The Dreaded Depression
 

I haven't been posting a lot lately, because since Christmas I have been really struggling with depression. I have had a problem with this all my life, but it has been much worse since getting neuropathy. Other than the pain, I don't have any serious problems, in fact many blessings. I'm not depressed ABOUT anything, it just settles down on me and I just can't function. I haven't been off the couch for several days. My plan is to force myself to get up and go to church tomorrow. Sometimes forcing myself to get out helps, and sometimes not. I am under a psychiatrists care. I just don't seem to get any benefit from antidepressants. I do take trazadone at night to help me sleep well. AT 59, I don't think I would benefit from "counseling" -- I have had counseling several times in the past. I just don't know where to turn. I guess I will just keep on "keeping on" and hope things take a turn fo rthe better. I am so frustrated! But I wanted to let you know that reading this forum and the people here really help me so much. I do not feel so isolated or cut off from people. Thanks to everyone on the forum for this.

Dakota,
 

Have you had your serotonin levels checked? Also, what about Vit. D levels. All of the above contribute to depression.

I'm thinking about you.:hug:

Billye

Susan:

Hi. I am a big fan of counseling. People need to get stuff off of their chests. They sometimes need better coping mechanisms. Don't discount counseling, you never know. And a counselor can be objective. Friend's and even neuro-board friends, well all we do is give you support and cyber hugs, but sometimes more is definitely needed..

I have a friend who is close to my age and she had a falling out with her mother. Her mom is 78. Bad from the get-go. No parenting skills at all. My friend went to a counselor recently all upset because of how her mother has been treating her. Guess what the counselor said? "your friends can't tell you this but I can, "your mom is a piece of cr*p mom" (Only she didn't use the word cr*p). And she's been talking her heart out and getting all the rage out and frustration and the counselor has helped her deal with her feelings.

So think about it. Might help, might not. You never know.

Right now, you need some puppy hugs!!! Take care!!!

http://dl8.glitter-graphics.net/pub/...k02iy63i3p.gif

Thanks for the thoughts, hugs and suggesstions. Billye, I will ask my doctor about the seratonin and vitamin D levels. And Mel, I will consider counseling. I think it is hard to find a good counselor. You guys are the best.

Susan, I know exactly how you feel.
 

I need to literally talk myself into going out to the grocery store (2 blocks away). I'll use every excuse I can to avoid it. But once I'm out, I always marvel at how I could stay indoors rather than go out in the world and see life around me.

I subscribe to a Johns Hopkins newletter and was reminded of an article they emailed a few days ago. Maybe it can help you. Here it is:

Light Therapy and Wellbutrin XL for SAD
January 30, 2008
By Johns Hopkins Health Alerts, www.johnshopkinshealthalerts.com

Now patients with seasonal affective disorder have two effective therapies to relieve depression in the winter months – light therapy and the antidepressant, Wellbutrin XL.

At this time of year, changes in the amount of daily sunlight cause changes in the body’s internal biological clock, known as circadian rhythm. This rhythm is a 24-hour cycle that affects our eating and sleeping patterns, brain wave activity, hormone production, and other biological activities. In some people, less daily sunlight and changes in circadian rhythm can bring about depression. One theory is that the relative lack of sunlight during these times may alter brain levels of certain mood-related chemicals.

If you have SAD, what can you do?

* Light Therapy

Some people with seasonal affective disorder can be successfully treated with exposure to bright light. In one study, 57% of 191 people with SAD responded to light therapy. In another study, light therapy was comparable in effectiveness to antidepressant therapy but worked faster and caused fewer side effects.

Light therapy involves sitting in front of a bank of full-spectrum fluorescent lights for 30–60 minutes each day. Improvement can often be seen within a few days, with symptoms disappearing after two to three weeks. Continued light therapy is needed to prevent a relapse.

* Wellbutrin XL

In 2006 the FDA approved bupropion HCL extended-release tablets (Wellbutrin XL) for the prevention of major depressive episodes in people with a history of SAD. Wellbutrin XL is the first drug officially approved for SAD.

The efficacy of Wellbutrin XL for the prevention of SAD episodes was demonstrated in three double-blind, placebo-controlled trials -- the gold standard of medical research -- in adults with a history of recurrent major depressive disorder in autumn and winter. Treatment was started before the onset of symptoms in the autumn (September to November) and was discontinued following a two-week taper starting the first week of spring (fourth week of March).

In these trials, the percentage of patients who were depression free at the end of treatment was significantly higher for those on Wellbutrin XL than for those on placebo. Combining data from all three studies, the overall rate of people depression free at the end of treatment was 84% for those on Wellbutrin XL, compared with 72% for those on placebo.

These findings have not surprised psychiatrists and primary care physicians, who have long been using antidepressant drugs off label for treating SAD. But the approval of Wellbutrin XL by the FDA adds credibility to the treatment approach.

