New push for statins
 

I guess we'll be seeing new posters here trying to figure out why they have PN...after a few months of their new statin.

There is a new big push for statin use, even when levels may be well within range! CNN is running this story on their news show every hour.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/12/health...html?hpt=hp_t3

May seem odd coming from me, since I personally still take a small dose, because I have CAD, stroke history, and autoimmune disease (which is actually a worse risk factor then diabetes, CAD, and high LDL combined). But my doctor & I decided to use the lowest dose possible (which is much lower then recommended).

But it is sad that they now want to push these on many more then ever before.

DW & I were just discussing that story minutes ago with morning coffee. IOO, it's got Big Pharma written all over it. She stopped statins over a year ago, & controls her cholesterol with slo-niacin.

Doc

But at the same time, if I heard correctly, they are not recommending statins based on cholesterol numbers alone which has been the case for many.

It just infuriates me!

We NOW have photographic evidence of the damage to nerve cells statins cause. I'll put that link up here for those coming to this thread:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0510150143.htm

This is not really "new".... I recall a Newsweek article years ago where doctors said statins are so safe, you should put them in our DRINKING WATER.

A year or 2 ago, they were suggesting children be treated routinely. Our Pediatrician told us children are SUPPOSED to be higher in cholesterol because they are GROWING and need it.

Poison our children? Poison our water? This is just a desperate ploy because the patents are gone, and no new statins are being approved by the FDA. This is just a last "push" to make more money before the whole topic is exposed, and dries up eventually! (like TransFats, that poisoned us since the mid-30's!)

This generalizing the treatment to increase sales, is because the cholesterol MYTH has been revealed and debunked pretty well now. So they need NEW guidelines supposedly to keep the flow of $$ coming in. There was once a push for MS patients to use statins...what did they find? That statins inhibit growth factors the nerves make to fix damaged neurons!

Then there was the "anti-inflammation" claims.... Well, it has been learned that curcumin gave the same benefits as Lipitor in a large study to reduce inflammation!

I tend to turn off Dr. Gupta... except when he showcases patients who have overcome obstacles. But he is just a paid mouthpiece for medical propaganda most of the time. Vaccines esp!

Yes & no. Out of one side of their mouths, they're saying, "Ignore the numbers." Out of the other side, they're saying if you have a bad cholesterol level more than 190, "you should be on a statin. Period."

IMO that's not ignoring numbers; it's just (as the new guidelines recommend) putting twice as many people on statins as are on them now without even examining diet, lifestyle, or trying other measures.

(Paraphrasing...) "No, you won't get me, you Slithery Dee!" :mad:

No... strike that. Make that, "Slithery P" (for Big Pharma)!

Doc

Heard it and right away we said Big Pharma written all over it. :mad:

I'll add here for other readers, Dr. Jay Cohen MD's link.

He has a book explaining how doses of statins are way too high in his opinion, and many people respond to much smaller ones, with less risk.

http://www.jaycohenmd.com/otherdrugs.html#lipitor
This is the information I shared with en bloc a while back while she was considering statin therapy.

I read his book a while back and gave it to my doctor so I don't have it anymore. But it was interesting and worthwhile.

Also people on statins really have to use CoQ-10 because the statins block the enzyme that makes this vital nutrient for ourselves. Without it the heart and muscles suffer. One study found that after 5 yrs of statin treatment about 1/2 of the CoQ-10 capability was lost.

There are quality forms of CoQ-10 now, that are more soluble and useful in smaller doses. Qunol is one (at WalMart and Costco) and another called Q-gel. One can get by with about 100mg a day of this new type. Whereas the oil type capsules would need at least 300mg a day.

You know this propaganda thing in medicine and politics has totally gotten to me this fall. I've had it with vaccine propaganda, statins propaganda, the Congress, the ACAct, EVERYTHING....I've HAD IT!

I just cannot take it anymore. The shutdown personally impacted us, and even sent my blood pressure up, which I discussed with my doctor!

So.... no more CNN for me. Little if any news, even, for a while.

Anything hugely important will trickle down to me I suppose. Hubby can dispassionately handle it, so he will be my source for a while.

I am starting some new drawings, using the new colored pencils that I just acquired at Blicks and Ebay....most of them were not on the market when I was active in the past with my art. Then the push for college fund came and I was working too much and too tired for the art. Then I was ill long term with that lisinopril debacle, so now, bye bye CNN and others.... hello to new activities! ;)

Here is a quote from that CNN article on this thread:
Maybe some further questions should be:
1) do you wear clothes?

