talk to your pdoc too, about lowering the risperdal if you feel it is weakening you more than helping. It is hard to believe there isn't a link between your meds and at least some of your conditions... and there can be a domino effect too. Talk to him. Yell if you need to. Rock the boat. Shake the tree. There has to be a better way. Killing the highs without fixing the lows is hardly a good solution, i agree.

I am so sorry about the weight gain too. It's easy on and not easy off. i have not gained as much but i gained 48 lbs with Zyprexa - that was 1 and 1/2 times my weight for i was 106 at the outset (granted, underweight at the time). I dieted sensibly, gradually several times and got a lot of it off, only to gain what i had lost back with another bout of depression or a SINGLE week of zyprexa. So i can relate to that too.

You have been suffering for so long. I hope you are able to give your pdoc and your therapist a jolt on these things. Medicines are supposed to make us more better than worse. Therapy too.

Is there anything that gives you comfort nowadays? Do you still read much?

:hug::hug::hug:

~ waves ~ sending you warm thoughts

Hi Waves,
I think I am going to give my therapist and Pdoc a jolt. My therapist is around my age so she must have been in practice for years. I forgot to add that my sleeping is atrocious....more atrocious since I have been on the medications.
At the clinic I go to, in order for me to see Dr.Moussavian, I have to also see a therapist. I have been with Dr.Moussavian for eight years now and just respect and adore him so much. He has tried to give me over five medications for my difficult with sleeping. Like last night, I finally fell asleep after 12:30 and then woke up at three thirty....I talked to a friend who has sleeping problems and then started reading. Yes I still enjoy reading. My cats also give me comfort. I made a huge breakthrough I think about my deep fear of death and God. My parents were very cruel to me and very critical so along the way I grew terrified of God and thought the great unknown expected me to be perfect.....Dr.Moussavian said I could lower the risperdal. I told him I was so worried about my weight and I am always tired. I blamed a lot of it on the risperdal. He just switched me to Celexa. He said that is weight neutral. Thank God you didn't gain more weight with Zyprexa....that stuff is so much worse than risperdal.
Love
Bobby

mymorgy 11-28-2009 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mari (Post 594396)
Dear Bobby,
Is this a new therapist?
As you know I really hate to shower and it is for a number of different reasons -- some that are incomprehensible to a person without bipolar.
I'm almost as annoyed by the idea of having to change clothes every day as I am about by the new shower rule. Does she lack experience with people like you?

If she does have the experience, maybe ask her how well her suggestions have turned out in the past.

I think her new rules are cruel. They demonstrate that she has no understanding and no awareness. Instead of pressuring you, she should could be offering support. And she could be working to empower you rather than what she is doing now.

And let's say that she wants to push you a little bit. Maybe she could ask (that's an idea :eek: ) about things that you want to change and offer ways to help with those things that you need from her. In other words, I think she should be listening to you than to some stupid set of rules that would purportedly work for garden variety depression.

Perhaps you can tell your pdoc to make a call or make a note on a prescription pad to leave you a lone about the bathing and the changing clothes -- but it does not solve the problem. She needs to get a clue.

For crying out loud, has she looked at your list of meds???? :mad: Does she know what side effects they cause? Does she know the price we pay for both the disorder AND the meds. She's so wrong on so many levels.
She acts like she just got out of school and never met a real life patient before.


What happened when you told the pdoc about wanting a lower dose? I'm glad that you spoke up. He should let you do what you know is right for you. I hope that your session with him went ok.


Regarding vit D:
I've been taking 4000 IUs a day for four or 5 weeks. According to the information on the internet, I probably need to be taking much more. (I tested low at 13 with a normal reference of 20-100).
Sources on the web say I need more than 4000 a day. I'll look for those links. I think MrsD has links for that.
Low D can probably cause energy and mood problems (I can't find sources on the 'net right now but that sounds right. You've probably looked that up yourself anyway.)
According to this, the prescription vit D is usually D2, not D3. We need D3 if we are supplementing orally:
http://www.worldhealth.net/news/if_y...vitamin_d_how/


M.

you are right. she is adding more pressure to me and is starting to give me a complex in this area even though i am fighting it. I told her a lot of bipolar people have trouble with the stress of bathing....she is like a broken record.
I told Dr.Moussavian that at times it seems like the only thing she cares about is putting structure into my life by bathing every day, wearing new clothes every day and now taking a morning walk every day. These medications have done me in so much that now I have difficulty walking around the block. My friend Robert said for a month he will walk me around the block with his wonder dog Mickey. I think we have been doing it for over two weeks now and I notice a little process.
I did look up vitamin d and saw some site even sold 40,000 and I read a study that used that amount. I forgot how much we can take it from sunlight for ten or twenty minutes....something like 20,000. Yes I read about moodiness and depression and lack of energy. ugh
she knows I am also having trouble aging. It started happening when I turned sixty and also started having difficulty having the energy to walk much. I still have a strong need to contribute to the world but I AM SO TIRED AND OFTEN TIMES TOO DEPRESSED. she knows this. I also feel alone even if I am with people who don't share my values. At this age it is so hard meeting new people. I also don't have much money at all and a lot of activities are expensive and also to get to them would require a cab since my ability to walk without getting tired is awful.
Bobby

mymorgy 11-28-2009 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizi (Post 594464)
dear bobby,
It makes me angry with you over these rules of order....Is she new to you or have you already established a relationship with her.
I agree with folks have said to you ...ask you what you see as a problem and your meds do need to be adjusted.
I am sorry that you are still dealing with such depression.
I jsut started reading twilight...really enjoy that simplisity and romance. saw the movies as well.
I hope that you can better communicate your needs about these issues...when do you see her again?
((((HUGS)))))
hugs to you
bizi

thanks for the hugs. I see her in another week. I see her every other week.
last time, it was quite interesting. she told me I probably didn't benefit from all the years of therapy I had had. I agreed with her. I have seen her for a few months. I like her as a person but not as a therapist. I need support and not pressure. I have basically given up on my medications helping me. I have tried so many antidepressants and antipsychotics. I now need two m. of klonopin to work. lithium never worked. lamictal I got gum problems. Oh I forgot about the dry mouth these drugs have caused and now my teeth are in such bad shape.
She probably sees me as recalcitrant.
I don't know about twilight...I will check it out. I saw Blind Side -second movie i have seen in about five years. I loved it
Bobby

mymorgy 11-28-2009 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiMarie (Post 594491)
Bobby,
There must be a book that has a page the doc's use for good things to accomplish...they forgot the footnote that says, just reading and saying "I thought about it" and that is a goal to meet for the goal and just as important.