Clearly I don't know if you have SAD and the article may not resonate with you. Also, Atlanta may have much more sunlight than NYC so SAD may not be an issue.

I'm going to see a psychiatrist in a few weeks and will ask about Wellbutrin. I don't think it can make me more depressed than I am now...lots of weeping episodes over not very serious stuff. Mostly caused by my crappy physical state and wishing I could step outside without a walker. I send you lots of hugs & good wishes.

This is a subject I know well. Before the pn I suffered from severe depression. I had been to many therapists,psychiatrist,meds etc. Even at times when my ed was better I suffered from depression at points I would not leave my home. During this time I had many blessing like you say but there was an inner sadness. Many times I felt I could not face my days. I knew in my life the way I was coping was not working and I had to change. The more you hide from this and stay in the harder the cycle is to break. I really believe if able to through the pain part that you should push through the mental don't want to. Even sometimes when you don't think it helps in the long run it may. As for therapy you are never to old and just because it didn't work in the past doesn't mean it can't now. I wonder if some is fear of having to face the issues and make a change. It may not be but sometimes it is. I spent many years in and out of treatment and the combo that worked for me was therapy but being proactive and pushing myself when I didn't want to and really digging deep on issue like my sadness,anxiety,lonliness etc.You deserve more and just because there is not a concrete like abuse doesn't mean there are not other things contibuting. Many hugs

Hi Dakota, Hang in there... I've been there too
 

Hi Dakota,
I've been there too and it is tough. I came to this board after losing my mom to suicide and it was a really hard time for me. I went through a serious depression myself after losing her.

After losing someone so close to you do a suicide, you feel the deep depression yourself. I was actually hospitalized myself. I knew I didn't want to do that, but believe me, it was there, in the front of my mind. I wanted to go there. I wanted to make the pain go away. I couldn't find a way to stop the hurting, physically and emotionally.

I am now strong, healthy, and on my way up. I have gone to the survivors of suicide board. I reached out for help not so much for myself, but more for those who love me. For my children and grandchildren so they wouldn't have to deal with what I was going through.

I am stronger now. I still have days. We all do. When I was diagnosed with PN I went back into that deep hole, and it is hard to climb out of. However, there are so many people who love us that NEED us to climb out of that hole! When we've climbed out of it, then we do it for ourselves. But while we are in there, we do it for them. I couldn't do anything for myself while I was there. It didn't matter, I didn't matter. But my children, my grandchildren, they mattered.

Find something that matters to you and focus on that. Stay focused on that and hold on to it. Don't let go of it!
We are here for you and we look forward to hearing from you EVERY DAY! Get up , go outside and do the things that you HATE to do, cuz those are the things that force you outside your hole. Get outside for a walk, take a shower, talk to your neighbor.

Oh, I have one more little thing to add.

I think I've been depressed most of my life. I used food TO MAKE THE PAIN GO AWAY. Food was my thing. I can't even imagine doing this NOW, because I've re-trained my brain not to think this way. Took some time, but coming on these boards, learning about diabetes, talking to people, etc. Well, I got it through my head that my eating was destroying me.

I remember happily pigging out in front of the tv with chips, dips, doodles, ding dongs. dong dings!!!! lol. You get the message.

When you self-medicate WITH ANYTHING, you no longer feel ANYTHING. And while this may be a temporary fix, in the long run, it ruins out health.

And even my own mother getting on my case all my life (since I was 12 or so), well that didn't do a darn thing for me besides make me eat more. She used to hide food in the closet. My mother was 5 feet tall and normal weight. My grandmother was 4 feet 11 and normal weight. EVERYBODY IN MY FAMILY WAS NORMAL WEIGHT. Except for me.

Do you have any idea what it is like to be the LARGEST member of your family? It ain't pretty, believe me.

And when I was 40 something, (and I thought I looked good at the time), we all went to Florida to visit my parents. We took our 8 year old son at the time. I was 300 lbs and a size 24 and a half. Want to know what my mother told my husband?? "how can you sleep with Melody, she's a fat pig".

Alan came running over to me and said "we're leaving now, I can't be around this woman". He wouldn't tell me what she said but I dragged it out of him later. I almost died. EVEN THAT DIDN'T MAKE ME GET HELP. No, I still ate in front of the tv every night.

I believe that depression makes us do all sorts of irresponsible stuff to our bodies and we pay for it in the long run.

So you start talking to people.. You get off the couch. (And if you have ding dongs and yodels in the house, throw them out).

If you are having a bad pain day, and you have a med for that, take it, and go for a walk, if possible. Get out in the sunshine. I try and do this every day.

I had to PUSH myself to really LOOK at myself. I never SAW myself truthfully. It's amazing how one can be obese and never fully SEE themselves.

