Horrible Manic Day - Many Triggers
 

This entire thing is very graphic and many triggers so do not read if that's not your cup of tea today. Thanks.

First, let me say as an intro that I spent yesterday with Christopher and his daughter. We watched movies and such and had a very fun time talking, hugging. laughing, going shopping.... I left his place around 1 p.m. today. This is when all this happened. I had been gone from my family since 12:30 Saturday afternoon and none knew where I was until just a bit ago (10 p.m. Sunday). I wandered around downtown by car and then by foot in a daze, except for talking with someone I saw at Starbucks from judo. Not depressed. Just losing touch with reality. Then I went to a bookstore to read. Then I left there and went downtown- actually downtown was where Starbucks is. Got it backwards. Then went into Border's downtown and looked around.... Still detatched from the world. Reading about bipolar. Many things were clicking for me, yet I still felt detached from the world. I then drove to Mejier (like a super walmart) and wandered aimlessly looking for one item that I had no idea where it was. In a dream. In a daze. Finally I just got home around 10 p.m. but before that I went to the mall. Christopher's car was there at the movies. I did not say hi. I did no leave a note. We did not see each other. (If you remember, I bought a ticket just last Tuesday when he was there with his daughter and he got upset and later said in an email "what if it had been my ex or one of my other friends instead of my daughter?") I just drove home as the mall was closing by then which I hadn't realized. I was going to read. My phone must've rung 10's of times and I just did not answer. Then eventually I made my way to Christopher's for some "grounding" in reality and here is what happened. I wrote him this email, so hopefully you can fill in the gaps. Meijer, btw, has a balcony that goes all the way along most of the length at the front and so this is what I'm referring to.

I'm going to bed but two things before I do.

Sometimes I feel you feel pity for me; I hope this
isn't the case.

When you say "I know how you feel," it is somewhat
comforting (better than you're crazy) but you are not
me. I came for some grounding. Yes- I think too much.
Yes- I probably should be insanely jealous and all
freaked out about you and the movies, but I was not. I
am not.

I came to see you because I was in need of some
serious mental grounding. I was walking along the
balcony at Meijer tonight thinking how neat it would
be to fly down from there. Something said to me
"Don't. You'll make a big mess"- so I didn't. But for
the moment- I really wanted to.

This scares me. I cry because I am scared at my
version of reality and my trust in it. In many things
in my world right now. I barely know my own reality
at times and I do not know yours. I am having a
terrible time dealing with my brain and what is
supposedly bipolar (which is not just being too happy
or depressed) and when I start to lose touch with
reality, I get a) thrilled and b) scared. At the same
time. To me, it is like the world changes from moment
to moment on me and becomes unreality- like anything
could happen. I see things that aren't there and I
fear people will do crazy things just to me- just to
harm me. Strangers or people I know. Sometimes its a
matter of thinking too much, yes, but that is not it.
It is not me thinking too much about you or our emails
the last few days. This has nothing whatsoever to do
with those. This has to do with me feeling sick and
confused and out of touch with reality. I do not want
to hear that you love me or that you know I love you
IF ONLY because it has something to do with "the
future" and all of that. That is so not on my list -
its so secondary or tertiary or whatever... way down
my list- when my basic need is for reality. Grounding.
And unconditional love when I am feeling at my very
worst.

If you want to this to be anything to do with you, how
about this: You're still talking to me. That's way
more than most who haven't seen me close to this like
this. They get tired of me- I wear them out, I guess.

You seemed to want to talk tonight about your car
being at the movies and I don't know why, but I do not
have the mental energy or emotional energy to talk
about what our emails were about the other day. I
know- I brought it up- but you see, I started to try
to get my entire life in order in one day- house, job,
"family".... Ugh. anyway. That's a manic thing and
welp- nevermind for now.

I'm taking two of my pills and jumping into bed. We'll
talk soon, I'm sure.

HUGS

Jennie

call your pdoc ASAP
 

Hi there,
I hope that you were able to sleep and sleep well.
I think you need to call your pdoc tomorrow...letting em know that you are manic.
YOu could print out what your wrote and give that to your pdoc or therapist.
I forget what you said in regards to an anti psychotic medication that you may be taking....?
It sounds like it needs to be increased...I am not a doctor and encourage you to contact yours.
take care and be safe...you walking around a balcony wanting to fly is truly a classic manic thought.
bizi

I second what Bizi said....

And talk about this relationship with a counselor/therapist. If you don't have one, talk to your pdoc about getting one. Something about it makes me think it might have aggravated this getting out touch with reality.

