Still Baffled by pain
 

As some of you know, I have been suffering from excruciating pain in my right arm, shoulder and hand since the first part of November. Thinking it was associated with the exacerbation I was experiencing, one would assume it would subside with the IVSM infusion I had over Thanksgiving. Well, it got worse. :(

The Wednesday after Thanksgiving, I finally gave in and went to the ER the pain was so bad. I had a full series x-ray of my right shoulder which showed nothing abnormal. ER doc referred me to an ortho specialist. He ordered an MRI of my shoulder. He said it also showed nothing abnormal. :confused:

Today, I saw the neurosurgeon. He says that there is definitely something on the spine MRI that I had on Nov 19th that is causing the lower arm/thumb/forefinger numbness and pain and possibly the neck and some of the upper shoulder pain. And he's going to take a closer look at the shoulder MRI, as he's not convinced it's normal. Something's got to be causing all this pain and lack of movement :confused:

He was also concerned about the increase in symptoms after I had the IVSM.

He is wondering if I might have a new lesion on the Thalamus causing the pain.

More testing is in order.

Brain MRI, EMG (I hate that!) and a cortisone shot in my neck to relieve some of the pain that the known pinched nerve at the C3/4 is causing.

So, I am still wearing this sling on my right arm and no idea when all these tests will be accomplished. I am so tired of all this pain. I told the doc today, I don't think I have ever been in this much pain even when I broke my ankle.

Guess I have some homework to do. Since my brain MRIs have been sealed for the last year or so due to the clinical trial, my neuro and I have no idea what has been happening. So, a new one is in order to see what's been going on. The last one I had was 2006, other than in the trial.

Merry Christmas everyone. ;)

My lil flygurl...sending you:hug::hug: and hoping that you get some relief so you can enjoy the Holiday.

I hope you get answers soon, have they considered adhesive carpulitis?

Sealed as in you can NEVER see them?
I hope your doc's successfull in figuring out what's going on. Constant pain justs drains everything out of you. :hug:

Well, that just sucks big time bilge water.

And I TOLD you that there was something going on with the MRI!! HA!!


Seeing a neurosurgeon's a good thing, FG. Hang your hat on it. ;)

It's a long story due to the fact that the clinical trial was terminated.

No kidding about pain being draining. :(

I like this neurosurgeon. He's excellent. I trust him as much as I do my neurologist.

I just WANT the PAIN to go away...

I hope they fix it soon Cheryl, and an easy fix at that... :hug::hug::hug: I'm sorry you have so much pain. :(

Sounds awful! Pain is no fun! We need answers!

We want answers...we are begging for answers! I even tried a bribe! :eek:

How's the Hawaii kid?

Hi Cheryl,

The nerves that go down to the hand from the C-spine are the Median, Ulnar, and Radial. The median nerve is the one that causes the feeling of "carpal tunnel".

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2..._44/Nerves.jpg

My hand always goes numb, and my arms get very weak & painful (spasticity??), whenever I am in a spinal lesion attack.

Here's more info, which will have to be copied into a word document to read because of the silly artwork that covers the words. :rolleyes:

http://www.upstate.edu/cdb/grossanat/limbs2.shtml

I wonder though if yours is related to MS (spinal cord damage), because normally when my spinal lesions are acting up, I go numb from that point down . . . like when someone breaks their neck (only not complete paralysis, but same principle). That would be a severe attack anyway ....

I have had times when only my neck, back and arms hurt though too. It comes on like an attack, and leaves like one (2 - 12 weeks). . . so I believe this can occur with MS.

Cherie

Definitely want answers! I don't blame you one bit for begging. You need relief ASAP -- this has gone on L O N G enough!

What I want to know is, what did you bribe him with? :Scratch-Head:

So sorry you are in so much pain. Arm problems suck. Can they send you to a pain specialist?

I used to think my walking problems were bad, but that was before I started having arm problems.

They're not finding any lesions on my spinal column. Found two osteophytes, one at c3/4 and at t6/7. Carpal tunnel has been ruled out, twice. Yes, that was thought about at first because of my job.