We all have our BAD MOMENTS going on.

What really devastated me and Alan is our son's walking away from us and never looking back. Let me tell you something, If you think I didn't want to take a bag of chips and stuff my face in front of the tv over that one, believe me, I did. The night he left, I ate more cupcakes and ding dongs than you might think possible. I fell asleep all drugged out from all that sugar.

In my case, it took talking to people, getting it off my chest, going on gamanon forums, whatever it took, I did it. I spoke to my doctor, I remember crying in his office about my son. The poor guy didn't know what to do with me. He kept saying 'I'll give you an anti-depressant".

He did. I took Zoloft. Wow, that was a wonder. I didn't care what the hell went on in my life. I ate because I wanted to eat. I gained weight.

I told him, and we weaned me off of the Zoloft. I didn't want to take any more pills.

So I just reached out and learned about what was happening in my body.

I trained my brain to understand what food does to us and what is good and what is bad. You would have thought I might have done this 30 years ago, but I guess I wasn't ready.

Pain makes people feel awfully depressed. I know this. When my scoliosis acts up, it's like a lightening bolt between my shoulder blades.

But I sit it out and I go and walk. I lift 5 lbs dumbells so I can make my bones strong.

My mind is completely switched off to self-medicating with food now.

My mind is most definitely switched on to finding that perfect summer skirt to go with my pretty white blouse (which I neve was able to wear because I was 300 lbs).

It's amazing what a pretty skirt and blouse will do to one's ego.

So when you feel up to it, get off the couch and put your face to the sun and remember, we are your friends and we care!!!

Oh, and if this graphic doesn't put a smile on your face, NOTHING WILL!!!

It sure put a smile on mine. (and nothing is showing so it's legal).lol

http://dl.glitter-graphics.net/pub/9...e8uakoee9e.gif

Sorry, Mel
but there's a 90+% probability,
that he's gay.
Same goes true for the opposite sex,
who does the same type of thing.
Fantasies are nice, but they are just that- fantasies.

Oh my god, you ruined my whole fantasy experience.:eek:

This guy is a HUNK!!! Never even thought he might be gay. God, I'm getting more clueless as I get older.:confused:

Oh well, I still had my moment. ;) lol lol lol

Ditto on the D....
 

I have found that since I increased my D to 2000IU daily, I don't need my light visor as much. ( I always feel better in the summer).

Last year at this time I bought that visor, I could barely function at all.
This year...I started it in Oct, and that seemed to nip it in the bud. But since I started the 2000IU D3 (I was taking 1000IU) I have only needed the visor once or twice a week now, instead of every day. ( I am not getting outside at all lately because of the ice and falling potential we have here).

Another factor is that I am now doing the R-lipoic acid 100mg/in the morning.
This is really giving me energy big time... better than a caffeine jolt!

Makes one wonder how much "depression" is other metabolic failures? Part of aging, part insulin resistance, etc?

Mrs. D.

Guess what? Cornell told me to go to 22 of the Lantus. So yesterday was my first time going down 4 points to the 22. I had no idea what my reading would be this morning. I mean, what is 4 points of insulin?? I really don't know.

So I took my reading, and it was 124.

Do you think there is a chance (I'll take any chance believe me), but could it be possible that a 60 year old woman who has been on diabetes medication since she's 40, and insulin since I'm 57. Well, could I someday go off all diabetic meds?? Is this at all possible in someone my age?? Can the good eating lifestyle really let a person with Type 2, stop diabetic meds altogether?

Wouldn't that be a kicker??

Thanks much.

yes
 

it is possible... but don't go nuts trying to do it. I think quality of life and fun
are also important.

Since you do not require a bolus of insulin with food, you may be able to go off.
It might be that the insulin is only contributing to the extra low A1c.

Other things that can lower blood sugar are
Cinnamon after meals
R-lipoic acid
Chromium supplements.

The chromium is very good at lowering blood sugar in the mild zones.
There is a study on PubMed..I put it up on medications..for the question of blood sugar that was elevated due to steroids. That study showed good blood sugar lowering.

and Cinnamon..

Susan
 

I have a problem with SAD,as my 2 sons, and I use the light,but like
Mrs.d the vit. d has helped so don't use it for as long as as did..Music
also helps me,but boy I miss dancing.. Hey Mel think of it this way
even if he's gay,maybe he likes to cook,clean,and he's purty to look
at. We have had some crazy weather almost everywhere ,this year,
usually not so cold,but is in Mo. this year.I can fly over the snow
in my Electric wheelchair,but it's not so easy trying to walk over
it on a walker.