- Theresa

Ditto - Call your p-doc today ASAP. Hang in there.

Lots of Hugs, Nikko

I am seeing my new psychiatrist on Wednesday for my initial appointment. Last night I took two trazaone and fell asleep. Now Christopher has emailed and phoned me to ask very nicely if I'd like to go out to lunch with him today- something we'd talked about weeks ago but never have. He's always so cheerful. Well, if you think HE is the souce of the mania- which I know my bipolar has been around since I was a teen but not diagnosed- it does upset me very much some of the stuff he's saying to me and done and we've talked about it. I am never one for true communication- I forget the rules and I forget lots... Get really confused and then end up with someone upset with me and I have zero idea why. Been like that since I was a teen. Then again, I can sail right through a conversation (as in last night with a judo buddy) and seem perfectly a-ok.

Bizi, I am on Depakote, Celexa, and Trazadone (at night for sleep). I have not missed my doses, except Celexa I did miss yesterday morning. In fact, last night I increased my dose from 500 to 750 as suggested on the Depakote, but I had taken 500 the night before. Are any of those anti psychotics? You know, back when I had all those "horror movie hallucinations", I looked it up online about these and found someone who'd written about it- a Q&A. So I wrote to him about my experience and he said I needed an anti-psychotic right away. I laughed and never wrote him back. My psych. dr. at the time just said I was really stressed and prescribed the celexa.

I hope you are safe, when you say what he is saying and doing to you, makes me worry.

Take care, Nikko

none of the meds that you are on are antipsychotics. There are several: seroquel, abilify, geodon(which I liked alot)

Ok
I am not a doctor again but I waould call yours asap!
It sounds as if YOU DO NEED an antipsychotic cause that is what is happening to you.....been there ...done that....
the anti depressant may be contributing to this mania and I think that needs to be cut back or discontinued entirely.
This is why I think you need to call your pdoc.
It is hard for us to be rational when manic...we need to have somebody else tell us.
Last time I was hospitalized...I was "fine" it was my best friend who told me I was manic....that is the word I needed to hear to make myself stop...other wise I would have just kept spiraling higher and higher. It was the prozac that I was on that did that to me....
ok...
just very very concerned....
bizi

What do you think he is doing to me? He invited me to lunch today and we sat over lunch and talked about my day yesterday. I told him how it makes me feel and what went on. He said it sounded normal to him and I said it doesn't to me and he said that maybe he is similar to me then because he has thought similar things in the past. We talked about how is two exes were like this and he "knows all about bipolar". I said I didn't think he did, but he says he's read all kinds of books and what could the book I had (The bipolar handbook) tell him that these hadn't. I felt hurt because I want to share how I am feeling which is very out-of-it at times and he held my hand. I asked why he aught to have to put up with this with me because although he's put up with it with his exes, they were his wives and I am not. I don't think he truely still grasps the idea that when I said I needed grounding by going to see him and that he's the only person in real life I tell these things to.... when I mentioned this to him he said "real life?" as if I have an alternate reality. Suppose I do, but I said "I meant people online". :cool: I told him I have days like last Friday when I try to fix my entire world in one day and think I can do it too! "Buy a house, get a job, hey Christopher can move in with me and intstant family ...." To me that is manic. But to him he said he thinks when you get fed up wiht your situation, you want to fix it all right now and that you'll try anything to get out of being "down". I still do not know if he truely understands, but I do think he cares. What is getting to me is kind of what I told him: Why should he act as if he's in this for the long haul with me when my husband barely could deal with it (though its not why we broke up; he asked), and frankly he is not. That's when I get embarassed around him because he is not my husband. He is my "friend". And yeah- that messes with my reality when I see him as much more than a friend, but he introduces me to others as "my friend, Jennie".

The Celexa did bring on a manic episode when they doubled it back at the beginning of September. That's when they started thinking maybe I'm bipolar, but I had had manic episodes before this and relatively recently too, so that is not the sole cause for them, IMO.

I totally hear you that we need somebody else to tell us. That's exactly what I meant when I told Christopher I went to him because I was in despirate need of "grounding".

