Student charged in fatal school stabbing
 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16709239/

Odgren’s attorney, Jonathan Shapiro, said Odgren has Asperger’s syndrome, a form of autism, and has been taking medications for many years.

“The defendant has a history of fairly serious psychological diagnoses and has also suffered from hyperactivity dysfunction for many years,” Shapiro said. “What is clear is John has a serious disability.”

The two boys got into a fight in a bathroom, and it spilled out into a hallway at Lincoln-Sudbury Regional High, authorities said. Odgren stabbed Alenson twice with a long knife — once in the abdomen and once in the heart, prosecutor Daniel Bennett said.



i wonder if medications make people go crazy
eat 3 apples a day -you might feel better

This story was on my local news; it happened about an hour from here, and it struck terror in me. :( It's so scary that our kids so often don't imitate until they're much older, and if they're exposed to violence, they have no idea what they're doing in some cases until it's too late. :( It just underscores that we must closely monitor what our kids see and make sure to explain as much as we can the differences between fantasy and reality. Even then, they might not get it, but we have to give it our best effort.


LIZARD :(

It's shockingly tragic thing to happen. :(
There's probably so much more to the whole story that we'll never know. I do also wonder what combination of medications the boy was taking and what they were actually treating, but I also wonder why he was carrying a knife in school, and a zillion other questions. Some of the news links I read online earlier about it were troubling. Someone, might have been the principal of the school or the lawyer or someone said it was "worst nightmare". Indeed.

edited to add: I've had a longstanding concern for many years with my son that someone would one day actually hurt _him_ (not the other way around) because they don't understand him. [never mentioned this anywhere before] He's pretty blunt with words, and says it how he see it... meaning he's not as likely to hold back with a comment as most other people would be. e.g. If something smells bad, he'll say it. He's also pretty naive as to people's intentions sometimes. Got himself in a situation a couple of times where a guy his age took advantage of his generosity with money and my son lost out. He did learn a big lesson from that and is more careful thank goodness. It's one of those things that isn't easy to teach someone else without going overboard... that people aren't always kind and caring and that there are conartists out there or worse. :/

My prayers and thoughts go to the family of both boys.

I think they need it. And I hope the boy that did the stabbing
can get some real help. I have a feeling he is going to need it.

I don't think he knew what was going on exactly at the time.

Donna

so sad to hear of this :(

Lizard, you are so right re needing to help kids understand the difference between fantasy and reality with all the violence they are exposed to via TV, movies and video/computer games!

I too wonder whether medications may have played a role in all this, having experienced a brief period of medication induced psychosis with my son 7 years ago. He didnt hurt anyone else but he did hurt himself and it was awful for him because he literally couldnt stop.....thank God a savvy doctor recognised what was happening and helped us withdraw from the medication cocktail that was inducing the psychosis!

Lara, sounds like we have very similar son's!
One thing that comforts me is that my son seems to have learned (sadly by experience) as to just how mean some can be, especially when they perceive any "difference" as with his TS. He seemed to find a way to diffuse bullies with a sharp sense of humor which has thankfully protected him thus far.
He is very outspoken and doesnt hestitate to stand up for what he believes is right, or to come to the defense of the "underdog".
I feel a bit less concerned about it now that he is a six footer at 17!

Still, I think for all of us mom's with kids who have any form of illness or neruo issues etc....we are always feeling that extra sense of concern

This just makes me so heart-sick :(

The news reporters here are talking with other kids from the school -- "he (the one with the knife) was the 'weird' kid who always got teased"; "he (the one with the knife) had a knife 'collection' at home"; "he (the one with the knife) walked around in the woods with a machete". Where were the parents in all this??

No security at the school (not even metal detectors).

G-D. Again. How many warning signs do we need that someone that is fragile shouldn't be picked on and harassed and teased??

You're right -- we'll never know the whole story. But, how many times do we have to watch kids who are ticking time bombs being teased and harassed and embarrassed before we teach our kids that you don't treat another human being like that.

The "popular kid" says one, small insignificant thing to the kid who has trouble understanding subtle differences in phraseology ... If the school had paid attention to the warnings/messages from Columbine, there would not have been a knife in that school.