No torn ligaments or rotator cuff damage, no arthritis, but there is a lot of inflammation right now and ice seems to be helping with the pain somewhat. Pain meds don't even touch it, ER doc says it's because it's pressure pain.

Radiculopathy has been mentioned along with nerve root damage but not what's causing either. No trauma and no recent injury. The mere fact that the steroids made me worse makes everyone suspicious of a damaged nerve somewhere and that's the reason for the nerve conduction testing...oh I hate that test!

Sure makes working impossible and I have a wedding to do Jan 2nd. Good thing I have good helpers. Bride and 3 bridesmaids, 2 mothers, 2 grandmothers, 2 table center pieces to do not to mention all the boutonnieres. I am slowly learning to be left handed and doing things with one hand!

I just need to research thalamus lesions and pain now...I will get this all figured out pretty soon. I have to.
http://ms.about.com/od/glossary/g/thalamus.htm

I just learned something....or remembered something I forgot! Now I just need to dig out my MRIs and remind myself where my lesions are...or just wait for the new MRI which is probably easier!



Thanks for the info Cherie.

Cheryl, I am so sorry about all this pain, it is so frustrating I am sure. I hope they figure it out SOON!

Yeah....who's going to help you with all those salty margaritas on vacation? Oh oh ... you can wait on me! :D

Neurosurgeon mentioned a pain management specialist today as one of the options. I am up for anything at this point...well, almost....

My DH always said a little penuscillin cured all pain..:D

I am so so sorry, Cheryl, darn it anyway..:(..Feel better soon..:hug:

Here's what you want Cheryl, it will help with the pain.

Dirty Banana

1 oz creme de bananes
1 oz creme de cacao
1 oz Kahlua® coffee liqueur
2 scoops vanilla ice cream (substitute 2 oz Jamaican rum cream :))

Blend with ice cubes... :p

For best result, take with a large order of fries. ;)

Have a busy day at the shop tomorrow and then a massage scheduled at 3 pm and then my massage therapist and I are going out for "Happy Hour."

Sound like a plan for ending pain for me!

That is of course if the snow storm doesn't hit too hard and we get snowed in again :rolleyes:

So they think it is pain messages not being transmitted properly to and from the brain, because of the thalamus lesions? I don't really know much about that area of the brain, but it is in the brainstem, isn't it?

Did you have a lesion there the last time they looked?

I don't have carpal tunnel either, but I have very similar symptoms because of the damage to the spinal cord root where those nerves branch out ...

Wouldn't they expect a nerve conduction test show as "negative", IF it is from MS (vs peripheral nerve damage)?

Cherie

Of course there is lots they still don't know about the brain . . . but it seems it is a gateway for transporting information to the cortex:

Thalamic Function: Overview

1. It parcels out and in some way integrates different inputs related to all sensory modalities except olfaction.
2. It plays a key role in the control of motor systems by way of its connections with the basal ganglia and cerebellum, and with its interconnections with motor cortex.
3. Together with the cerebral cortex, it is involved in conscious awareness, and probably language and memory.
4. It has a role in the maintenance of rhythmic sleep-wake cycles through its
intralaminar nuclei.
5. It has an important role in affect associated with emotional tone through its connections with limbic and prefrontal cortex.

http://hubio532.biostr.washington.ed...lamus.indd.pdf

A simpler link:

http://bci.ucsd.edu/107astudyguide/module_08.htm

Of course, even if the nerves are damaged in our spinal cord (which they are not thinking is the case with you at the moment ...), there really isn't any "damage" to where we feel the pain. It's a distortion or "phantom" (sensory perception of) pain/buring/numbness, etc.

Personally, I don't think they've nailed it yet for you, from all I've read. :cool:

Cherie

I guess we shall see when all the tests are done.

gosh cheryl, i'm sorry you're going thru all this.
it sounds like your dr is on top of it all.
hang in there thru the tests. i hope they find out what's wrong.

somehow doesn't sound all neurological to me.
feel better soon.

A little jaeger tonight and no more pain!! LOL!

Oh DM...where art thou!!!


:D

We just have to have faith that the Docs will figure this out. (They just better hurry up!)