I think anyone telling me I had to shower every day, I would not want to do it. Like in the hospital they come in hand you towels and say ok shower time....why the heck, I am sick in hospital the shower helps HOW?

It takes a lot of emotional energy, and physical desire to get showers.....
I still bargin, I am not shaving the legs for the winter and if I want, I will wash the hair later.
Getting out of the shower wet and dressing is one thing, dealing with the hair at that moment is another.

I do like my bubble baths, too.

So many of the meds can and do cause the medical problems. Many of those symptoms can be from meds....Flash back to doc, well if I take these meds and feel even worse, what makes you think a shower a day is going to make me feel better. I would feel better, IF I COULD FEEL BETTER>
di:hug:

Oh wow...I hope I remember to tell her if the medications don't make me feel better, how will a daily shower,morning walk and changing into new clothes will make me feel better. ..and then add that the pressure she is creating for me is making me feel worse. it is not supportive. I don't know. Maybe she should be creative and just find ways of being supportive to me.
I also keep my apartment on the cold side so that is another thing about taking a daily washing. I usually just want to crawl back into bed.
I so badly want to be productive again. I also want to warn people about the dangers of all these medications and it is appearing they have caused more problems than helped. Being this fat now is so bad for my self esteem besides energy level. I don't have a sense of humor about it. ...more like rage.
Bobby

bizi 11-28-2009 11:59 AM

you're the second person to say they loved blind side...must check that out!
twilight is a romantic love story about bellla a young highschooler who falls in love with her class mate, who happens to be a vampire.
Tiwlight you can rent at the video stores and new moon is still in the theaters. there are 4 books out so far with a fith one on the way. a third movie comes out summer 2010.
bizi

Mari 11-29-2009 05:15 AM

Ask her about her role as therapist. How does she she herself?
 
Dear Bobby,

Can you talk to her?
Maybe ask her what she sees as her role.
And then for example, tell her you do not need her for instructions. Or, for that matter, rules. We've got enough rules.
Let her know that you are working on being compassionate toward yourself and others and forcing yourself to bathe and shower everyday is not compatible with that.
Tell her what your focus IS.

Let her know exactly how she is helping and how she is not.
Tell her what you do need her for.
Give her suggestions on what you need help with.


Basically, redirect her and give her a different focus.
Maybe the both of you can find a way for her to actually help you.

M.

Mari 11-29-2009 07:17 AM

I'm still astonished by this and can't get it out of my head
 
Bobby,

That would be so cool if wearing clean clothes every day would help. What an idea to consider that wearing clean clothes would help with bipolar depression. How did she come up with that? :eek:

Is she actually an idiot? :mfr_wha:
'Sorry not being helpful here.


Work with her. Think of this as a teachable moment. It will take some energy but it will be worth it in the long run.

I'm going to bed.

M.

waves 11-29-2009 08:51 AM

is therapist idiot? no. relationship need work? yes.
 
Dear Bobby,

i had started a longer reply to you last night but got interrupted. now i find myself a little uninspired. i don't feel like i can say it in two words.

HOWEVER, FWIW

Quote:

That would be so cool if wearing clean clothes every day would help. What an idea to consider that wearing clean clothes would help with bipolar depression. How did she come up with that?
:( The same way lots of professionals do! This is not the discovery of the century, it is good clinical practice to encourage good personal hygiene. And other personal routines. As for the method of "encouragement" used, that is another kettle of fish.

I personally DO NOT think your therapist is an idiot!

I personally DO think that wearing clean clothes and showering regularly can, YES, help bipolar disorder. (once a day is a negotiable example of regularity, is how i see it.)

I am a bit irritated right now because LOTS AND LOTS of STUFF PEOPLE HAVE GONE GAGA over - links to self-help etc that have been posted on this forum - talk about how having a routine etc, getting physical exercise etc, help. We all "Thank" those articles when they get posted and give advice... take a walk, a warm bath... bla bla bla. some articles are more aggressive than others, about getting up dressing up showing up etc... putting on makeup??? :rolleyes:
Now suddenly people are flipping out here over the same things?
Aren't we throwing out the infamous baby with the dreaded bathwater here?
Consistency anyone?

Bobby,

If you were able to do those things daily/regularly, i do believe you would feel better... gradually. Self-grooming has a psychological impact. It won't make you thinner, but self-grooming is an act of love, of physical commitment to oneself... in a "body is your temple" sort of way. It could help you not hate your body as much for however much adipose tissue it might have gathered.

Getting off Zyprexa was not a matter of luck by the way. After I went up that last clothing size I told my pdoc right away, "look i keep packing on more weight, and i'm to the point of being uncomfortable with myself - I don't want to gain another ounce because then i am really going to hate my body." He took me OFF it immediately, leaving it for use only over a few days for more acute states. He got my hating my body was going to hurt my moods in the end, no matter how well the med worked otherwise.

It doesn't sound like your T expects you to make changes gradually?

What i see as the more likely problem is your being asked to do too much too fast, considering ALL of your situation. Sure i think it would help (if you could get there), but being something unreasonable (for now) it is just plain discouraging, counterproductive. In this sense, the suggestions, to this degree, in the here and now, are not helpful to you at all - i do agree with that 100%.

It's like the old Nike ad: "JUST DO IT." like the old Nike ad. I hate that ad. It so does not work with depression for me - it's like, if i could do this stuff, i wouldn't be in therapy!!! But occasionally someone else who had (BAD) depression told me it hadn't worked for them but it was working at some point. I think it depends on a lot of subtle aspects too. And I don't personally care for the word rules in this context but i don't know how that came up.

Sometimes a therapist will make a first attempt to spur the patient - then, if it doesn't work, other kinds of approaches are made. That is what could be happening.

I think it's absolutely fine for you to be angry and the fact that you feel totally misunderstood and your situation misunderstood needs to be brought to her attention very very clearly - and perhaps repeatedly. I suspect your physical difficulties are likely being under-estimated. One thing i like about this woman is that she sees potential in you and is trying to bring it out. You know, even your anger is a psychologically active and not passive response - which is good. Go with the anger... take it from there.