2) do you eat food?
:thud:

My heart sank today when I saw this on the morning news. My elderly mother believes all this propagada bullcrap and she thinks if it is on the news then it's true, bless her heart.

I said to my hubby, if I get high cholestrol I will take my chances cuz I am never getting on statins.

...and I am proof that a smaller dose works. I take 1/4 of the original recommended dose and my levels are staying good and I appear to be doing fine at this dose. I also take the Qunol CoQ10...even though my dose is small.

The news spot I saw gave two scenarios where the total cholesterol was over 200. They then went through a quick run down of each person's risks to determine if a statin would be helpful. In one it was and in the other not. Their point was that in the past, both would have been put on a statin.

That must not have been the new CNN piece. This doubled the numbers of those that should take statins, with 4 groups now in the criteria. All over 190 level is in the group to take it...along with 3 other risk groups.

My brothers & parents are on statins per their #, 1 bro did have some sort of minor heart episode a few years ago but he is very type A & high stress...
My mom thinks I should be on statins too, but she believes the standard hype and whatever the drs say...


I was on lipitor 2003-4, and then learned about the muscle soreness and various other not so good things statins can do..so stopped it. I think it contributed to my RSI/TOS work injury symptoms..(was in the same time frame..)
Last few times I had blood work - chol is 300+ and triglycerides 500 or so..
But my grandmother lived to be 96 and had no heart problems, but she did have Alzheimer's for the last 10 yrs of her life..
I often wonder if maybe the high cholesterol had something to do with that???

I have cut out most junk food, fast food, fried foods, desserts, upped use of olive oil, so I am curious to know if # have changed at all..
Might go get it checked one of these days just to see where I'm at..

my main nutritional vice is coffee w/ half n half & 2 spoons of sugar..:)

I read a few books that mentioned the triglyceride #'s may be more important related to overall health issues. It was years ago I don't even recall the titles or authors.. one may have been about inflammation and overall health.

Here is a new "wrinkle":

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread197087.html

New family of drugs threatened by the new cholesterol guidelines?

My doctors keep bringing it up and I just tell them I don't need any more muscle pains or another medication. As it is, now my cat is on 3 medications that I have to administer 3 times a day poor thing.

Natural alternative
 

My doctor took me off statin drugs saying to take Red Yeast Rice since this is the natural product from which statins are made. Also check out Dr. Sinatra website he is a cardiologist that has good website and good products.
Statins make drug companies billions of dollars and they cause issues also

The "push" seems to be worldwide. My GP was complaining a month ago that "if I follow the new guidelines I literally have to put 90% of my patients on statins". She was looking at her new desk pad which was kindly provided by one of the major brands, and contained those "guidelines". :rolleyes:

She was genuinely upset.

I'm sure--
 

--this topic is going to come up at our Long Island Neuropathy Group support meeting tonight. And I'm probably going to be called on to explain the oxidation chemistry again, and provide some internet links --not that I think any of the patients really want to hear it, but the medical people who come sometimes do. :D

The fact, of course, that most of the medical people have no idea that statins should be looked at really carefully in those with neurological and muscular symptoms--I'm willing to say that they should be contraindicated in those with neuropathy and myopathy--is, of course, part of the problem.

Yes, this all smacks of Big Pharma trying to squeeze more money out of existing medications before other competing medications from rivals hit the market--and of those rivals trying to create a bigger market for those new medications coming down the line. I'm not as familiar with the chemistry of some of these newer proposed injectable cholesterol meds, so I suppose I should be doing some research. But a number of them are based on niacin and fish-oil, which we have, of course, discussed for their cholesterol and triglyceride helping properties. (Big Pharma, of course, would like to make into prescription meds those things we can get over the counter.)

We've had a number of discussions on this and other boards that the more important numbers to watch for heart disease risk are triglyceride and C-reactive protein numbers. High cholesterol alone does not result in forming artery-narrowing "plugs"; it takes an injury and inflammation to the vessel wall to start the process of plaquing. I understand why high cholesterol numbers--especially low density numbers of certain levels (LDL) are found more disproportionately in those with coronary artery disease and circulatory disease, but such people have other factors in combination with the LDL numbers that result in adverse events, and while some doctors/researchers are aware of this, too many, and too many media sources, just oversimplify the discussion to "cholesterol=bad".

Is red rice yeast safe??

My Mom was told to take this and I know she does. I am just wondering if it really works, it's safe, and if any brand is ok to take since it's kinda like fish oil, a million different kinds.