Mel that was a mean thing for your Mom to say,sounds like she had
the problem,because as they say ,you can always loose weigh. She
was trying to make a problem she had your's and we are not talking
about weigh.. I have a problem going out ,sometimes it's hard to
do so many things that were so easy before,like getting dressed,
taking a shower without falling,getting any kind of excercise..Right
now with the PICC not being able to take showers..A Wellbutrin
helps,Billye the tests are a good idea.Psychiatrists..psychologists,
counslers,neighbors,kittys like Karens Baxter and Yorkiemom's yorkie.
whatever hobbies you can still do or teach,grandbabies,even if you
can see them on conputers,because there far away..And good
sweet cyberspace friends who haveee such good ideas when your
depressed,and we all are once in awhile..I'll be complaining how
hot it is soon. Your all just the best,feel better Susan,I can't
remember where I got my last pair of down slippers and I need some very
soft leg warmers,helppp. Hugs All Sue I think.

Mrs. D.

Don't worry, I don't go nuts. I like to have as less stress as possible. and I love to laugh. I actually enjoy eating my fish, and greens and anything that's new. I even know about Quinoa. Most people never even heard of this. You have to wash this very carefully because it has a natural pesticide on it so you wash it before you cook it. Has a nutty sort of flavor. Very healthy protein, so I have been told.

I know about Chromium. I have to pick some up.

bye for now.

Mrs D?
 

These 'days and nites' and the weather? I'm almost ready for one of those visors...
Not quite a depression, just a 'dampening' of anything good in life rite now. And I've some little things to feel GOOD about. More later, maybe...
I always, ALWAYS compare my state right now to some prior times...then I've a basis of comparison and hit myself on the head and can say "IT'S BEEN WORSE!' So I'm crabby, I'm not sleeping well...well? I've been far worse...I just don't LIKE to be THIS way!
It all makes me THINK, re-THINK, and again Re-re-THINK about where I am in my pain and where I am in this world! Hey! I've got a few things going for me?
I am 'diagnosed' of a sorts. Far Better than many, many others.
I am being treated. Far better than others.
I am still mobile, luckier than others.
I am still left with a functioning brain [tho some may quibble here] that helps me decide how to continue with what life has given me.
I am GRATEFUL for what all I do have! I no longer mourn what I've lost, but have learned to appreciate little things...I do resent that I've lost lots, but at the same time, I'm learning to learn what I still HAVE.
Life is fragile, and a gift. We have to use it to the best to really give and in the giving get back the better part of all of us.
'Patience is the art of hoping'... - j

Wow, guys. I think I can formulate a plan with the encouragement and advice you have given me. I had forgotten about the light therapy for SAD. I suspect I have it since this time of year is always hard for me. I will look into trying it. And the Wellbutrin XL... I don't think I have ever tried it -- just the regular Welbutrin. I'll ask my doctor (I am going to make an appt. tomorrow. And just hearing that you all have been through it and come out of it some helps a lot. I know that, but I forget it when I feel so bad and I feel like it will never get better. I did get up and go to church today and did laundry when I got home and that is a better day for me. And Melody, I am doing okay with the eating, although I have certainly self-medicated with ice cream in the past! Thanks a million guys. Tomorrow I will make that doctor's appt. and make sure I get off the couch. I'll do it for my husband and kids and you guys....

Hey! Two ships passing in the nite?
 

Go and DO don't hesitate to TRY! What have you got to lose?
Yeah they can prescribe anti-depressants...just insist that they-THEY look for other options... Hey, they are supposed to KNOW about this stuffs...
Ice Cream is a DEFINITE medication at times! Trust me! Doesn't do anything for the waistline, but...sure sets off some boggle of endorphin responses! AND far more FUN than Chicken Soup? - j

Mrs. D, is vitamin D one of those vitamins that you have to be careful not to get too much of, like A? Or can I just atart taking the 200IU? And do you know a website where you can order the light visor? I can sure try these things and see what happens. I can only fell better, right?

Shiney Sue, I get my down booties from REI website or Eddie Bauer. I think I have a website for the leg warmers. I'll look it up and post again.

I like the picture of the guy, Mel. As long as I am imagining, I can imagine him being heterosexual..lol.

Here you go for legwarmers, Sue:

http://www.sock-dreams.com/_shop/pag...egoryID_71.php

What the light does...
 

is increase serotonin. You can also increase serotonin with tryptophan supplements and B6. It is increasing serotonin that improves PAIN.

Wellbutrin affects dopamine. (not great for pain)

I hit rock bottom last year. Even after changing my shifts to eliminate nights, I was not great. I didn't decide to do the visor until Feb...making decisions is not so easy when depressed, you know.