I had to work with my therapist on various things - and with some the confrontation was hard on me and it took several attempts. other times not so hard but was almost ready to give up when he finally got it. the thing is no relationship is going to be smooth-sailing. and if you like this person, i think it is worth sharing your anger with her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mari (Post 594742)
Work with her. Think of this as a teachable moment. It will take some energy but it will be worth it in the long run.

i really think this is what it's all about right now.

It is of course always up to you if you want to change therapists at any time. All i can say is no therapist is perfect, and liking this one as a person is a good sign. I have had huge objections about my therapist, questioned his competence and all - and thought about terminating on several occasions - but usually the imperfections "matter more" when he has upset me somehow. He is good in some ways. He is not as good in others. He is a good person however and if i started with someone else everything i have "worked out" relationshipwise with him, would have to be re-established. Working on the relationship is a big part of therapy, and the better that gets, the better help you will get.

I hope i haven't upset you. i am trying to be totally frank and then of course you may not agree with what i say but i don't want to just post reactionary stuff on your therapist even if that might be a comfort right now, like a statement of being on your side and where your T is on some other side. I AM on your side, regardless what you do with your therapist.

You hang in there. Keep reading and hanging out with your kitties. :) I'm very glad to hear about your breakthrough with the fear of death and God - that is really huge. Good luck with the Celexa - i took it for a while you know. it was ok, i mean nothing awful with it, certainly no weight gain, and it was effective. i hope the same for you.

love

~ waves ~

mymorgy 11-29-2009 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mari (Post 594731)
Dear Bobby,

Can you talk to her?
Maybe ask her what she sees as her role.
And then for example, tell her you do not need her for instructions. Or, for that matter, rules. We've got enough rules.
Let her know that you are working on being compassionate toward yourself and others and forcing yourself to bathe and shower everyday is not compatible with that.
Tell her what your focus IS.

Let her know exactly how she is helping and how she is not.
Tell her what you do need her for.
Give her suggestions on what you need help with.


Basically, redirect her and give her a different focus.
Maybe the both of you can find a way for her to actually help you.

M.

Yes i didn't realize it but i am working on being compassionate finally to myself after all these years. My close friend thought that in older age it was a time for giving. That got me furious because like you since I was a very young child, I started with the giving and the neglecting. Who knows maybe not wanting to bath frequently is a rebellion although the thought of it is still stressful. The crappy thing is that I do feel very compassionate most of the time towards others and I want to help. At this age and stage I can't figure out how and I feel so empty. So far it doesn't feel good to try to feel compassionate towards yourself. It feels selfish and self absorbed and makes me realize how alone I am. That doesn't make sense either. I now have a therapist and a psychiatrist. I have a woman who comes in to clean and she is even cooking for me twice a week at .75 a hour courtesy of the department of aging. She is a sparkling gem. On Friday she even tried to cook some domican republic food that she bought in a store and was going to have for her own meals. I give her a lot of things but still feel guilty at her hard work while I am doing nothing. I mentioned my friend Robert who has been walking me around the block with wonder dog Mickey. He thinks I should get a dog which would force me to go outside and walk better and he probably thinks the responsibility would be good for me. I am tormented over this. What if the doggy got sick. It would mean more vet bills. Also I went through the heart ache of Snowball being sick most of his life and then dying young. I wouldN'T trade a minute of having that incredible deep souled kitty cat in my life. What a gift from God. Then I went through the hell of Morgy having bone cancer. He handled it so nobly.
Now I am just so confused. I keep on getting flooded with dreams. I have no idea what they are telling me. The therapist doesn't do dream analysis. I tell her I have terrible problems sleeping,-a lot of times I just get three hours- and the medications don't help the depression. I AM SO CONFUSED. I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WANT TO WORK ON. EVERYTHING IS SUCH A MESS AND I FEEL I HAVE NO DIRECTION EXCEPT TO TRY TO LOSE WEIGHT AND TO GET BACK INTO BETTER SHAPE SO I CAN WALK MORE THAN AROUND THE BLOCK.
bOBBY

mymorgy 11-29-2009 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mari (Post 594742)
Bobby,

That would be so cool if wearing clean clothes every day would help. What an idea to consider that wearing clean clothes would help with bipolar depression. How did she come up with that? :eek:

Is she actually an idiot? :mfr_wha:
'Sorry not being helpful here.


Work with her. Think of this as a teachable moment. It will take some energy but it will be worth it in the long run.

I'm going to bed.

M.

i giggled at your response. it would be cool if we could just do something external and then feel peace of mind. I think we have to get rid of the ego to have peace of mind but then how would we defend ourselves and separate when somebody is giving good advice or easy advice. You are right this is a teachable moment. What shall I teach her? How it feels to be bipolar and have had different therapists and feel still so misunderstood.
Bobby

mymorgy 11-29-2009 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waves (Post 594756)
Dear Bobby,

i had started a longer reply to you last night but got interrupted. now i find myself a little uninspired. i don't feel like i can say it in two words.

HOWEVER, FWIW


:( The same way lots of professionals do! This is not the discovery of the century, it is good clinical practice to encourage good personal hygiene. And other personal routines. As for the method of "encouragement" used, that is another kettle of fish.

I personally DO NOT think your therapist is an idiot!

I personally DO think that wearing clean clothes and showering regularly can, YES, help bipolar disorder. (once a day is a negotiable example of regularity, is how i see it.)

I am a bit irritated right now because LOTS AND LOTS of STUFF PEOPLE HAVE GONE GAGA over - links to self-help etc that have been posted on this forum - talk about how having a routine etc, getting physical exercise etc, help. We all "Thank" those articles when they get posted and give advice... take a walk, a warm bath... bla bla bla. some articles are more aggressive than others, about getting up dressing up showing up etc... putting on makeup??? :rolleyes:
Now suddenly people are flipping out here over the same things?
Aren't we throwing out the infamous baby with the dreaded bathwater here?
Consistency anyone?

Bobby,

If you were able to do those things daily/regularly, i do believe you would feel better... gradually. Self-grooming has a psychological impact. It won't make you thinner, but self-grooming is an act of love, of physical commitment to oneself... in a "body is your temple" sort of way. It could help you not hate your body as much for however much adipose tissue it might have gathered.

Getting off Zyprexa was not a matter of luck by the way. After I went up that last clothing size I told my pdoc right away, "look i keep packing on more weight, and i'm to the point of being uncomfortable with myself - I don't want to gain another ounce because then i am really going to hate my body." He took me OFF it immediately, leaving it for use only over a few days for more acute states. He got my hating my body was going to hurt my moods in the end, no matter how well the med worked otherwise.