Okay..the Hawaii Kid is freak'n cold and ready to go back to 80 temps! We could not believe that it would keep dumping snow on us here.:mad: So lucky that he was able to get from San Fran to Eugene instead of Portland. With the one day break in the weather was able to drive down and pick him up. No planes...no trains...no buses...were moving...so felt very lucky that he had made it to that point.

Except...how can someone so smart........?:confused:

I told him it was snowing! (lmoa)

So...he had on sandals and had forgotten his shoes in Hawaii! Welp, sorry!:D

Hope you feel better our little Flygirl!

Just sending a :hug::hug: and hope tomorrow will be a better day.

Cheryl, sorry you are feeling so cruddy these days. If ice helps it's hard to believe it is MS related, right??? Hope you are feeling better soon! :hug:

I'm so sorry to hear of your pain, Cheryl. I can certainly empathize with you from having pain 24/7 for many years. It does wear you down after awhile and becomes the main focus of your life. Bah humbug!!! Sure hope your docs can figure out the problem and bring you relief!!

Gentle hugs.........:)

mysterious severe pain
 

like you describe can come from shingles.

And yes, they can go down the arm. That is where MINE came when I had them when I was in my mid 40's.

You do not have to have lesions, vesicles.

This can be tested for. A herpes zoster titre that is very high, would indicate this virus is active in the nerves.

Icing the roots in the neck may help. Also avoiding foods high in arginine may turn the virus off.
Over the years we had a PN patient with severe thoracic pain, and she listened to me, got the test, and ended up on Famvir. Pain gone!

If you have any Lidoderm patches, from the past, try them on the neck area, as well (over the roots).

Severe pain that does not show an organic cause on MRI or other testing, should be evaluated for zoster, IMO. It is often hidden.

Stress and consumption of high arginine foods is thought to
bring out an "attack" of shingles (and also herpes simplex in those infected with that)
http://www.globalherbalsupplies.com/...nformation.htm
Another test you can do yourself is to take about 2-3 grams of L-lysine to see if you can push the virus "back" into sleeping. Increasing L-lysine, lowers the arginine/lysine ratio, and often stops
attacks.
Arginine is what herpes uses to replicate, and it can bring on shingles pain.

It is just an idea, I think is worth exploring.
(If you have NOT had chicken pox in the past, the zoster pain is not likely--unless you
had a very mild case and did not recognize it as such).

did he rule out TOS?

so wassup with so many of us being one handed? creepy....really creppy says the one handed monkey.

:hug:

Whatever "gets" me (below the neck) during an attack, always ultimately gets both sides; neuropathic pain, spasticity, numbness, etc. I can get symptoms on either side (not in an attack), but "damage" occurs to both at the same time.

That's what makes me think this is something else, like a disc or peripheral nerve problem.

Cherie

can you take b12? pn responds well for many with b12. the pn forum has tons of threads and post about it.

:hug:

can we all chant together....pain sucks...pain sucks....

Thanks for the thought, curious. :hug:

My B (and D) levels are good, just had them both checked. My symptoms are definitely related to MS (spinal cord damage), and they know because it gets both sides at once.

I was thinking that Cheryl's might not be related to MS though, because she is only affected on one side.

Cherie

that's why i thought of TOS.

cheryl, take a peek at the TOS forum. in the stickies. there are many good graphics.

FG I wish it would get better real soon, good luck on the MRI, I know you mentioned you were taking something i think :Doh: (brain gas) has the doic suggested anything? leaving you in pain isnt what I call good, hang in there girl:hug::hug::hug:

awwww Cheryl.:( :hug::hug::hug:

thanks...I do get a B-12 shot every other week and my B-12 level is not low.

I thought about TOS as well and have looked.

Dag nabbit Cheryl..:( Feel better..:hug:

I read up on TOS (never knew anything about it before, thanks for the lead) and the info said it was caused by "compression of the brachial plexus". That is same area of injury that I linked to in my first posting, but just a different cause (not due to MS nerve damage at the root).

I think you are onto something with this!

Cherie

((((Cheryl))))