B12 and Folate
 

Hi all,

So I'm thinking of adding B12 to my regimen. Should I also add folate, given they work together? I'm looking through the wonderful and very long B12 thread, but thought I'd also post here in case I don't find anything specifically on this point. The Pure Encapsulations B12 Folate seems good, with minimal additives (and bioavailable versions), which I avoid always, but I would have liked the B12 to be closer to 1000 mcg and the folate to be half of what it is.

If they should be taken together, should I use this one, or do people have another brand they know, or still yet perhaps I should take them separately?

Thanks in advance.

If one has the DNA mutation, called, MTHFR, then the use of BOTH methylfolate and methycobalamin is necessary.

If one does not have this mutation, then the folate is not as necessary. The American diet has many fortified foods, with folic acid in them. The MTHFR mutation cannot methylate (activate) folic acid properly.

Commonly when people have B12 testing, the folate measured then is usually high. This is called the methyl trap. This happens when B12 tests low.

Products with methylfolate are a bit more expensive than methylB12 products. One such is called Metafolin by Solgar.
But there are others, now too.

I wouldn't go over 800mcg a day.

The testing for MTHFR can be done thru 23andme.

Thanks again, MrsD. Perhaps I'll just start with B12. I'll see how that goes. Perhaps I can get my folate and B12 tested (though the latter was tested in the summer and said to be 'normal', whatever that means).

I don't eat any fortified foods, preparing everything from scratch myself and eating a very basic paleo diet, so no folic acid for me. However, I do eat some very folate rich foods like spinach, avocado and asparagus.

I looked into the genetic testing, but I'm not too keen on a for profit company having so much genetic info on me. And also, I wrote them and responded accordingly:

"Thank you for contacting the 23andMe Team. While our platform does include a small number of SNPs on the MTHFR gene, 23andMe does not report on all variants on this gene nor do we provide an interpretation of these SNPs. This information would be available only in the raw genotype data...If receiving information about MTHFR is your primary goal, we cannot recommend that you participate in 23andMe."

Plus, I'm not sure I want to know everything they can find out about me! But it does sound very cool and got me excited initially at least. A part of me does want to know.

So if you choose not to get the DNA testing, you should take at least 400-800mcg of methylfolate with the methylcobalamin.

The posters here who have had the 23andme testing provided the CMTT and MTHFR results, here as raw data. Maybe 23andme have changed their format?

Your doctor can order this DNA test for you and maybe you should consider that?

Thanks, MrsD. Perhaps I'll ask my physician next time. Perhaps I could just circumvent it, if I can't get the test, and take some folate too, as you say. It's not like a decent level of folate is bad, at least I think.

Not sure about 23andme and why they responded as they did. IS CMTT the same marker?

For now my physician wrote another B12 test and a vitamin D test, and ferritin, I believe. Also included in there are a number of other tests. My magnesium was tests and came back at 0.85 mmol/L.

Sorry, the CMTT is an error on my part.... C677T is a cousin which is a methyl transferase enzyme. It looks from what I see posted here to be included with the MTHFR snps.

http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/MTHFR

I am sorry it is the C677T...:o My old brain has always been confused with abbreviations.

The risks for using folate in high doses, pertains to having low B12 and not knowing it. In these cases, the folate masks neurological symptoms leading to damage.

This is why RX folate of 1mg or above requires a doctor's prescription.

Folate is added to cereals, flour, and pastas. (also breads) in the US.

Oh, not at all, Mrs.D. :)

I think I'll just supplement with 400 mg of folate or no more and then say 1 or so mg of B12, at least until I can get tested.

No process (so fortified) foods for me. :)

Thank you again.

David:
For info - 23andme originally gave out full genetic reports, then they were prohibited from doing so by the government. Now, in the past month or so they were allowed to provide genetic reports again, but they only provide information on a handful of conditions which do not include MTHFR.

However, there are several companies that will take the "raw data" from 23andme, and run a very detailed analysis. (I used promethease) There are also some others that will do a specific analysis on your potential methylation issues and MTHFR. Note that 23andme/promethease has several genetic markers (such as the "alzheimers gene") that they will not provide reports on unless you specifically "opt in".

I understand your concerns over privacy, and not wanting to know "too much". I had the same concerns, but decided that knowing my MTHFR status was more important than my privacy concerns. Based on the testing, I found that I have the C677T mutation as well as several other methylation related mutations. As a result, I've been able to tailor my supplement regime to deal with those issues. My SFN symptoms haven't gone away, but they haven't really progressed since improving my supplements. And, I definitely "feel better" overall.

Thanks, Ragtop. Much appreciated. So perhaps I should get this checked out. I'll check out Promethease. I would have to go through 23andme and get all the raw data first, right? So that would give me all the information I'm not too keen on knowing, correct? I would then get even more info not just methylation info from Promethease? I suppose I'm just confused about the process.

Now, could I just supplement with sufficient B6, folate and B12? Or does it help to get even more precise in respect of dosage based on such info?

I should note, also as an FYI for MrsD, that my B12 came back as 515.

Had you been taking vitamins when you had that test?

If not, it is still rather low. You would do better to have a level of 1000 or so. If you had not taken any B12 for several days, it is still just barely normal. As a first test, you really do not know if you are coming down, or going up. If you are coming down with that 515 that would be concerning.

People with homozygous genes (meaning only one of two genes in a pair) tend to limp along with it until something happens to stress them, or they use up all their liver stored B12...and then symptoms appear. The heterozygous ones with 2 genes missing often develop symptoms at younger ages.

Certainly you can supplement yourself:
50mg P5P (B6) -- NOW makes an affordable one.
400-800mcg of methylfolate (Metafolin)
1 to 5mg methylcobalamin a day (on an empty stomach).

None of these is problematic in any way.