It doesn't sound like your T expects you to make changes gradually?

What i see as the more likely problem is your being asked to do too much too fast, considering ALL of your situation. Sure i think it would help (if you could get there), but being something unreasonable (for now) it is just plain discouraging, counterproductive. In this sense, the suggestions, to this degree, in the here and now, are not helpful to you at all - i do agree with that 100%.

It's like the old Nike ad: "JUST DO IT." like the old Nike ad. I hate that ad. It so does not work with depression for me - it's like, if i could do this stuff, i wouldn't be in therapy!!! But occasionally someone else who had (BAD) depression told me it hadn't worked for them but it was working at some point. I think it depends on a lot of subtle aspects too. And I don't personally care for the word rules in this context but i don't know how that came up.

Sometimes a therapist will make a first attempt to spur the patient - then, if it doesn't work, other kinds of approaches are made. That is what could be happening.

I think it's absolutely fine for you to be angry and the fact that you feel totally misunderstood and your situation misunderstood needs to be brought to her attention very very clearly - and perhaps repeatedly. I suspect your physical difficulties are likely being under-estimated. One thing i like about this woman is that she sees potential in you and is trying to bring it out. You know, even your anger is a psychologically active and not passive response - which is good. Go with the anger... take it from there.

I had to work with my therapist on various things - and with some the confrontation was hard on me and it took several attempts. other times not so hard but was almost ready to give up when he finally got it. the thing is no relationship is going to be smooth-sailing. and if you like this person, i think it is worth sharing your anger with her.



i really think this is what it's all about right now.

It is of course always up to you if you want to change therapists at any time. All i can say is no therapist is perfect, and liking this one as a person is a good sign. I have had huge objections about my therapist, questioned his competence and all - and thought about terminating on several occasions - but usually the imperfections "matter more" when he has upset me somehow. He is good in some ways. He is not as good in others. He is a good person however and if i started with someone else everything i have "worked out" relationshipwise with him, would have to be re-established. Working on the relationship is a big part of therapy, and the better that gets, the better help you will get.

I hope i haven't upset you. i am trying to be totally frank and then of course you may not agree with what i say but i don't want to just post reactionary stuff on your therapist even if that might be a comfort right now, like a statement of being on your side and where your T is on some other side. I AM on your side, regardless what you do with your therapist.

You hang in there. Keep reading and hanging out with your kitties. :) I'm very glad to hear about your breakthrough with the fear of death and God - that is really huge. Good luck with the Celexa - i took it for a while you know. it was ok, i mean nothing awful with it, certainly no weight gain, and it was effective. i hope the same for you.

love

~ waves ~

your thoughtful post upset me a little but it had a lot of wisdom. I think i do feel i am waging a battle with her now. She is Greek and was raised in Egypt. Right now i feel I would rather ask her what it was like being raised in Egypt.
Even Dr. Moussavian told me that taking a shower every day is invigorating.
I really do feel like a child rebelling. I have always had trouble with authority and took a test my last year at Penn as to what profession I should go into.
I came out high on becoming a fireman because they are the most anti authority. Right now I really don't feel connected to anybody. I felt so connected with my schnauzer Morgy and my kitty cat Snowball. Right now I feel so isolated. A lot of the time, I feel I HAVE GIVEN UP
LOVE
bOBBY

waves 11-29-2009 12:08 PM

Dear Bobby
 
hi again...

i wish i could have said things without even upsetting you that little bit. :( i did the best i could but i was afraid of that all the same. i thought about not posting but i did my best and hoped the good would outweigh the bad. ... i'm sorry for upsetting you. :o anyway, thank you for the feedback and i am glad what i said was useful to some extent. :o :hug:

i have felt like i was waging a battle with my T before. LOL. Maybe you should ask her what it was like to be raised in Egypt... perhaps she will ask why you ask LOL that would be a typical therapist response ;) ... but even so, she might answer you, and it could be interesting provide insights... i have sometimes asked personal questions before, to know "where the T is coming from" ... i don't mean geographically lol but cultural aspects can certainly have an impact!

I want to say, THE FACT you are walking around the block is itself REALLY REALLY GOOD. It will take time sure but you will get stronger. And when you get physically stronger and you WILL be able to walk MORE than that. it takes time to build that up - but it will happen.

And I agree about excessive showering being bad for the skin - frequency depends very much on the climate and degree of physical activity and type of skin you have. I recall you have sensitive skin. This is where "regularity" i think is a better (i hate to use the word) "rule" than "every day." And even then, you build up from where you cannot do, to doing a little, then a little more... the old baby steps thing.

one thing you can point out to your therapist is that you ARE working on the hygiene thing - by taking the walks, because showering is exhausting and you are still in the "acquire stamina" stage. And assert that in any case, you get to decide your "ideal frequency" in terms of your skin, etc - not her. That can apply to clothing too especially if you do not move around much, do not sweat much, and have multiple layers.

as for the authority thing. well, i get that too. yesterday my dad walked into the kitchen and asked my mom about something being done or what. and i was like i'd hate to have him for a boss. i doubt i'd last a full day before he fired me for incompetence or i quit out of anger. Because THE number one way to block me is to BREATHE DOWN MY NECK about something, set up artificial RULES and keep reminding me of them and of deadliens. did i mention i didn't like that word? it's not overall rules i so much dislike, it's when people try to shove them in my face.

if you feel like she is shoving stuff in your face, she needs to hear that from you, and she needs to know about the authority/rebellion thing. if you already told her - tell her again. ;)

one last thing. when i have felt really really upset with my pdoc/T, i have on occasion taken breaks - disclosed or undisclosed (sulks). i don't know if you have a frequency obligation for visits with her for seeing Dr. M. also it depends on how the anger is... the flipside is when too much time passes, the confrontation may not be as effective because the emotional charge is not there, and that is part of the message in therapy too.

and i know what you mean about not having money to spend to go out and do stuff... anything... every little thing costs money anyway. i don't even contact old coworkers or former friendly acquaintances i'd like to see, because most would be available at night - and it is unsafe for me to come home with public trans, and i can't do the cab fare any more. not even once in a while. i live too far out of the city.

i have been very passive for several years now and it makes me feel desperate. the walks will help with that too. they really will. walking helps your brain chemicals. :) and you can only do what you can do - good job, and keep doing it. it will increase. (and most likely you will start losing weight after a while, too!)