He told me today that he has been there before with his exes, he thinks these things are normal in some sense- even the "horror movie hallucinations" which I then explained that they are not a matter of being angry and thinking "I'm so mad at you I just want to stab you", but rather having a movie play of horrible things and not being able to make them stop! He also said he did not want to read "the bipolar handbook" (as I said one post up) because he feels he's read many books on the subject and he is Christian Scientist and prefers to not think in terms of "unwell". I can see where he is coming from because I have been studying a lot of the Christian Scientist literature. HOWEVER, I told him that I am in no way able to deal with this through prayer right now. I'm just not learned enough or lucid enough right now. And when he basically refused the book, I was very hurt because it felt like he didn't want to learn about "where I am". He then took my hand and asked me to tell him and he'd be quiet. So I did. All in all, it wasn't a bad lunch and much talked about. I don't feel nearly like I did yesterday, but I still have not called my psych. dr. As I said, I do not have one really. I know I am seeing someone but I forget whom and our first meeting is not until Wednesday afternoon for 2 1/2 hours. Without this, they would tell me to call my primary dr. for a med change, or maybe tell me to contact psych. ER. I needed that last night I guess, but I was so feeling I was "with it", I didn't even think of it. In fact, I saw a man outside with no shirt on (its cold here) - outside Meijer- and he was acting weird and it was dark and I was sure he was gonna attack me if I went out there (I was going to leave) and so I stayed inside, thinking "He's really insane. Glad I know enough to keep my clothes on!" But still, I did go out there after a couple minutes and figured if he tried anything, I'd just beat him to a pulp. I often think about attacking people for no reason.

Gotta go pick up the kids from school now. Back in a few.

He sent me a text message on my phone a bit ago saying "I just wanted to give you a big hug cuz I love you. (((Jennie)))"

Here's the Way I See It
 

Dear Jennie,

(Please excuse any odd characters that appear in this letter. I have to write in Microsoft Word and then copy and paste onto the forum because my computer shuts down unexpectedly when I write directly in forum or email programs. The transposition causes the odd characters.)

Here is a link to a site that describes the various, “mood stabilizers” used to treat bipolarity. The overall site is the best single resource for bipolar information that I have found on the web. As far as I can see, “anti-psychotic” and “mood stabilizer” are phrases used synonymously to describe this genre of meds. “Depakote” would, therefore, be an anti-psychotic. http://www.psycheducation.org/depres...tabilizers.htm

“Celexa” is an SSRI, (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor). While often a godsend for Unipolar Depressives, these meds can have paradoxical effects on Bipolars and send them into mania or depression. If you are not yet stable, my bet is that the fault lies with the Celexa rather than the Depakote.

At the risk of offending Christian Scientists on the forum, it is difficult for me to see how someone of this persuasion could be helpful to people like ourselves. Christian Scientists believe that, since god is all-good, he wouldn’t create anything that is “bad”. Ergo, if we are mentally ill, it is the fault of our perception rather than of reality. In reality, we are not sick. Essentially, Christian Scientists are zealous Cognitive Behavior Therapists. Through prayer and reading the works of Mary Baker Eddy one trains one’s mind to see reality as it truly exists, rather than in the malformed state that our (sinful?) perception takes in.

If it works for you, great. However, my secular view is that the chemical soup in our brain is out-of-balance, and it requires the addition of other chemicals to regularize it.

After reading your posts, it is obvious that you are still very much in control of yourself. The fact that one thinks about flying off a balcony doesn’t indicate that one is about to do so. You are afraid of the confusing, depressing interpretations of reality that your mind is sending you, and justifiably so. But many of us have been there and are still here.

Make an enumerated list of your concerns and the perceptions that elicited them before you see your shrink on Wednesday. He will probably make a medication change of some kind. However, if he doesn’t know the specifics of your reality, he won’t know specifically what to do.

Your mental health is a work in progress, and that is progress itself. Hang in. Most of us have, eventually, found relief. There is no reason that you should be different.

I would like to include some relationship advice. However, in view of my track record, I will refrain.

Good luck.

He isn't saying not to take meds or judging me for doing so. Its ME who is trying to think of things metaphysically and having a hard time when I get too far from reality.

How are mood stabilizers anti-psychotics? Isn't psychosis being out of touch with reality? That isn't a mood issue.

Dear Jennie,

To be honest, I don't know how these meds work or what would distinguish an anti-psychotic from a mood stabilizer. However, I think that your response contains the answer to your question. If you are profoundly out-of-touch with reality, as in paranoid schizophrenia, the drug with which you are treated would be considered an anti-psychotic. Conversely, if you are less out-of-touch, as in bipolar disorder, you might be treated with the same drug, but it would be considered a "mood stabilizer". RISPERDAL (risperidone) is such a med.

