Thread closed at OP Request: Internist gave me a starter sample pack of Strattera
 

Hi,

1. My mdoc gave me a sample starter pack of Strattera.

2. Also she told me she would like me to take 15 grams of fish oil -- told me to find a brand with a high concentration of EPA. (She was very specific about the 15 grams.)

Mari

Starter pack has 30 pills
 

Hi,

The pack has thirty capsules in these sizes:

Days 1,2,3,4,5 --- 25 mgs

Days 6,7,8,9,10 --- 40 mgs

Days 11,12,13,14,15 --- 60 mgs

Days 16-30 --- 80 mgs

I am sure that 80 is too high. I wonder if I can split the capsules.

Mari

I guess mine come 500 mg per capsule so that is 3 of the nordic fish oils.1500 mg = 15 grams I think.
my pdoc told me I needed to take fish oil capsules with the ratio of epa to dha 4:1 ratio. needed for brain function.
nordic naturals makes them they are called epa and I found them on amazon cheaper than in the drug stores.
this is doable.
these are tolerable and lemon flavored but don't have any flavor really and no fish burp.
bizi

I was wrong about the fish oil numbers. 1000mg is equal to 1 gram. So she wants you to take 30 fish oil capsules a day?
That is crazy!!!!!!!!! correct me if I am wrong here.
bizi

It does sound crazy. I wonder what literature she read.
 

Bizi,


I am going to check my notes. I wrote on a scrap of paper that I put somewhere. She said it was going to be a lot of pills. She emphasized that it would be a lot.

Mari

may I ask why she wants you to take that many? I think I would like to see some journals from scholars on that one. I have a hard enough time just taking my 2 a day.
wow
bizi

Bizi,

I do not know why.
I would have to find my scribbled notes from yesterday and my life is a big mess right now.
I will look someday.
Right now I store my scraps of paper in one pile/ bag.

Regarding doses: This chart shows studies for fish oil for treatment of bipolar:
http://www.psycheducation.org/depres....htm#FishTable
Dr. Stoll's early and important study (1999) said 9.6 grams. Others on the chart used less.

Dr. Phelps (the guy who runs the web site) says the higher the EPA in the pills, the fewer pills you need because the EPA is important
--- although I recently read somewhere that it is not only abut the EPA.
The DHA plays an important too.

The current fish oil pills that I have in my house come in 1 gram sizes.
(1000 mgs)
http://www.evitamins.com/fish-oil-1000-mg-spectrum-7710
They do not feel too big for me. For the past week I have been trying to remember to take 2 a day (2 grams).

She did tell me why she wanted me on them.
I do not remember.


Mari

The nortic naturals have the highest epa to dha ratio 4;1. that is what my pdoc wants me to take, she sells it there but I buy mine from amazon for cheaper.I would ask her how much epa she wants you to take.
bizi

30 caps = live frogs
 

Hi Mari

have you been trying the strattera? if so... seeing any benefit?

===========

also did you figure out/find notes on the fish oil? I was told 3 g a day (= 3000mg) for mood by an MD who has had some training in alternative medicine. i've also come across that same dosage reading. that is the fish oil mg not the EPA mg.

i took some... hated it - it was fishy. but i think it is possible to find omega-3 supplements high in EPA that don't have the fishiness. i can't remember if my pills were 1000mg (3 pills for 3g/day) or 500mg (6pills for 3g/day) but as i was also taking GLA supps - not fishy but more big caps nonetheless, i know i was not managing to take all of the 3g it was just too much *stuff* to swallow.

with Bizi's caps which have the good EPA content ... 30 pills a day seems just *outrageous*. :thud: even taken 10 at a time, 3x a day.. man! ... i'd feel like i swallowed a live frog! :eek: blehhhh!

if you can't find your notes, perhaps you could call her and tell her you lost your notes, could she give you the doses again. if says 15mg then the next time you see her you could say you don't feel comfortable with it and ask her if she would mind expounding on her reasons and her sources.

perhaps i will do some more research on this myself. 30 biggg capsules? GULP. :Noooo:

RIBBET! RIBBET!

waves

The nordic naturals(called EPA) that I get from amazon with the higher epa don't have a fishy taste but only have 500mg per pill so two equals the 1 gram.
bizi

will check if i made arithmetic/unit typos? also re: receiving oil supps via mail...
 

yes i did the arithmetic - 500 mg means 30 pills to get 15 g... ;) hmmm... did i have a typo somewhere? hmmm i will check, since you are pointing out the conversion?

that's great they aren't fishy. i think mine were by "Mar-Vit" ? not sure if that is sold in the US. i wonder if you can find that brand in a health store near you somewhere. stores that deal in those products should have a transportation process in place that guarantees the integrity of the product. why do i say this...