love
~ waves ~

p.s. believe it or not the last confrontation with my therapist involved positive reinforcement/pressure. i got angry but also very hurt/upset and had to take a break. but we sorted it out. he listened. i hope your therapist listens to you. GOOD LUCK with this. :hug::hug::hug:

bizi 11-29-2009 12:08 PM

Taking a shower everyday requires a change in habits, creating a routine.
I thrive on routines and have never gotten in the habit of showering everyday.
In fact I have to force myself to shower.
I don't know what it is that I resist...for one it is the effort that is involved, I consider it a luxury using up all of the hot water, have long hair that takes time to wash and then dry, self care items....
I wish I could jump in the shower and take a quick shower, some people can jump in there and spend 5 minutes. It takes a long time for me.
In fantasy land, If I could get up in the mornings then I could take a quick shower and get ready, hair all fixed nicely....but I am not normal.
I don't know....I sympathize with you...maybe you could do a trial run...say that I will take a shower in the evening for one week and see how I feel.
Maybe I could do this myself.....
bizi
they say it takes 3 weeks to make a habit.....
I am not motivated to change I guess.....

Mari 11-29-2009 03:58 PM

Your pets / walking
 
Dear Bobby,
I don't have pets and never had.
When I was a child we had some outside cats and dogs that I was close to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mymorgy (Post 594774)
He thinks I should get a dog which would force me to go outside and walk better and he probably thinks the responsibility would be good for me. I am tormented over this.

Yes. He wants to help you.
I've seen the studies that having a dog can add years to people's lives by virtue of helping them stay on a schedule.

It could be a very good idea for you.
But you know if you are up to it or not.

You could get an animal who is very healthy and has a strong disposition.

But I can see your concerns because I don't want to deal with that. It would be heart breaking for me. My sis has two rescue dogs. They both get allergies. One is a little worse off -- needing bathing with special soap, twice daily doggy Benadryl, and and so on.


Quote:

The therapist doesn't do dream analysis. I tell her I have terrible problems sleeping,-a lot of times I just get three hours- and the medications don't help the depression. I AM SO CONFUSED. I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WANT TO WORK ON. EVERYTHING IS SUCH A MESS AND I FEEL I HAVE NO DIRECTION EXCEPT TO TRY TO LOSE WEIGHT AND TO GET BACK INTO BETTER SHAPE SO I CAN WALK MORE THAN AROUND THE BLOCK.
Yes, I understand your frustration about dream analysis.
But I don't think that many of them do this.
You could analyze your own dreams by first recording them.
If that is something that helps you, then focus on your dreams.


You do have direction. Loosing weight and walking are very good things.
Ask your tdoc to give you guidance with that. She will help you.
You have to see her anyway. Tell her what you need from her.
These are good because they come from strong desires of your own (not imposed by her.)
I'm glad that you are walking. Do you feel better after you have walked?


Regarding teachable moments:
I think that 90-95% of the time the therapists can go by the training /expereince they have before they see you.
The other 5% of the time they need to stretch.
And we can push them to stretch so that we can benefit from the time with them.
Also, this is off topic -- but only a bit -- by teaching them how to help us, we help them to become better therapists.

M.

Mari 11-29-2009 04:06 PM

authority
 
Dear Bobby,

Quote:

Originally Posted by mymorgy (Post 594784)
Even Dr. Moussavian told me that taking a shower every day is invigorating.

Of course he thinks it is a good idea. It works for him.


Quote:

Originally Posted by mymorgy (Post 594784)
I really do feel like a child rebelling. I have always had trouble with authority and took a test my last year at Penn as to what profession I should go into.
I came out high on becoming a fireman because they are the most anti authority. Right now I really don't feel connected to anybody. I felt so connected with my schnauzer Morgy and my kitty cat Snowball. Right now I feel so isolated. A lot of the time, I feel I HAVE GIVEN UP

I think she pushed some buttons for you.
This is what you get to talk to her about.
Discuss these exact authority issues with her.
Let her do some work instead of spouting stuff that works with 90% of her other patients.

I like firemen too. They "get" it. They are extremely responsible and and follow rules and regulations. Yet they are cowboys in that they can't really take direction. -- at least that is my impression.
Would that work for you? . . . . talking about how you tested and so on? Maybe if she had that info about how you see yourself, she can be more useful to you.

M.

waves 11-29-2009 11:04 PM

Dear Bobby
 
want to leave you some

((((((( HUGS )))))))

is all.

:heartthrob::circlelove::heartthrob:

~ waves ~

bizi 11-30-2009 12:55 AM

Thank you for posting bobby,
you are not alone, we are here for you.
keep posting I hope we are helping....
we are listening to you
((((HUGS)))))
bizi:grouphug:

mymorgy 11-30-2009 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waves (Post 594793)
hi again...

i wish i could have said things without even upsetting you that little bit. :( i did the best i could but i was afraid of that all the same. i thought about not posting but i did my best and hoped the good would outweigh the bad. ... i'm sorry for upsetting you. :o anyway, thank you for the feedback and i am glad what i said was useful to some extent. :o :hug:

i have felt like i was waging a battle with my T before. LOL. Maybe you should ask her what it was like to be raised in Egypt... perhaps she will ask why you ask LOL that would be a typical therapist response ;) ... but even so, she might answer you, and it could be interesting provide insights... i have sometimes asked personal questions before, to know "where the T is coming from" ... i don't mean geographically lol but cultural aspects can certainly have an impact!

I want to say, THE FACT you are walking around the block is itself REALLY REALLY GOOD. It will take time sure but you will get stronger. And when you get physically stronger and you WILL be able to walk MORE than that. it takes time to build that up - but it will happen.