It's not as if--
 

--there aren't opposing views.

This was just posted in the New York Times editorial section today. The comments posted after the article are interesting as well:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/14/op...s-statins.html

Nice article! Thanks Glenn!

I have a physical coming up later this month; I'm taking a copy of this article (and others if/when I find them)... just in case. :cool:

Doc

Take a copy of the photo of the damaged neurons too!

That one is a powerful photo!
It is on the Science Daily link in this thread.

I have been reading a lot about Berberine.:)

Some more interesting videos:

http://smartpei.typepad.com/robert_p...drugs-why.html

The Statin Nation:

http://www.29billion.com/

Unfortunately the full video has a price. But the trailer is free.

I think we know what is in the video already!;)

An 8min video how statins kill cells:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF_3miYtuDM

This last video is very sobering.

Everyone contemplating statin therapy should read this document first:
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/sites/de...atin_drugs.pdf

My curiosity made me order The Statin Damage Crisis. I'm only half way through and I now thoroughly hope that the author is exaggerating, or plain bonkers.

Problem is, I don't think that's the case.

I knew of some of the problems - especially the PN - and it's pretty common for serious journalists here to really wonder if everyone who takes it actually needs it.

After reading this book I seriously wonder if *anyone* should ever take statins.

You can combat inflammation with diet and omega3 - and inflammation really seems to be key when it comes to heart problems. That's why statins work, not because they lower cholesterol. But they eliminate so much, and works so crudely, that it not just lowers inflammation, it damages your immunity system. (and creates a host of other problems)

Unless I'm just reading a bad dream, and someone corrects me and the author. Nuclear Factor kB is a real thing, right? And statins work via inhibiting NFkB right?

I'm shocked.

Yes, it is real:

http://www.whale.to/a/gupta7.html
Dr. Graveline MD quoted on this link, is a former Astronaut and MD who was damaged by Lipitor. He has written a book and has
a website devoted to statins now.

Did you watch the 8 minute video link I put up?
It also demonstrates another mechanism that statins result in poisoning and killing cells. The immune effects are in ADDITION to the metabolic damage in the cells themselves. Mevalonate pathways.
(the voice on this video sounds very much like Dr. Seneff...but I don't see her credits on this video).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF_3miYtuDM

Statins are really poisons. This is becoming more visible as the patents expire. We won't see them much within the next 5 yrs, I predict. They will go the way transfats have gone. The poisonous nature of transfats was known over 10 yrs before any agency acted on it. (transfats caused millions to be damaged over about 70yrs, and that scope is similar to the damage statins are causing now).

Already Big Pharma is planning new non-statin cholesterol control.
But because of its new nature ...negative studies are not available yet. So far they are injectables...that won't be received well either.

You know statins are contraindicated during pregnancy because they damage and/or kill the fetus. That is a hint of what they do to adults.

IMO these drugs are the worst thing ever to happen to medicine and patients. Worse than Vioxx, HRT estrogens, even thalidomide.
They are worse because Big Pharma is suggesting using them on millions more people, rather than the reverse!

That's his book I'm reading. I thought both of those qualifications might make him a rather science based source, so that's what I picked. After a few pages, my mouth fell open and decided to stay that way...

Not yet. I will though. I wasn't really interested in statins because I just refused to take them.*

I just didn't know they were that bad. :eek:

* actually, when I was in rehab, after my first blood check, I suddenly had a couple of more pills to take. Without consulting with me, the resident doc had proscribed Zocor (simvastatin) :rolleyes:. As much as I had other stuff on my mind (ahem**), I made quite a big thing about that, as I already knew that it could worsen my PN. The head psych agreed with me, and they promised to never ever give medication to their patients again without consulting with them first.

**When you are in your third day of detox, the last thing you want to worry about is bad medication being foisted upon you. I really wasn't happy with that, but decided to not let it steer me off course. It does show how vulnerable you can be in such a situation though.

Dr. Graveline was seriously upset with Lipitor. He was mentally damaged by it and could not find his own home!

So he stopped the drug, then restarted it, and bingo same thing with memory. (this was before the FDA added memory issues to their warnings).

So he came online with his Spacedoc website and wrote Lipitor, the Thief of Memory.
This must be a newer book you are reading? What is the printing date, can you check?

I have to say, within this past year the dirt has hit the fan, regarding statins. Memory loss, PN (even from a gov't website now), and diabetes risk. Now these new videos on cell death.

Maybe they will be kaput before my 5 yr prediction?