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/im...cons/icon4.gif i would be very cautious about buying any sort of supplement online or any way that involves shipping. i would especially avoid having oil-based supplements shipped to me because during travel shipments may end up held in areas (units, compartments) with very high temps. those oils are susceptible to chemical changes that happen very quickly with heat exposure.

if oil becomes rancid, not only would its ingestion not be beneficial, but it would actually be harmful. since they are in capsules you would not know if they are rancid. and if they are "off" but not rancid yet, you would not know even if you opened them and tasted it.

15 capsules --- not 30
 

Waves,

I did not take the Strattera as the starter pack has me bumping up to high doses too fast. And, as one of the side effects is drowsiness, I decided it would not be useful right now.
I walked in asking for Ritalin. She said she never wrote a script for Ritalin but had for Adderall.
I said that Adderall would be good. Then she started talking about Provigil and Nuvigil and I ended up with Strattera ???!!!!!!.

All I wanted was some Ritalin!!!! And she had agreed to ritalin in the appt before.? :(


This is the fish oil I can buy locally:
http://www.evitamins.com/fish-oil-1000-mg-spectrum-7710

The past four days I have been taking three pills (3 grams).

I am not comfortable buying supplements on-line during the warm months when stuff shows up to my place after it has been baking in the sun. I might buy some Omega Brite as soon as I can get a chance now that it is still early May.

http://www.omegabrite.com/products/gelcaps.html
It is a lot of work to stay alive right now.
I am doing the best I can.

Mari

having a hard time
 

I am worn out physically and emotionally.

Working is hard with barely any sleep.

Each day feels harder.

Mari

Wow mari that is great with the high levels of epa! that is awesome.

I am sorry you are having to try to function on little sleep.
Can't imagine how difficult that must be for you.
(((((HUGS)))))
bizi

I would ask her to be specific in how much EPA she wants you to take, that way you can then decide what kind and brand that you want to buy. It is not the number of pills that matters it is the amount of EPA that she is suggesting that you ingest. For example my nordic naturals has 425mg EPA in each pill.
bizi

EPA and DHA serve different purposes, but both are beneficial
 

well i would not jump the gun on the EPA being the only relevant thing here. we do not know why the doc suggested the fish oil. as i see it, it would be good to ask the doc her reason for suggesting the fish oil, to find out whether EPA intake all she is after and/or to discuss what a suitable ratio of EPA to DHA would be, for her purposes.

because it's not like DHA is junk. while DHA and EPA have some common properties, each offers distinct benefits that the other does not.

the following article suggests that if one takes a lot of DHA they should supplement with GLA as well. however the ratio of the two would depend on what your goal is.

link: What Are the Real Differences Between EPA and DHA?

To reduce cellular inflammation, you need more EPA than DHA.
Published on April 1, 2012 by Barry Sears, Ph.D. in In the Zone


the article goes on to explains the distinct benefits of EPA and DHA. EPA is strongly anti-inflammatory at a cellular level. the article emphasizes that if one seeks an anti-inflammatory effect, then EPA is the relevant oil. However, DHA is important in making membranes more fluid. both are important at a neurological level.

my pdoc wanted me to take one that has a 4:1 ratio. Omega brite has a 7:1 ratio.
interesting.
bizi

better when docs are more specific
 

7:1 might serve better if one is purely after anti-inflammatory benefit. but if one is interested in improved neurological function, a more balanced supplement might be more appropriate. the article suggests a 2:1 ratio even for anti-inflammatory purposes, however i imagine these recommendations on dosages vary... there are likely to be different studies with differing conclusions in these areas.

that's why i think questions need to be asked of the prescribing doc.

Bizi i think it is good that your doc suggested a specific ratio to you. i think that is relevant, and helpful.

OT / "Omega Brite" light bulb
 

the name "Omega Brite" conjures up the image of a light bulb for me. Brite makes me think of light. and the greek letter omega is used as a symbol for ohms ... and sounds like "ohm" which is a unit measure of resistance.

the classic incandescent lightbulbs consisted of a tungsten filament which, creating high resistance when current was applied, emitted light.

Waves,

Right. And one needs to remember the GLA.