And I agree about excessive showering being bad for the skin - frequency depends very much on the climate and degree of physical activity and type of skin you have. I recall you have sensitive skin. This is where "regularity" i think is a better (i hate to use the word) "rule" than "every day." And even then, you build up from where you cannot do, to doing a little, then a little more... the old baby steps thing.

one thing you can point out to your therapist is that you ARE working on the hygiene thing - by taking the walks, because showering is exhausting and you are still in the "acquire stamina" stage. And assert that in any case, you get to decide your "ideal frequency" in terms of your skin, etc - not her. That can apply to clothing too especially if you do not move around much, do not sweat much, and have multiple layers.

as for the authority thing. well, i get that too. yesterday my dad walked into the kitchen and asked my mom about something being done or what. and i was like i'd hate to have him for a boss. i doubt i'd last a full day before he fired me for incompetence or i quit out of anger. Because THE number one way to block me is to BREATHE DOWN MY NECK about something, set up artificial RULES and keep reminding me of them and of deadliens. did i mention i didn't like that word? it's not overall rules i so much dislike, it's when people try to shove them in my face.

if you feel like she is shoving stuff in your face, she needs to hear that from you, and she needs to know about the authority/rebellion thing. if you already told her - tell her again. ;)

one last thing. when i have felt really really upset with my pdoc/T, i have on occasion taken breaks - disclosed or undisclosed (sulks). i don't know if you have a frequency obligation for visits with her for seeing Dr. M. also it depends on how the anger is... the flipside is when too much time passes, the confrontation may not be as effective because the emotional charge is not there, and that is part of the message in therapy too.

and i know what you mean about not having money to spend to go out and do stuff... anything... every little thing costs money anyway. i don't even contact old coworkers or former friendly acquaintances i'd like to see, because most would be available at night - and it is unsafe for me to come home with public trans, and i can't do the cab fare any more. not even once in a while. i live too far out of the city.

i have been very passive for several years now and it makes me feel desperate. the walks will help with that too. they really will. walking helps your brain chemicals. :) and you can only do what you can do - good job, and keep doing it. it will increase. (and most likely you will start losing weight after a while, too!)

love
~ waves ~

p.s. believe it or not the last confrontation with my therapist involved positive reinforcement/pressure. i got angry but also very hurt/upset and had to take a break. but we sorted it out. he listened. i hope your therapist listens to you. GOOD LUCK with this. :hug::hug::hug:

that was weird about positive reinforcement....did you think you were being infantalized. I think we have so many rules and regulations ourselves that for somebody else to lay them on us is the proverbial straw. I am afraid if i tell her I have authority problems, it will give her a passage way out to explain why i am responding to her advice. She doesn't get what is like living on three hours of sleep. she also doesn't realize when you feel so much pressure internally, how that extra outside pressure really does you in. today it is raining and i don't know if I am going for the walk with Mickey tonite. I want to cancel because I am chilled and so tired but I am afraid to. Push push push. I can't take a break from the therapy because they have a system at the clinic about missing too many appointments. The clinic is mostly for ex addicts. This is awful also because even at this age, I am attracted to troubled men. I already have crushes sort on three troubled men. One got himself off heroin by himself. Can you believe it?
Never apologize for trying to give me help!
Love
Bobby

mymorgy 11-30-2009 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizi (Post 594794)
Taking a shower everyday requires a change in habits, creating a routine.
I thrive on routines and have never gotten in the habit of showering everyday.
In fact I have to force myself to shower.
I don't know what it is that I resist...for one it is the effort that is involved, I consider it a luxury using up all of the hot water, have long hair that takes time to wash and then dry, self care items....
I wish I could jump in the shower and take a quick shower, some people can jump in there and spend 5 minutes. It takes a long time for me.
In fantasy land, If I could get up in the mornings then I could take a quick shower and get ready, hair all fixed nicely....but I am not normal.
I don't know....I sympathize with you...maybe you could do a trial run...say that I will take a shower in the evening for one week and see how I feel.
Maybe I could do this myself.....
bizi
they say it takes 3 weeks to make a habit.....
I am not motivated to change I guess.....

I don't think I am motivated to change in this way either. I also never liked taking baths or showers at night. There is something I find depressing about that. I don't like routines. I really like my freedom even though I don't know what to do with it now except read. Yesterday, my cleaning woman surprised me and called to see if she could come over and have me type something. It was in Spanish. She brought her sevenyear old daughter who I find delightful.
I really enjoyed myself even though I didn't know if I was making typos or what because I had a hard time distinguishing between her a's and e's and also the punctuation.
Bobby

mymorgy 11-30-2009 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mari (Post 594852)
Dear Bobby,


Of course he thinks it is a good idea. It works for him.




I think she pushed some buttons for you.
This is what you get to talk to her about.
Discuss these exact authority issues with her.
Let her do some work instead of spouting stuff that works with 90% of her other patients.

I like firemen too. They "get" it. They are extremely responsible and and follow rules and regulations. Yet they are cowboys in that they can't really take direction. -- at least that is my impression.
Would that work for you? . . . . talking about how you tested and so on? Maybe if she had that info about how you see yourself, she can be more useful to you.

M.

I am afraid that the more information I arm her with, the more she will stereotype me. If somebody comes in every other week and says they can't sleep and they are usually depressed, shouldn't you throw away the rule brought and try to be supportive...almost like working from scratch. I agree with you about firemen....I wish I had their courage or counterphobia. I don't think my therapist has the enthusiasm a young idealist therapist might have and take that stress. My issues of aging might also be getting to her....just a guess. I do find her feminine which I told her and which she liked and I like her finding humor in things I say. Sometimes I think she thinks I am ridiculous.
I also get the impression nobody walked over her and she doesn't understand the psyche it builds up.
I guess I really want her to do some work unless she truly thinks I am hopeless
Bobby

mymorgy 11-30-2009 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mari (Post 594851)
Dear Bobby,
I don't have pets and never had.
When I was a child we had some outside cats and dogs that I was close to.


Yes. He wants to help you.
I've seen the studies that having a dog can add years to people's lives by virtue of helping them stay on a schedule.

It could be a very good idea for you.
But you know if you are up to it or not.

You could get an animal who is very healthy and has a strong disposition.

But I can see your concerns because I don't want to deal with that. It would be heart breaking for me. My sis has two rescue dogs. They both get allergies. One is a little worse off -- needing bathing with special soap, twice daily doggy Benadryl, and and so on.




Yes, I understand your frustration about dream analysis.
But I don't think that many of them do this.
You could analyze your own dreams by first recording them.
If that is something that helps you, then focus on your dreams.


You do have direction. Loosing weight and walking are very good things.
Ask your tdoc to give you guidance with that. She will help you.
You have to see her anyway. Tell her what you need from her.
These are good because they come from strong desires of your own (not imposed by her.)
I'm glad that you are walking. Do you feel better after you have walked?


Regarding teachable moments:
I think that 90-95% of the time the therapists can go by the training /expereince they have before they see you.
The other 5% of the time they need to stretch.
And we can push them to stretch so that we can benefit from the time with them.
Also, this is off topic -- but only a bit -- by teaching them how to help us, we help them to become better therapists.