This is the one I bought:
http://www.feelbrightlight.com/Feel_...ight.48.0.html
It now lives at my son's house....because he needed it too. Only he uses his at 4pm and I use mine in the morning. He has has mild anxiety all his ADD life, and likes the visor also for the winter. ( I gave him mine for Xmas). I've never increased the power and only use it for 1/2 hr. Overuse of light can throw you into hypomania if you are so inclined, so I remain very conservative. Can't spook my husband you know at this late date (40yrs marriage)...! :yikes:

So I now have a new one! LOL

If it is going to work, you should see effects within a week. The thing has a 30 day money back guarantee. I'd suggest B6 with it, and tryptophan perhaps, since these are precursors to serotonin synthesis. You take the tryptophan at night with a little sweet thing (about 100cal) away from protein, and it will zip right thru the blood brain barrier and start working for you.
When I was low, my neck was killing me, and my back, and boink...light fixed it. My arthritis pain is soooo much better with no pain pills. I do an Aleve liquigel when the weather attacks me, but that is like once a week now.

You know that antidepressants cause downregulation of other neurotransmitters in the brain...it is the brain's way of compensating. So using Wellbutrin increases dopamine and DECREASES SEROTONIN.
SSRIs increase serotonin in the synapse (do not increase production) but downregulate dopamine. So I don't think the Wellbutrin is serving people with pain issues well. JMO

I looked on Iherb and found L-tryptophan 500 mg. Do you think that one capsule is a dose that might give results in a trial, or would it take more? I remember some discussion on this forum that too much B6 can be harmful, also. I am seeing capsules of 100 mg., and also 250 mg. ?????

Thanks very much for the light visor info. I think I will invest in one. I am thinking that it would probably be wise to try this and the supplements before trying a drug like Welbutrin, as you suggested.

I am also thinking of buying a cognitive behavioral therapy workbook, as I have heard that some folks get help from this.

i have had the opposite side effect from wellbutrin. It has helped my pain. When i forget to take it for a day, i am reminded by an increase in pain. It is the only anti depressant that has helped my pain. Effexor, paxil, buspar, remeron...nada.......I am very atypical for many medications though...either they dont work on me or they effect me in negative ways such as not being able to stay awake, feeling sick etc.

I use the NOW brand
 

tryptophan. 500mg at night is PLENTY for me. In fact I can't use it every day.
I get too tired.

About the D3...I forgot to answer that.

New studies come out on that everyday. The new upper safe limit for healthy people is now at 10,000 IU daily.

4000IU is what is typically done to raise lowered levels daily.

I feel pretty safe at 2000IU. Next blood work, in about 2mos, I will ask for a level. I don't feel comfortable suggesting more than 2000IU D3 daily unless you have a level drawn. And I don't take any in the summer, when I tan up and am outdoors alot. I am using the gelcaps from NOW that are 1000IU each. I used to use a dry tablet, but I think the gelcaps have better bioavailability.

The data is changing on D3 as I type this... all new, and continuing so.

A million thanks. I have my shopping list now.

Wooops. How much B6 is safe?

Thanks Susan I use to hate them but dance instruters can get mean,and
they wore nice in Highschool when we couldn't wear pants only (kneel
down} the hem better touch the floor days... Now Dr. John tells me
my legs and feet feel cold. I wouldn't know how he would know,must
be taking a foot pulse..heh heh And I think it's fine if you want to think
that sweetie is hetrosexual,mine is going to be a housekeeper..

Mel I use to have a black all furry looking hat,like the movie star in
Dr. Zavirgo {the }movie wore. Well with my blond hair I though I the regularwas
so beautiful..I use to think that until I took it off and the static used
to make me look like a cat that stuck her finger in the light switch..
Your right good out laughter,it's the best,you you looked cute.

Hey Joe Wellbutrin is only A_D helps with me as well. my insurance is
always fighting over if there going to pay for generic or the regular,
there is a difference..It does make you loose weight,so they tell you
if you had or have a eating disorder not to take it. I would take tests,
use the light while laughing first..I am beginning to wonder if a lot of
these meds are causing harm,well of course they are,but don't know
if I would want to be the one who had to say,it's working you can't
have it anymore,we all have are struggles..My next thing after teeth,cheek
bone,nose Picc out ect. Is test for Corporal Tunnel on both hands .
Oh gezzz..

Mel I have heard of people going off of insulin with type 2 diabetes,
but never type1 nor would I want to..Did you say you were on shots,
are they prepackaged,all made up..My hands are so bad don't think
I could mix and give,neither does Dr. He was thinking pump,1 I never had
any trouble giving other 's shots but don't like to give myself one,i'm
not only nurse had this problem.. Now i'm lucky to use spoon...