Fish Oil is available by prescription:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovaza
Omega Brite (high EPA) was studied for mood disorders.
My mdoc spends 35 mins a visit with me. We go over a lot of ground (most of the time is maybe spent with mini arguments.) It's o.k. that she did not explain everything. I have another appt in 2 months.
I need her mostly for the FMLA paperwork for my job. She is wonderful for that.

Mari

Yes, it is a cool name.

M

new sound
 

I saw Tom Odell on David Letterman tonight:
. . .. doing piano and vocals . .. he has a band behind him.

Tom Odell - Another Love (Live on Later with Jools Holland)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Om7njMOSA

four hours of sleep
 

Even though I went to bed on time, I was awakened early.

I had four hours of sleep and today have lots and lots of stuff going on at work that require my concentration.

We are expecting huge rain storms.
I am focusing on staying alert for driving.
And I am going to try not to talk to people as much as I normally would.



M

Sunny day
 

I thank Goodness that the rain that was all around my spot of town stayed away from me and kept me dry.
(Parts of town had deluges that made the record books for the amount of rain fall.)
I stayed dry except a dozen sprinkles on my windshield two miles from home.

Today was a much longer day than I anticipated.
I came home with Chinese food for hubby and me.

I love the bubble tea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_tea


http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/p...792585b55e.jpg

Here is a recipe:
http://www.bubbleteasupply.biz/bubble-tea-recipes (too complicated to make at home)

Mari :)

bubble tea? oh my!
 

Glad that fortune found you in regard to the rain showers today.

you know, i have never drunk, seen, or even heard of bubble tea before!!! :o this is like... WOW! and i have tried some pretty strange drinks in different Asian restaurants. i've never even seen it on a menu at Chinese places. it looks and sounds tantalizing. i did look at the recipe and it isn't something i can attempt at home - that's even if i could find the (very specific) ingredients. oh well. an addition to my long list of things to try "someday".

hope you enjoyed your take out and have a relaxing evening after the long day. TGIF anyway. it's the weekend ... kick back ... ;) :hug:

waves

yes kick back and relax.
sleep when, if you can, are able to sleep.
bizi

Hi, Waves,

They have a chewy consistency. It feels weird to chew one's drink. I discovered the tapioca bubbles have a laxative affect.

M

Talk with boss re FMLA
 

-->>I announced to my boss that I would not show up at 9:30 for her small b.s. event. I agreed to be there at 10:00 a.m
-->>I informed my boss that I would not attend the big huge event six days later that starts early in the morning and goes all day in the heat.

I told her my FMLA file was up to date.

She asked about that again.

I told her that my neurologist said I have a difficult and complicated sleep disorder. I cannot be at work in the morning and I should be working at night.


I suppose I should feel relieved, but I am too exhausted to feel appropriate emotions.

M

Glad that you were able to stick up for yourself and tell her your needs.
bizi

Good for you Mari

This is the first step in the procedure.

donna:grouphug::hug:

good job talking to your boss, Mari. i hope that irons things out for a while, in terms of preventing unreasonable requests of you.

I hope you are able to catch some rest in too, between work. Sometimes I am too strung out or too exhausted to be able to react fully to something emotionally taxing... it takes me time to process and the reaction sort of evolves and bubbles up. i am sending you some hugs. :hug::hug::hug:

Speaking of bubbles thanks for telling me about the chewiness of the bubbles - that sure is interesting. i once had a Vietnamese drink made with beans in the bottom -yes beans. hehe. it was too long ago to remember the other flavors, but i agree, it is weird to chew one's drink. ;)

waves

some degree of stress involved
 

Hi,

Last time I only had my MD do paper work.
This time, HR wants an additional form to process in order to request leave: "Family and Medical Leave Act Request Form."

My boss then has to sign it / approve.

This process is somewhat stressful.
I suppose I have to
~call HR later today,
~email the boss today,
~find her Tuesday/ tomorrow to sign the form, and
~return the form to HR.

Mari

good luck with all of that, it does sound a bit stressful.
bizi

Difficult to "pass" as o.k.
 

I am so stressed out.


The meetings are hard for me because I have to work very hard to act normal. Under difficult circumstances, normal is hard to fake.
I am so frightened that I will do or say the wrong thing and yet I am expected to participate.

Mari

I am sorry it is so hard for you
(((((HUGS)))))
bizi

your experience of yourself vs. how others experience you
 

Dear Mari

I understand the fear. It adds to your stress level, too unfortunately.