M.

I don't know if I am up to having a doggie or not. I think my therapist is probably going to retire soon and I get the impression she knows what she knows and doesn't necessarily want to strain herself to know more.
I feel a little better after I walked but the dread of it is awful....even with Robert and Mickey. I usually am always physically tired. I also don't know how much depression plays into it. Last night i did watch home videos on tv...did i ever laugh my head off. I became hysterical. I didn't think it was in me. Then I watched the football game with the Baltimore Ravens to see Michael Oher play, the guy that Blind Side is about. I used to watch a lot of football years ago and then lost interest. I wonder now because of that movie how many women might start watching.
I am too tired when I wake up to write down my dreams. I probably should. I do tell Dr.Moussavian things to help him help other patients. Boy that doesn't sound humble
Bobby

Mari 12-01-2009 05:07 AM

some more thoughts
 
Dear Bobby,

Occasionally we get someone who is the right person sent from the universe to help us at the particular moment for a particular set of issues. That does not seem to be the case with this therapist.

Most of the time, the people we see in our travels through the health care system are trying to do a good enough job for what they need to do. For sure she is not maliciously trying to cause you difficulty. That I am sure. She thinks that she is helping you.

( The fact that she needs a clue bat is another story -- http://www.frontiernet.net/~joe14580/clue%20bat.jpg ). ;)

At times when I could not get a read on someone I made up their back story based on what info I did have about them. I would make up their whole story as if I were drafting an outline for a novel, including where they lunch, their relationship with their mother, how they managed in school, and so on. Later, if I did end up finding out more about them, often my game of imagination was close enough to right to have been useful. . . . I’m not suggesting that. I’m just sharing a strategy I have used.


I wonder if part of the difficulty you are having is that you want to be a little bit closer to her. You are able to connect to Dr. M., the friend who walks with you, the other patients at the clinic, your cleaning lady and her child, but not so much to the therapist. Are you frustrated by not being able to stick a pin on her? Or is it that you have defined her pretty accurately and decided that you don’t like her?

You already figured out her story and are not too happy about it I gather.


Here is an idea you already have:
You can flat out lie to her. Tell her that you have made efforts toward the bathing / changing clothes thing. This way you don’t have to be upset. Let her do her thing. Your goal is to see her every two weeks to be able to see Dr. M. You can do that. The higher purpose is Dr. M. and you can tolerate her until time that something changes (she starts to be more useful for your needs or she leaves or whatever. . . )

Make sure that some things that she says do not upset you and that you leave therapy in peace. It’s only therapy and it’s only every two weeks. You can handle one session with the woman every two weeks.

‘Concerned about you.


M.

mymorgy 12-01-2009 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mari (Post 595266)
Dear Bobby,

Occasionally we get someone who is the right person sent from the universe to help us at the particular moment for a particular set of issues. That does not seem to be the case with this therapist.

Most of the time, the people we see in our travels through the health care system are trying to do a good enough job for what they need to do. For sure she is not maliciously trying to cause you difficulty. That I am sure. She thinks that she is helping you.

( The fact that she needs a clue bat is another story -- http://www.frontiernet.net/~joe14580/clue%20bat.jpg ). ;)

At times when I could not get a read on someone I made up their back story based on what info I did have about them. I would make up their whole story as if I were drafting an outline for a novel, including where they lunch, their relationship with their mother, how they managed in school, and so on. Later, if I did end up finding out more about them, often my game of imagination was close enough to right to have been useful. . . . I’m not suggesting that. I’m just sharing a strategy I have used.


I wonder if part of the difficulty you are having is that you want to be a little bit closer to her. You are able to connect to Dr. M., the friend who walks with you, the other patients at the clinic, your cleaning lady and her child, but not so much to the therapist. Are you frustrated by not being able to stick a pin on her? Or is it that you have defined her pretty accurately and decided that you don’t like her?

You already figured out her story and are not too happy about it I gather.


Here is an idea you already have:
You can flat out lie to her. Tell her that you have made efforts toward the bathing / changing clothes thing. This way you don’t have to be upset. Let her do her thing. Your goal is to see her every two weeks to be able to see Dr. M. You can do that. The higher purpose is Dr. M. and you can tolerate her until time that something changes (she starts to be more useful for your needs or she leaves or whatever. . . )

Make sure that some things that she says do not upset you and that you leave therapy in peace. It’s only therapy and it’s only every two weeks. You can handle one session with the woman every two weeks.

‘Concerned about you.


M.

I really do have ambivalent feelings towards her. I sort of feel that she thinks her suggestions are the best for me and that they would really help me if i followed her advice. I think she isn't dealing with my situation. Since the market crashed and I lost most of my money, I have been sleeping about three hours a night. Before I was sleeping four or five hours a night. She doesn't get that I am really physically tired most of the time. She doesn't get it that I am so self critical, her suggestions are making me feel bad about myself. that is so counter productive. I will have to tell her that and emphasize that so that she gets it. I am feeling more wired now that I have reduced the dosage of risperdal. I do feel more alive but worry about becoming hypomanic on little sleep. I am getting ready to crash. That is what has been happening since i don't get enough sleep.
bobby

bizi 12-01-2009 10:47 AM

WEll then you must feel like a time bomb waiting to crash, that feeling should be weighed against the feeling of the decreased risperdol. were you sleeping more at the higher dose?
or not really.
sleeping is so needed for us are you getting some naps in?
(((((HUGS)))))
bizi

waves 12-01-2009 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mymorgy (Post 595322)
I really do have ambivalent feelings towards her. I sort of feel that she thinks her suggestions are the best for me and that they would really help me if i followed her advice. I think she isn't dealing with my situation. Since the market crashed and I lost most of my money, I have been sleeping about three hours a night. Before I was sleeping four or five hours a night. She doesn't get that I[ am really physically tired most of the time. She doesn't get it that I am so self critical, her suggestions are making me feel bad about myself. that is so counter productive. I will have to tell her that and emphasize that so that she gets it. I am feeling more wired now that I have reduced the dosage of risperdal. I do feel more alive but worry about becoming hypomanic on little sleep. I am getting ready to crash. That is what has been happening since i don't get enough sleep.
bobby

I agree with you 100% about telling her all of this, and emphasizing it however much is needed so that she gets it. Her job is to deal with your situation, and it also seems to me from what you have said, that she doesn't get the picture. She may have some idea of you feeling tired - but not HOW tired. It's beyond tired, it's fatigue. And it isn't just weight, or just being unfit, or just the meds, or the diabetes, or... on top of it all, "just" having pernicious anemia! EACH of those causes fatigue. And you have ALL of them!!! Yes, drum it in.

