MMTR Clinic in Canada --Your opinions.
 

I came across this clinic on youtube by watching various testimonies and I have emailed them.

What do you think about the science behind this? Or in general? Thank you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNKYGuxCgUU

http://www.mmtr.ca/science-of-myoworx/

I have been finding that there are a few concussion clinics out there like these and would really like to go and see one! But I don't want to waste money and scared about the legitmacy of these.

Thank you.

I too considered it and my spouse had a long chat with the owner. I am dubious about the claims....there is no peer reviewed research to back it up; if the machine is so wonderful, why has it not been adopted or bought by others; the owner does not make it clear that he DOES NOT have a PhD (he writes ABD after PhD but it takes a university person to know that means he did his coursework and some exams but did not write the research thesis....a key part of the PhD), etc. Also, look at the list of conditions and diseases that he claims to be able to treat....pretty extensive and far fetched.
I think what helps some people is that his clinic focusses on the neck....which will help a lot of people ... But the same as if they went to a good physio /physical therapist.
Having said all that, if I lived right there and had a load of money, maybe I would try it! I am desperate, after all. Like many here.
If you haven't done so already, maybe you should post about your symptoms and you can get some good advice from the great people on this site.
It is hell....and I can completely understand your search. :(

We have discussed MMTR many times here. As Mokey stated, he makes many claims that are not supported by evidence. His worst claim is the comments about FDA approval. He has never received any FDA approval. I take great exception to such false claims.

There is a saying, even a broken clock is correct twice a day. This to say, there are always patients that fit a specific profile to greatly benefit from these 'proprietary' protocols. The same is true of chiropractors and physio-therapists. There can be a specific patient-therapist relationship where the therapist has skills that uniquely help a specific patient. I know that I need to search for that specific therapist or chiro.

The important issue to understand is that therapist that is great with my body can be of little value to someone else.

This goes for Dr Carrick and his chiropractic neurology as well as MMTR.

btw, MMTR treats the issues with the neck and shoulders, not the concussion symptoms.

Thank you everyone.

I've been reading a lot about the chiropractic neurology and neck and spine in relation to PCS. I at first doubted it because I knew my PCS was from when I had gotten punched in the head numerous times. How do you think spine and neck issues or pinched nerve issues would apply to my case? I've thought about people hitting thier heads and then maybe experiencing whiplash. But what do you think about my situation?

So this why I do have doubts. How would neck and spinal or shoulder issues be connected to my PCS migraines?


Thank you again.

Blue,

I doubt either system will be much help for you. For now, you need to focus on getting on a stress reducing regimen with a brain friendly diet. You need to determine what your symptoms are when you have a stable daily schedule of activity and diet. Then, you start working on each symptom. There is NOTHING that will help a multitude of symptoms.

After a week or two of a stable daily schedule of activity and diet, you should get a sense of your ongoing symptoms. You should also be able to feel a bit better as things settle down. Anxiety and constantly pursuing a quick fix is counter to getting better.

Can you post a list of your symptoms and how often they manifest ?

Dear Mark,

Thanks for your reply.

My symptoms are chronic Migraine with left eye light sensitivity. I do feel its better in the morning and when i'm lying down then it starts to get progressively worse as the day goes on and at night.

Thanks again.

I attended MMTR from July-October 2011. I was away on a work placement for half of that time period so it meant a 4 hour commute to the treatments. I was desperate for a cure for my PCS and nievely optimistic this would be the answer.

The neck treatments, massage, stretches and exercises did help somewhat. When I went in for an appointment I generally came out feeling slightly better than I came in (part of this may be because I was laying down & resting for ~1 hr while hooked up to the machine and then the massage treatment). However, I was extremely frustrated that after 4 months I did not have the results I was promised. The owner/inventor (Terry Moore) frequently shared stories of clients back to sports within 6 weeks; yet my progress continued to be painstakingly slow.