Even now, the District Attorney is saying that he won't recommend metal detectors in the school.

When are we going to learn :( So many lives destroyed because AGAIN no one paid any attention to messages from other tragedies and AGAIN no one paid any attention to warnings signs :(

Barb http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...sad-candle.gif

I suspect this kid (the alleged killer) has been taunted for years, and of course, it's possible that the victim was one of his tormentors, so he (alleged killer) carried the knife to protect himself, but 1) ASD kids often act very impulsively; and 2) his parents certainly should have been aware of the knife. Most importantly, 3) why on earth were there no metal detectors or some other form of security at the school??!! It appears that, yes, little has been learned from Columbine. :(

I was struck by what the boy with alleged AS said afterward. He seemed genuinely concerned that he had killed the other boy and repeatedly asked if he were okay. I think he went into some kind of psychosis during the fight they apparently had beforehand and didn't realize the boy was hurt badly enough to die until it was too late. :( What a shame...:(


LIZARD :(

I think parents of ALL kids need to make sure that their children's schools are safe -- metal detectors on all doors and locked doors -- NO ONE gets in without going through the metal detector and without being escorted to their appointment with a teacher or a principal or assistant principal.

In this day and age, you can't just have people walking into buildings and wandering around without someone knowing that they're there.

All parents that have kids in school now should get together with the kids and the teachers at the schools several times a year and have discussions about "differences".

I was teased because I was shy and wore glasses. It's affected my whole life. My Brother was teased because he was gay. He's dead.

I've seen in the past 10 years or so that our teenage boys and young men are walking around with a lot of anger and rage. I wonder sometimes if their hormones are screwed up because of the environmental pollution.

If parents and kids and teachers got together maybe quarterly and discussed the ways that you should and should not treat people that are 'different'. Discussed what to do if you overhear something 'scary' that someone says. Discussed ways to bring everyone into feeling that they BELONG. I think it would go a long way toward making sure that this doesn't happen again.

I remember when my son was 11, his Grandmother (my Mother) was dying from cancer. I was overwhelmed. Working 10 hours a day. Supervising home care. Single parent. Outside and shoveling up a blizzard to get the car out so I could go to work. My son wanted to come out and shovel snow. I said "no, you need to feed Grandma". He whined, "I don't know HOW". It hadn't dawned on me that I hadn't shown him how to do that. I just assumed. I showed him how to feed her and give her her pills. He had a big grin on his face 'cause he felt useful.

How many kids know what to do when they face crisis?? How many kids know how to include others in their world or at least not harass others because they're different??

That's what our kids need to me taught HOW TO DO -- make everyone around them feel useful and necessary and WANTED. It'd be a much better planet.

Hugs.

Barb

Its amazing how many dont know about people with autism having rages or anger to do harm. My son Adam who will be 12 in Aug was FINALLLLLLLLY diagnosed with PDD-NOS this past week. I have tried telling people for 11 YEARS that he has a form of autism but professionals never believed me. Family and friends saw it but the ones who NEEDED to see it didnt believe me TIL NOW.. FINALLY on my birthday ( 5-2) he was diagnosed (I believe).. Here is what I posted on another autism forum.. SOrry I dont type well and so its easier to copy and paste and so its kinda last weeks news.. BUT its happy news to me...

5-1-07
I know some wouldnt consider this a birthday present.. but I do.

As you know I have been trying for a LONG TIME to get Adam looked at for his behavior and rages and assesed for Aspergers/HF autism and/or Bipolar..

Well his psycologist/counselor finally stated last week that he needs to see a psychiatrist and that this was beyond ADHD (NO KIDDDDDDINGGGGGGGGG ) When the boy is having raging fits and writing papers FOR SCHOOL about how he is going to kill certain people and then last week wrote how he is going to kill all the coyotes (we live in the country) because they killed his cat and that NO ONE is going to stop him (not even his mom or dad and he isn't going to stop himself) etc.. He told me last month in a rage that he was going to kill his brother and that I was only going to have 3 sons soon. .