It would seem that the description, "mood stabilizer", was coined to assuage those who are frightened of the word, "psychotic". However, when healthcare professionals want to refer to all the drugs in this family, from Thorazine to Abilify, they call them, "anti-psychotics".

Oh please. The last thing I need is to have to guess what someone means in reading about something that is about me not understand my unpredictable world/reality, sometimes! They should say it like it is. I thought mood stabilizers make it so you don't end up exessively up or excessively down. That seems logical to me. Psychosis is not a matter of JUST being "up".

Part of the Same Continuum
 

Dear Jennie,

My experience with people diagnosed as bipolar is that it is not unusual for them to manifest symptoms of an illness that is commonly considered "worse", particularly schizophrenia. These folks are treated with some of the same meds that are used for those diagnosed as schizophrenic. My layman's opinion is that all of the so-called "mood disorders", and schizophrenia, and many other psychoses, are instabilities of the same system, and, ergo, amenable to treatment by the same meds. The mood disorder meds are used principally to treat mania rather than depression. If the mania that an individual is exhibiting becomes so extraordinary that it can be considered megalomania or profoundly dilusional, it can as easily be described as schizophrenia. I don't believe that there is any reason for distinguishing bipolar disorder from psychosis other than degree.

Dear Jennie,
I would like to say that there is a difference between mania and mania with psychosis. and psychotic depression.
psychosis includes delusions which are false beliefs.
Hallucinations, paranoia and delusions can all fall under psychosis.
I will go do some research so that I am better able to post to you.
bizi

Well then, bizi... by this definition, I have been psychotic, as I have thought people were after me- or aliens, but that one was due to too much pain meds after my wisdom teeth were out back around 1992; oh yeah, and the one I like best is the same week where I was CONVINCED "the dark is coming to get me". The dark on the windows at night when the lights are on inside, that is. I called my mom completely freaked out saying "I know it can't.But it is anyway!"

Anyway, I am feeling better tonight. I had a fine evening. I talked with a friend. My ex came over to watch the kids as is usual. I went to Christopher's around 7:30 or 8:00 and he made gluten-free bread for me in the breadmaker. We hugged and smiled and chatted and watched you-tube for a bit. Then he got out the Whinnie the Pooh book that he has and I read a chapter to him. We have done that maybe three times in the last six months, and he knows I like it so he got the book out of his own accord. I sat reading and he fell asleep hugging me. Sometimes, he and I just laugh and laugh at the things Eeyore and Rabbit et. al. say! I also mentioned having gained 4 lbs in the last six weeks, cuz we were talking about him being three times my weight still- as he was when we were born (3 lbs something and 10 pounds something) - wait he said only twice now- and I said "not likely because I'm 132." he says "132?!" in disbelief and I said "Yeah, I've gained 4 lbs". He says "Are you pregnant?" I said "If I were, I'd be more than six weeks and don't you think I'd've not kept it a secret?" He said "I don't know..." but all in a non-upset way. Ack! Pregnant. He aught to bite his tongue. I have, however, missed two periods, but had weird spotting. Oh yeah- and I said "If only I could blame my craziness on being pregnant. 'Oh! No big deal! I'm not mentally ill- I'm pregnant!'" :p I said it was probably the new meds.

I am tired, however, from yesterday. And even though I slept last night and had crazy dreams, I need more sleep now. (And no doubt more crazy dreams.)

He sounds really sweet...
and I would get a pregnancy test kit.....missed 2 periods...yikes!
bizi
p.s and if you are pregnant...some of the meds are not pregnancy safe...
I know I worry too much....

I might test, Bizi; I thought of it last week or so, but although I get sore breasts every so often, and the period thing and the gaining weight, and smelling weird stuff, I have an IUD and so I highly doubt I could be. The new meds say you can gain weight on them AND I haven't been to judo much, both factors in weight gain. I suppose if I were, though, I'd have to look at my options as both Depakote and Trazadone are not likely good for pregnancy.

I haven't tested. I think its the meds re: weight gain and bipolar re: "wackiness".

Question now is if I should call the psych. dr. at this late date re: the weekend or should I just let it go until tomorrow when I have my (initial) appointment?

Edit: You all convinced me to test- so I bought a store-brand one. WIll use it in the a.m.

I did test. It was negative. For a moment, I thought I saw a faint 2nd line, but must've imagined it through fear. I dreamed two nights ago that I took three tests and they all said "positive" in words. Weird.

Check with your PCP and P-doc and see if the meds are causing you to miss periods and/or spotting. If they say no, then call your Gynocologist.

Nikko