Maybe you can get across to her. I hope so! :o

Am i reading right... you feel as though you are running hypomanic? That's a toughie to balance out with "feeling more alive." I know just how THAT feels because i feel that way tapering my benzo! But i did start to lean hypo. Call Dr. M if you are sleeping even less, since lowering the risperdal OR starting the Celexa. Celexa is an SSRI remember... so that could be affecting you too. Let him know if you sense that you could be getting hypo. Maybe you metabolize it slower than most people, and if so, you might do well on a smaller than typical dose.

glad that you are being vigilant. hang in there.

love

~ waves ~

mymorgy 12-02-2009 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waves (Post 595412)
I agree with you 100% about telling her all of this, and emphasizing it however much is needed so that she gets it. Her job is to deal with your situation, and it also seems to me from what you have said, that she doesn't get the picture. She may have some idea of you feeling tired - but not HOW tired. It's beyond tired, it's fatigue. And it isn't just weight, or just being unfit, or just the meds, or the diabetes, or... on top of it all, "just" having pernicious anemia! EACH of those causes fatigue. And you have ALL of them!!! Yes, drum it in.

Maybe you can get across to her. I hope so! :o

Am i reading right... you feel as though you are running hypomanic? That's a toughie to balance out with "feeling more alive." I know just how THAT feels because i feel that way tapering my benzo! But i did start to lean hypo. Call Dr. M if you are sleeping even less, since lowering the risperdal OR starting the Celexa. Celexa is an SSRI remember... so that could be affecting you too. Let him know if you sense that you could be getting hypo. Maybe you metabolize it slower than most people, and if so, you might do well on a smaller than typical dose.

glad that you are being vigilant. hang in there.

love

~ waves ~

I have been getting around three hours sleep since the market caved in. I tried raising the risperdal to see if that would help with sleep but it didn't.
i have been crashing the past two days. I have to work on having faith and trust in God and that I am overworrying about what would happen to me if I run out of money. Then I think I could sleep more. I am also begging to deal with feelings of abandonment and rejection. I feel the pain. Maybe I could discuss those issues with her and see what she comes up with for combatting the childhood residue.
Love
Bobby

waves 12-02-2009 03:34 PM

yes those are some good ideas
 
Dear Bobby,

i think you have some good ideas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mymorgy (Post 595742)
I have been getting around three hours sleep since the market caved in. I tried raising the risperdal to see if that would help with sleep but it didn't.

gosh. so the celexa isn't causing it. yikes. i hate to suggest more klonopin you are already taking plenty. and, as i mentioned, i am tapering my benzo and noticing more energy - when i suggested to my pdoc that perhaps it has been subtley robbing me of energy and even causing apathy he said that was indeed quite possible. and when i didn't sleep due to worry... that was even less energy. i'm realizing now those meds can be a bit of a catch-22.

Quote:

i have been crashing the past two days.
crashing as in more sleep, or crashing as in mood down?
Quote:

I have to work on having faith and trust in God and that I am overworrying about what would happen to me if I run out of money. Then I think I could sleep more.
yes, i think that would help. also, have you tried deep belly breathing exercises? it is a mechanical way of inducing a more relaxed state.

Quote:

I am also begging to deal with feelings of abandonment and rejection. I feel the pain. Maybe I could discuss those issues with her and see what she comes up with for combatting the childhood residue.
that sounds like a good idea. give the sessions a good ol' change of direction. perhaps she will be able to come through in that area. and if you are actively suffering from it, now's a good time to try to tackle it. if it is too much you can always back off. you are the client and you get to pick what to work on. :) :hug::hug::hug:

love
~ waves ~

bizi 12-02-2009 05:19 PM

This is true bobby,
you get to decide what you work on in therapy.
good advice waves.
hugs to you today
((((((HUGS)))))
bizi

mymorgy 12-06-2009 03:07 PM

i just feel so awful. i have a cold on top of everything. right now i don't seem to care about anything and i am asking God for his forgiveness but I guess he knows I can't help it and that i really am grateful but just can't feel it.
It is just so painful
Bobby

bizi 12-06-2009 03:43 PM

oh bobby,
I do hope that you are feeling better soon.
I give you some suggestions, rest when you can.... pretend to take a nap if that helps, snuggle up with a good book, drink plenty of warm fluids, be nice to yourself, give yourself a hug a real hug from me.
I am sorry you are struggling so.
(((((HUGS))))
bizi

mymorgy 12-06-2009 05:45 PM

my friend Attie said i am going through impotent rage and can't fight the suffering. it will just make it worse. I just took a bubble bath which made me feel a little better and orderedchinese food with a big container of soup.
I will ask Dr.M if he can raise the celexa. i am upset about not taking my walk with robert and wonderdog mickey and am afraid i am losing momentum. I just feel awful
bobby

bizi 12-06-2009 07:58 PM

I am sorry you feel awful...wish you felt better.
((((HUGS))))
bizi

Mari 12-07-2009 03:12 AM

Sorry about having to deal with a cold on top of what you already have.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mymorgy (Post 597149)
my friend Attie said i am going through impotent rage and can't fight the suffering. it will just make it worse. I just took a bubble bath which made me feel a little better and orderedchinese food with a big container of soup.
I will ask Dr.M if he can raise the celexa. i am upset about not taking my walk with robert and wonderdog mickey and am afraid i am losing momentum. I just feel awful
bobby


Dear Bobby,

Getting a cold devastates me in term of my mood. I sometimes treat the cold like a setback in stead of opportunity to take a break and rest and be easy on my self. The best thing to do is wait it out. It will pass. It is a cold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mymorgy (Post 595742)
and that I am overworrying about what would happen to me if I run out of money. Then I think I could sleep more. I am also begging to deal with feelings of abandonment and rejection. I feel the pain. Maybe I could discuss those issues with her and see what she comes up with for combatting the childhood residue.
Love
Bobby

Yes, tell the tdoc about your issues. Ask her to help you. She can handle that kind of request.

Bobby, you will be able deal with the rage . . . maybe try going around it instead of through it.


Mari


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