Bob brough me some Valentine balloons and a plant and flowers..They
are beautiful,he got little boxes of Chocolate's we have a Candy business
downtown that's been in business forever,people come from all over
to watch it being made...You could go into diabetic Coma,you order
those Chocolate covered strawberries and you pick them up on 14th.
what lone lines,they make all kinds..And he's taking one to the Wine
resturant..I guess Dr. John will feed me baby food..he's sweet..
Hugs all Sue

Hi Sue:

Lantus does make a kind of premixed cartridge thingee and I even went to a seminar on it. They took out some kind of pen looking gadget and, well, believe me, after I learned how to use it (or should I say TRIED to learn), well, I gave up and said to myself "a regular shot is much easier".

You had to turn the dial, and pump the thing, well, I just said "forget it".

So I just give my self an injection. Oh, they gave me big numbered syringes. I mean who can see the itty bitty numbers on the syringes anyway. I used to have to use magnifying glasses.

But with these new syringes, the numbers are big and bold. Makes loading up the syringe much easier.

You take care, :hug:

Ha ha, Sue, I remember the kneeling and the hem better touch the floor days! Times change. Wouldn't it be fun to know what high school will be like in 50 years?

I wouldn't go over 50mg/day.

If you order from iherb...get the NOW P-5-P

http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails....1&pid=740&at=1
This is SO much better than regular pyridoxine.

Well! It would seem you're in very good company here. I, too, have some of the same issues. I was on Effexor XR for three years. Compared to how I felt when I first started medication (early spring of 2002, started Celexa - 14 months on that) I'm not having the same issues and symptoms. I *have* learned when I need to destress and decompress. My anxiety and depression was brought on by severe prolonged stress that caused a brain chemical imbalance. I was told that the amount of time I would be on the meds was equal to the amount of time it took me to get to the point of needing medication. And so far that's been right.

I've always had issues with SAD. Before I crashed and burned in 2001/2002 I was able to control that with St. John's Wort. After the crash and burn I tried St. John's Wort again and it had no affect on my anxiety and depression. When I had to force myself to go outside and dig in the dirt (gardening and plants is a passion and a therapy for me and has been for many many years) that's when I knew I was in trouble. :(

With the PN I'm having issues now of how this is affecting and will affect everything I do. I've gotten to the point on this road of knowing there are things that I'll never do. Because of the PN. I've looked into the future wondering just how bad this is going to get. And without a concrete diagnosis there's really no way of knowing for sure.

Now, I try not to look too far ahead. Sufficient unto this day.... My goal is to make it through today. I'll worry about tomorrow when it gets here.

SSRIs are options that work for a lot of folks.

Welbutrin is the only one I can take and it does help me with pain....interesting as the many of SSRIs are contraindicated in CMT or HSNs....check out the list of 'bad' meds for Charcot Marie Tooth Disease, which is a weird name for Hereditary Neuropathies of many types....the definition has been broadened, and there is wrangling over what to call what and who 'owns' what.

To think one can have a chronic disease and not have some depression is absurd....I don't even call it depression in those cases....

I call it 'adaptational affect'. Same as PTSD....of course, you are not going to come out of a traumatic experience 'normal', you get an 'adaptaional affect' or way of dealing with what happened to you.....life events change things.

It is fine, it is NORMAL. If you have chronic disease and are Pollyanna all the time I think you are more likely psychotic. When you look in your linen closet and see Miralax, enemas and a box of gloves, it does not put a smile on your face....unless you are really, really wierd.

Chronic disease, especially when it starts to shut down what you never thought about what your body did by itself when you were healthy, is not uplifting.

There are things one can do to alter the way you frame things.....You can use remedies, and of course, as you all do, make merry over small accomplishments, and appreciate, that effort and courage went into those accomplishments.

Treatments can be natural, synthetic, it can be light...light helps me, but I live so dang far north, and my genetics indicate I should really sleep all winter...wake up now and then and chew on reindeer marrow, 'down' a caribou eyeball, and go back to sleep....and then wake up ready to wear a swimsuit around the first of May and party 24/7 until Halloween, upon when I should simply fall asleep again. I do not understand why the modern world does not work like this.

Every winter I get into a funk, and it takes until mid June to get myself going...I have avoided this funk only a few years by exercising...too much....worked on the depression-killed the joints and muscles....then we all know about my adventure with the kite and skis...(an attempt to not get winter depression) even before I knew I had neuropathy.

This year I wanted snowshoes for Christmas, but my family nixed it due to global warming....'You won't get to use them" Right....I think we have had at least 3 feet of snow....I can still see my mailbox, but it is on a slant now.

I swear that plow guy just loves knocking off boxes. I bet he has stickers of mailboxes on his truck....one for every box he did in...like some military pilot.

I gave up on skis...that foot flopping would probably work OK on skis, but the balance thing....not to mention getting up when those skis are crossed and the tips in your armpits and you are on your back like a turtle....it isn't pretty....Lord you can't even reach your cell phone...especially when your arm is broken (been there-done that). For those few moments I was not depressed...I was invigorated...that lasted a few hours until after I left the ER, in a cast.