I would say, yes if you live close, have physio coverage through health insurance/ money is not a concern; give it a try, as I don't doubt it does help some people, just not all. I will admit, sometimes I will still do the neck stretches they gave me and it may alleviate the headache.

The concerns addressed earlier in the thread I certainly agree with
-Terry Moore (inventor/clinic owner) PhD ABD=all but dissertation (ie he didn't really finish degree) and he is NOT A MEDICAL DOCTOR - so its kinda sketchy he's the one behind the treatment and he's not a real doctor. Yes, the physiotherapists there do the assessments, but I was not too impressed with them.
-The assessment involved testing strength such as doing planks (which I found ridiculous and unnecessary for someone recently concussed- not a good idea to subject to physical exertion when clearly experiencing symptoms at rest)
-I found they worked on the neck so much (the whole theory behind the treatments) that when I stopped, my neck was worse off than before I started. I had my neck assessed by an athletic therapist who I trust (before I began MMTR), and he did not find any neck issues. But after I have stopped going I find my neck is stiff/sore moreso than it was before - I attribute to because it was worked on so much with the electrostimulation machine, massage, streching etc. and then to stop.

I will admit it did help my morale while going to treatments as I was optimistic it would really help. Having the stretches and exercises to do helped me feel like I was actually doing something to speed up the recovery and satisfied the inner athlete in me to have a "exercise" program to stick to. However, this made it a big let down when I made very little progress after faithfully attending MMTR for 4 months and I and my dad sacrificed sooo much to attend this clinic.

I'd be happy to answer any other questions as I have experience at MMTR

You had to try. I understand, as we all feel rather desperate to get our lives back and stop the pain. Thanks so much for taking the time to share your experience. Hang in there!

Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. Good luck to you.

RE
 

RE: MMTR

Comeback,

I was wondering if you could tell me more about MMTR? I'm almost 2 months in from my injury and I'm willing to try anything to help. I'm headed to Buffalo to see Dr Leddy and start the regulated exercise porgram and I'm thinking about going to MMTR if that doesnt work.

Did you notice any improvment after the completion of the treatment? Did you keep up with their strict post treatment regiment?

Thanks.

pcsroc,

Welcome to NeuroTalk. If you read comeback's entire post, you will see he did not find any benefit from MMTR. "However, this made it a big let down when I made very little progress after faithfully attending MMTR for 4 months and I and my dad sacrificed sooo much to attend this clinic. "

comeback made these comments last April. he has not been on NT for quite some time.

Please tell us about yourself and your injury. There are plenty of good people here to offer support.

My best to you.

pcsroc,

Did you have a more specific question? As Mark mentioned, my thoughts were pretty well summed up in a previous post. I stuck with their regimen extremely closely while attending treatments from Jul-Oct 2011. Now I only occasionally do some of the stretches and arm lifts. I really don't feel there was any meaningful improvement for me that can attributed to the treatments.

I do wish I had spent more time resting earlier on in the injury, so while there is a small chance these alternative type treatments may help; I think most of the time proper rest is one of the best things you can do. If there is an underlying issue such as a neck problem, it is important to get it addressed, but don't spend too much time chasing "a cure" as often rest is the best medicine. That's what I have learned from my experience anyway.

MMTR Follow-up
 

I must say I am still incredibly frustrated by my experience at MMTR. They have no rigorous scientific evidence their protocol is effective and extensively post YouTube videos of their post-concussion success stories, and of course with no mention of all the patients they could not help.

Upon further research, I found the Ontario College of Physiotherapists states physiotherapists cannot use testimonials, and I believe these YouTube videos they continually post are a form of testimonials. I acknowledge the treatment may help some, however I am very upset on how much of a sacrifice I made to attend this clinic and how much false hope I was given. With conditions such as post-concussion syndrome, people become desperate for a cure or any kind of relief (as I was) and so when a health professional makes such a claim that they can help, people will do whatever it takes to see them.

Sorry for the rant, but it has been over 2 years since I attended the clinic and I still feel great hurt and disappointment over the experience. I repeatedly made a very long drive; with a commitment of significant time and funds, and was repeatedly assured by the owner that I would see results, that never came.