This 8 minute video even kaboshes the Red Yeast Rice... because they explain that statins are mycotoxins...very harmful. And Red Yeast Rice is a .....fungus (myco).

The Fate of Crestor's Patent:
 

This is interesting....

http://www.pmlive.com/pharma_news/as...allenge_469203

Made 6.25 billion last year for AstraZeneca.

We'll see a huge change in statin ads soon....this patent end in
mid 2016.

There is one other statin on patent; http://cholesterol.emedtv.com/livalo...ic-livalo.html
Livalo (pitavastatin)
It has several patents...so this is very confusing...but first patent ends May 2015.
Don't see ads for it or hear much about it either.

So the cholesterol wars will heat up soon I think!

July 2012. (this one)

And now there's this--
 

--from today's NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/18/he...awed.html?_r=0

Makes you wonder if anyone really knows what s/he is talking about.

This is totally depressing! No one is looking at the toxic potential of statins...at least clinicians. The research is ongoing and the data, alarming..and no one is listening or looking for it!

This suggests to me it is a propaganda issue driven by money...not a factual scientific issue. All of the doctors not involved with the money aspect, report differently.

CNN is now also reporting on the same flawed calculator story: http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/18/health...html?hpt=he_c2

My GP was pressuring me just last week to go on Zocor because my overall number is 215. All the other factors they're using indicate that I shouldn't worry. Even their stupid calculator gave me a 1% (yes, one percent) risk assessment. I have no intention of taking any of this stuff. I told her my biggest risk is not enough excercise because my pain isn't properly controlled. I'm sticking to that.

Something new I learned from the book: research seems to indicate that homocysteine plays a major role in heart disease. Cholesterol may still be a contributing factor, but then again so are arteries. ;)

Homocysteine is elevated when there is a lack of ... B12 and B6, folic acid... not that we never mentioned those on here.

The research done by Dr. Kelly is fantastic. He was one of the ones who never bought into the cholesterol theory, and he's also the one who probably first thought about inflammation (and possibly homocysteine) playing a major role. Combined with smoking, genes, diet, lifestyle, transfats, a bad omega3/omega6 balance this may explain quite a bit. What is clear though that cholesterol on its own seems to be totally statistically irrelevant when it comes to heart disease.

People like Kelly and for example John Yudkin deserve a statue for the research they have done, despite all the ridicule they had coming their way. And, in a way, so does Atkins.

Sobering thought: even my thoughts and feelings (and thus this sobering thought) would be impossible to have without cholesterol. Yes, our very core being is made mostly out of the stuff. That's almost hilarious!

I don't know who those people are or what they've researched (actually, I may, but they're not ringing any bells at the moment), but...

"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; and Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
— Arthur Schopenhauer

"Many things we accept as fact today were ridiculed and opposed in the not-too-distant past; this goes to show that just because an idea is unpopular now doesnt mean it wont be unilaterally accepted in the future."
— Melchor Lim

"First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win."
— Mahatma Ghandi

"Every great movement must experience three stages: ridicule, discussion, adoption."
— John Stuart Mill

"Ridicule doesn't mean anything - even from people you're supposed to wear knee pads around, like the scientific community.”
— Dwight Schultz

I'll stop there.

Doc

Welchol?
 

has anyone tried Welchol for LDL?

I searched but didnt have any hits.

My doc just put me on it. I told him I would try 6 months as I have to pay 50 a month for it. Unless it flairs my PN of course.

I have been taking it for about 2 weeks now with no noticeable affect on my PN.

Welchol is a absorbant product that does not get into the body's circulation. It removes cholesterol manually by sponging it up
in the GI tract. Make sure you take with lots of water, as it
swells and there can be a choking hazard with it. Over time it can also absorb vitamins so space it out if you take any vitamin or mineral products.

It should not affect PN either way. It just absorbs the cholesterol that is in the bile, which is pumped into the intestine with meals.

Welchol is not a statin.

The VAP test is important also.

Yes, I get the homocysteine tested for sure. Lots of things people can do.

statins
 

The first thing my new pcp did was stop the statins I had been taking for 8 months. He told me to take red yeast rice. The natural from which statins are derived.
My total cholesterol is 149 but the extensive blood test results show rather bad ldl.

I am also big believer in Coq10. The more potent water soluble one
.200 mg a day.
I also take a vitamin called phylo multi by metagenics it appears to have a lot of the nutrients suggested for PN relief. I would list the ingredients but probably best if one is interested to check the metagenics website.