Depression---it is not a dirty word....'Depression' indicates to me, that if your world is all fine and dandy, and you are still sad.....you are depressed.

If your world is not fine and dandy, for whatever the reason---being sad, anxious, irritable, sleepless, overeating, undereating, unsocial etc, is kind of what happens......it is not a state of being to be ashamed of or to hide...

That said, you have to fight it...or it gets worse. You may not want to use some of my more controversial methods....I am getting old enough that those methods could land me in a nursing home, and I don't think I would ever get over that 'depression'.

If you can't change your circumstances (most of us can't) we can only reframe what is happening in a different light....and take what steps we can to assist ourselves.

Movement, music, vitamins, church, social activities, lights and meds all work to some extent.....sometimes even just 'committing' to doing something about it works.

That said, I still can't get to the swimming pool....maybe when it gets above 15 degrees, I can contemplate getting that wet, and going outside to a cold car....but I know it would help my 'depression'.:o

Oh, and there is that matter of not looking like one of those dream 'avatars' in my swimming suit....:D I am amazed at where certain anatomy has migrated to. Rather than getting depressed I can see if I can get it to migrate back. Geese go back and forth every year...

I will just have to use my imagination, and get over the reality of what is.....I am what I think I am, right???:cool::cool::cool: I think I have a stability ball in my closet somewhere....maybe what migrates down can migrate up again??? Hope springs eternal.

All of us have the right to be 'depressed' what ever that is....sad, mad, grumpy, irritable, hungry, not hungry, sleepy, sleepless etc. If a doc asks me if I am depressed, now I answer him/her, 'if you were me would you be and if so, what would YOU do about it?'

Life is not a bowl of cherries---at least not without the pits.

I don't even think 'Life is like a box of chocolates'....at least what you get is sweet each time, even if you break a tooth on a nut, it was sweet and yummy.

Life has been more like eating a banana with salsa, or oatmeal with corn nuts mixed in....none of it has been easy ever, and if it was, I think I would not know how to cope with it.

Life is an unhill climb, with scary downhill slips, bumps and bruises, hanging on for dear life, being out of breath, scared to death of falling, and not looking down or back.....

and if you are not discouraged, and scared at times, you are just not in touch with reality.....

The point, and you all do it, and know it, is to keep climbing....each plateau along the way, gives you a new view of the big picture...and a sense of where you have been....how far you have all really come!!:hug:

Billye---Congrats on the driving!!! I am in awe of that----next, the Indy 500!

Don't you love it when Cycleops goes on a rant?
 

As they used to say about Mad Stan (and if anybody knows that reference, I owe them a gluten-free cookie) once she gets on a rant, she's unstoppable.

Seriously, there is much to be said for the idea that if one is NOT at least a bit depressed when hit with chronic, painful, "idiopathic" conditions as so many of us have been, then one is far more unbalanced than one who does experience depression. The trick becomes where does one go from there--does one respond adaptively.

The sad truth is that most of the doctors we go to have litttle training in psychology/psychiatry, and are so often divorced from their feelings and intutitions by the day-to-day grind of modern medical practice, they assume that such feelings of depression are pathologic. The scandal of women entering into physicians offices and ASSUMED to be suffering from degree of clinical depression if a "smoking gun" for their symptoms is not immediately found is far too enraging for me to even BEGIN to discuss.

Life may not be a box of chocolates all the time, but I feel comfortable in asserting, especially when hit with these "no-see-um, no-know-what-they-um" conditions, that life becomes much like a septic tank--what you get out of it depends on what you put into it. And that decision to be adaptive, to be proactive, is as good an indication of mental health as there is.

So you don't think I should tie a piece of raw meat to a pole duct taped to my semi clothed body and run across the frozen tundra pursued by wolves (like on that commercial) to perhaps jolt myself out of my winter depression?

I bet it would work for me, :D

Am I ranting? I thought perhaps it was along the lines of raving...raving maniac.....I have cabin fever....:eek:

I do not know why they call it cabin 'fever' when you are freezing. If I got a fever perhaps I could save on my heat bill and irritate the Saudi king. Not to mention if Hugo gets in any worse of a mood, I am in real trouble....I can't even manage a hot flash right now....where are those things when you need them???

My brain is telling me to 'adaptively' curl up in a ball under 3 quilts, and six pillows and a big yellow dog balanced on top, and eat expensive Swiss chocolate bars with almonds, and stay there until it gets over 32 degrees farenheit, which at this rate could take at least 8 weeks.

I suppose I could construe that as depression. I encourage any shrink to cure this with meds...maybe ClubMed.

I love the septic tank analogy....for some reason I can really relate to that.

Thank you Mrs. D. You are the GREATEST! I got my vitamin D today and will order the other stuff tonight. I already feel somewhat better, just to be taking some positive measures. Thanks to everyone!