Here's my take (short version):
-- your perspective on your own actions will be much more critical than that of others. not to mention fear tends to skew our perspective in a negative way.
-- even if you do screw up by others' definition, it will not seriously undermine their opinion of you.

Longer version:
Let's say you don't manage to come off all the way "normal" - by your definition, or say or do something wrong - or even blow gaskets. You know what is behind it, and you feel yourself falling apart, but others will just see you having a bad day. They may wonder if it's PMS (lol) or deduce you are stressed out (true). Regardless what they deduce or assume, I don't believe it will affect their overall perception of your competence. You have good history behind you. You won't destroy that by acting "off" now and then. Even if it's very off.

See, I was pretty freaky deaky at the last permanent job I had, as well as another in my past. In both cases there were times when I was quite "off" when i was having episodes. In the earlier job, although pre-dx, I knew something was off because I felt like I couldn't "read people" like I normally could. Retrospectively I was out there. For starters I was paranoid: certain of being followed around and of being spied in my house via microcameras etc. That's in general. At work, I felt completely incompetent and was terrified of doing something wrong or just coming off badly. In both workplaces, I often felt I was just a hair away from being fired. Yet, in both cases, despite concrete behavioral shortcomings and errors indeed made, my value as perceived by others was not undermined. I am quite sure of this because in both cases, when I quit, decisive efforts were made to retain me.

I am sharing this experience because I too was extremely, extremely fearful when I felt myself "off". I suspect your situation is similar to those I described because you are a well established and valuable staff member at your place of work.

On the one hand, there are your feelings, fears and perceptions on your actions. On the other, there is what others make of stuff that goes down. I am sure the two are quite distinct.

"I was much too far out all my life
And not waving but drowning." - from a poem by Stevie Smith

the thing is Mari, only we feel the undertow, and the abject fear of going under. Others watch from the shore, see us thrash about ... but do not know about that undertow... they think we are waving.

waves

Waves,

You are right.
When I am in a wild mood, though, I am a little bit cranky and more willing to to go beyond the bounds of politeness than other people are.

I interrupt much more than others do-- some folks want to talk in paragraphs and I am comfortable making a short remark in the middle of one of their paragraph in agreement or as an aside
I talk louder than others.
I point out the obvious.
I bring up something that has been festering for years and that everyone is ignoring for the moment.
I can get very close to cursing when everyone else is super polite.
I fidget or worse I wave my arms and get quite animated.
Depending on the group, I can get bossy and for example remind everyone to stay on task.
Or I get everyone way off task in order to keep myself looking mostly within normal range.
I walk in and out pretending to go to the rest room or check my phone multiple times. . . . .

Most of the time, I survive a meeting by saying as little as possible, . . .
I try to be a few minutes early, sit near the door, and leave whenever I want to (i.e. half way through the b.s. . . .. )

The fear of going outside the boundaries too much and too consistently is a fear.

Don't want to go in to work -- might freak out ---
 

I am freaked out about having to deal with paper work, two meetings, and some other things Tuesday.
The first meeting is total 1000% bs but the one that matters to the boss. The second one is substantial EXCEPT that
~Monday night we had to turn in data and
~Tuesday afternoon we are expected to have collected said data, analyzed the data, and made decisions about the future based on our analysis. :eek:
(Not possible in any remotely real world.) :hissyfit:



Tonight instead of going to bed, I
~defragged and anti-virused my lap top so it is ready for the first meeting,
~did my nails,
~cleaned my purse,
~ran the dishwasher with eight dishes,
~pre-prepared my breakfast for the blender, and
~watched 45 mins of tv.


My alarm has been set for 8:30.
I am not going to make it through the day.

At some point I will mention that I have a huge headache and have to go home.

OR I might freak out in front of everyone and carry on about the absurdity of trying to be o.k. on three or three and a half hours of sleep.

M

I understand
 

Waves,

You went through a lot to keep those jobs. Your work was good but you were hyper aware of how you were perceived -- that vigilance essentially was a second job on top of the job you were already doing. :(

A few months ago, one of my friends was running a meeting with me sitting next to him. He was distressed and really upset by the end of the meeting )(He is usually very calm.) He was troubled afterwards and told me how much chaos/ tension/ interupting, off task talk had been going on(can''t remember what term he used). I was causing most of the problem but he did not see it that way because we are friends.
I did decide to miss the next too meetings so he would not have a chance to figure out that I was a problem.

I am carrying on too much.
Wil stop for now.

M