Well she gave me the name of one and I checked to see if he was on our insurance.. HE IS!! I called... the soonest she said they could get him in was May 30th. bummer.. I was hoping to get him in BEFORE his skin cancer treatment on the 22nd and in before school was out and get some meds started and see if it helps awhile before school is out June 7th.

Well today I happened to be home for a little bit and got a call. It was that doctors office calling me.. They told me they happened to have a cancelllation for TOMORROW (my birthday) and if it was ok to bring Adam in!!!

I SAID YES!!! That it would be a great birthday present for me. lol They could have taken ANY of thier patients they had this month but they called Adam.. I explained some of what we are dealing with on Adam and why I was hoping to get Adam in earlier than the 30th.

So I picked him up after lunch tomorrow and take him in!! I hope we can get SOME answers tomorrow.. but if not its a START!!!

So much for me going out to lunch for my birthday. lol

I go in the morning to get an injection in my foot.. MIGHT be able to squeeze something in like a late breakfast tho I dont eat much anymore since losing weight... Then go get Adam and come back into town.. LOTS of gas and driving tomorrow.. but it will be ok for that.

Answers coming soon... I HOPE..

Gina Marie

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
5-2-07

The appt went well!! He spent most of the appt with me and some with Adam and will spend the next appt with Adam mostly.

He does agree that Adam is probably PDD-NOS (a form of Autism/Aspergers). FINALLY after YEARS of telling people. When I told him who the regional center sent him to see (thier autism specialist) when he was 6 yrs old, the psychiatrist said he hated that guy. lol (I wonder how he REALLY FEELS lol). The OTHER guy even didnt call Adams constant hand clapping "Stimming".. He called it "Stereotypic movement disorder"

He still isnt sure about the bipolar yet. He feels Adam has depression. He says with all the medical stuff Adam is going thru and the seperation AND with having the PDD-NOS it can all cause depression and rages. He said he wont put him on anything for it yet til he see's him again but if he does it will probably be Lamatical.

I feel a load better that someone agrees with me. He said btwn him and our psycologist that is counseling Adam that they can get Adam extra help for school and home with the spectrum stuff (THANK YOU JESUS)!!!

I'm going to write him a letter to explain stuff I either forgot or couldnt explain right while there. Adam will see him again on the 15th and they are keeping our appt on the 30th. I do want to look at treating the rages because of him threatening to kill people and animals.. Tho the 15. co pays will kill me. They dont take our Medi-cal. Im going to see especially if he is giving him a diagnosis if Adam's CCS (California Childrens Services) will pick it up.

He also gave me more forms for his teachers and me to fill out. I havent looked at them yet to see if they are the ADHD forms (to see if he is getting enough Adderall) or if its for the other things.

So YES this was a good birthday.. The foot injection this morning didn't feel to swift but at least it is over when the injection is. We are trying to kill the nerves in the top of my foot so it will stop hurting.

Gina Marie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When I talk to thier pediatrician about the rages and all she feels its more bipolar. She said she hasnt seen the rages like this in Aspergers/autism. She doesnt think he was dealing with the autism. Tho he doesnt have the rages at school. The school didnt believe he had autism because they said he is so sweet and quiet. YES because he doesn't socialize with the kids. At first he was put on the bench or detention for not doing schoolwork.. When I tell them or they realize that he doesnt play with the kids anyway they realize its not punishment anyway. lol He says by himself anyway. Others have told me that is the scary part is that because he is quiet and to himself.. those are the type that will do something and no one will believe that he was the one that would have done it.

Im so happy someone FINALLY believed me and he is going to finally get Adam some help (therapies and regional center etc.)

Gina Marie

((((((Gina)))))),

http://chocolate-moose.p5.org.uk/MIN...bears-mini.gif

I'm so glad you finally got someone to listen.

You know my son's had the same type of anger/rage almost his entire life.

I don't think 'autism' but maybe. Maybe something psychiatric too.

I've seen first-hand that the rage can be defused if there's intervention. I'm so glad that this is finally going to be possible for you son.

You're right -- fantastic birthdya present :hug: BIG HUGS (and love).

Barb