Susan did you see the tights,the arm warmer's,the well of course you did it's
youe book ,and I love it.

J er it's always good to see you,why because it is.

If I was a little girl again,wouldn't C. make a great Mommie..I mean evevytime
my teacher sent a note home,for the first time,but there wouldn't
be more then the first time..You couldn't hold her hand it would be flying
around,you would be laughing,way down in your stomach,when the spit
flys into the teacher face,I polite child would hold a big box of kleenex,
for wet face teacher..I mean by the time mommie C got done ranting
because she had to get our snowshoes on both of us,once more pick up
the mailbox,and go cross country,in our leg warmers,from Aunt Susan
and get our visors on after all that SAD is not funny,thank you Aunt
Mrs.d. Not to mention that Aunt Mel found a way to invent our interesting
snow shoes..We would wear cleaner bags over our coats to keep them
dry,monnie C would tell me about how we were making the world green
the bags looked black,perhaps that's why the teacher want's to see
mommie C because I don't know my black from green..If I was going
tp pick a Dad it would be darlek,thought you I was going to say Glen
ok our world is different,he will be Daddy Glen,hmm teachers do need a
raise..Monnie C would be ranting,Daddy d would be putting all the stickies
on the tearchers puter and anything he could think off..Best part when
we revive the teacher Daddy Glen would be passing out Gluten ffree
cookies..Now do you understand what little Sue means by green and black?
Poor underpaid teacher looks like she got hit by spit and one of Aunty
Mel's crosscountry shoes..On our way out the door Daddy darlek would
tell us to turn on visors,as not to be sad this evening...Daddy Glen
would let us have one more cookie and explain,why it was necessary
to crosscountry to school oh shoot we forgot the Triplets Bob,Brian and
Hey Joe...No wonder mommie c rants.:eek::eek: Hugs to Family Sue

So you don't think I should tie a piece of raw meat to a pole duct taped to my semi clothed body and run across the frozen tundra pursued by wolves (like on that commercial) to perhaps jolt myself out of my winter depression?

I bet it would work for me, :D



My brain is telling me to 'adaptively' curl up in a ball under 3 quilts, and six pillows and a big yellow dog balanced on top, and eat expensive Swiss chocolate bars with almonds, and stay there until it gets over 32 degrees farenheit, which at this rate could take at least 8 weeks.

I suppose I could construe that as depression. I encourage any shrink to cure this with meds...maybe ClubMed.



Sounds pretty adaptive to me.

I also love that first image--I don't think you need to be semi-clothed, though--wild women who run with wolves should be COMPLETELY naked, so they can be captured on YouTube and eventually be given a creative development contract by a studio trolling for new talent. (If you want to make it in show biz, you gotta take some risks--like frostbite.) :)

You two..you two...
 

You made me laugh! I have a vivid imagination and you both sure stirred it up. Cyclops you gotta find something to do. Some hobby. I know..takes so much effort, but you can do it. I'm still making jewelry. Sometimes I spend hours on the computer (days the eyes are willing) looking for 4 small pearl cabocheons (I know it's mispelled, but I'm too lazy to look it up). Seems no one makes them in a 3mm size. But this task occupies me for a couple of days. Then I decide..I can use onyx and the search is on. Occupies me for a few more days until I finally get lucky. Then I get to check the mailbox for several days until the stones needed to repair the earrings for a dear friend arrive.

You get the idea. These things keep me going. You have to have some purpose in your life, no matter how small. And I think something like this would be so much warmer and less likely to freak out the neighbors Glenn.:D

Billye

I have to find a hobby too. I want to learn to chrochet. As for the depression. I mean for me of course now a lot goes with my pain level. Right now my pain is very high with spreading issues and my mood is in the garbage. It is like when docs ask are you depressed about the pain. Yes of course I am. I used to be able to do so much and now its like I am just happy when my pain is tolerable and to sit in more comfort. My mom was saying though like when I have a moderate pain day and I can distract I seem to have a better mood. So I agree with silverlady about distraction though some pain of course it is impossible. Silverlady I took a jewlery class it is fun. My friend sells hers on the net. You should think of similar. I bet some people on the board may even buy.As we say in my therapy world one day at a time or even one moment. Many hugs to all and happy wishes

Keeping busy does help!
 

Its so hard - as mentioned - to "step away" from pain, etc.... and hobbies do help a lot! - my challenge has been to find new ones that dont require tons of physical exertion like my old ones - and I know when I play a bit with a hobby I've found I can do kinda at an angle so my back doesnt hurt - I forget the pain and time flys by....

Billye - know what you mean by looking for hours for one item - takes so much longer sometimes to find what you are looking for then actually making it! And I think my mailman has come to the point he's afraid I'm going to tackle him for any packages!

:)