Different people will have different experiences, but I just wanted to share mine as the YouTube videos they post are certainly not the whole story.

Hi comeback_kid,

I am so sorry to learn of your disappointment.

I would like to encourage you and/or your Dad to post a video on YouTube to express your opinion about your experience there. Maybe less people would have the same false hope that you were given if they could easily learn and access it along with the positive opinions of the same clinic on the same website.

Don't blame yourself though. My spouse called them too...and it sounded too good to be true. the thing that turned me off was that the lead physio was masking the fact that he did not have a PhD...no big deal if you don't, but he referred to his PhD studies and let that stand.
Thanks for sharing. Hang in there! I would try anything in my darkest days if someone said it would help.

Before recently completing a series of treatments at MMTR I browsed this forum heavily to get a sense of MMTR. I joined this forum to give you guys my two cents.

My symptoms are intermittent and come only with any kind of contact to my head or sudden jerking of my neck and they dissipate in anywhere from a matter of hours to a day or two.

After completing the treatments I have had some unintentional contact to my head that has not resulted in symptoms. After almost a year of the slightest contact leading to symptoms, I attribute this to MMTR's treatment.

I too was wary of the fact that their approach has not yet been peer reviewed but I was impressed by the sincerity with which they answered my numerous inquiries over the phone over the course of more than 2 hours. I was also impressed with the steady flow of patients into the clinic over the course of my time there. As far as I can tell MMTR does not advertise and I found them only after researching my options. I have concluded that (at the very least) some people are getting good results and they are in turn referring people to the clinic. If you have any doubts I would encourage you to call and speak to the director himself. I myself spent several hours with him off the clock on the phone and in person. Yes, you read that right, several hours off the clock. If nothing else, the man is extremely genuine and sincere in his wish to help.

All that said, if you are considering MMTR you have two options. Wait for them to published in a peer reviewed journal or go digging around as I did and give it a shot.

(Mark in Idaho, I respect your skepticism and I would love for you to pick up the phone and speak to Moore himself. I have no doubt he would take your call.)

I would not be interested in talking with MMTR until they refute their claim of FDA approval. There will never be a peer reviewed article or study. He is a one man show. If his technology was so good, he would be more open about it. He would be selling his system, too.

I don't doubt that some people get benefit from his protocol. Whether it is legitimate improvement or placebo from extensive hand holding, there are always going to be alternative treatments with anecdotal claims to improvement.

His 'research' claims an improvement in 74% of patients based on a self-reporting questionaire. Positive reinforcement/positive thinking placebo effect often achieves 60% improvement. It would be interesting to see a double blind study.

He claims to be a concussion expert but there are far too many ways a concussion can cause persistent symptoms that massage, physiotherpay and his electro stim system will not help. If he can help with cervical injury caused symptoms, that is great.

A busy clinic is meaningless.

Mark,

From what I understand, there is an independent study under way, but they were understandably unable to give me details.

I believe you are too easily dismissive of the volume of patients. I can see where you're coming from. The staff is very positive and caring and one risks coming away from treatment quite optimistic. I can see how a placebo effect is quite possible. However, if the high volume of patients I witnessed was entirely attributable to placebo effect referrals, then that is one hell of a placebo effect.

As for FDA approval, I can't seem to find this claim on their website. Is it prominently displayed?

Mark, you are effectively dismissing decades of research as providing no more than a placebo effect. The burden of proof remains on MMTR, but you should at least be open to discuss your reservations with Moore. I think we would all benefit from such an exchange.

His clinic may have high patient traffic but that does not mean they all are concussion patients. He promotes MyoWorx for many ailments. As I said, if it helps with cervical injuries connected to concussions, that is great. But that is not healing a concussion. His treatments are muscle oriented. The neurological (brain) component of concussion is often beyond any muscle issue.

His system may help some but it is not a cure-all. Your experience is of limited scope. Great that you feel it helped.