[Vicc]

This is stream of conciousness stuff...whatever comes int my mind next gets typed:

I have a wonderful son who is 38 going on 3. He is a loving, caring and empathetic individual who has, for almost three years, sent us $150.00 out of every paycheck because he knows we're having hard times financially and he loves us.

He is also a psychotic jerk whose anger can go from zero to mach 3 in less than a second. I've never worked in anger management; those people **** me off. Anyway my son is a Republican. Let me rephrase that: he's a Republican.

If Barney ever betrays George Bush; ever says "it's time to get the Hell out of Iraq", my son will be there to take his place. George will never stand alone.

I'm not a Democrat. I can't vote for anyone who supports abortion. If the world were about to be engulfed in nuclear war and the only thing that could prevent it was my vote for a "pro-choice" candidate, get ready to meet your Maker.

I am a radical. I opposed the war in Viet Nam. I was the spokesperson for an organization that opposed the war. One that happened to be based in Chicago before and during the 1968 Democratic National Convention. We ceased to exist on day 2 of that convention, when the State of Illinois filed warrants charging officers in our organization with everyting from inciting to riot to picking our noses in public. We decided that leaving Illinois was preferable to prison.

Anyway, you can see how there might be some conflicts of opinion over king george, Iraq or any of a number of things where my views collide with those of Republicans; and more importantly, with those of my son.

If I say something that I think is totally non-controversial; like 'Nobody will assasinate Bush because they know Cheney would get the job", I don't expect anyone to react by screaming that I have no respect for him; that I have made it clear that that I think Republicans are evil so I must think he's evil to so maybe we just shouldn't talk to each other anymore.

People don't over-react like that. But my son does.

Dolphin, I'll take the 12 year old plus any pre-teen of your choice, plus, of course your beautiful baby, if you'll take Sean. Hell, I'm ready to trade him for the 12 year old and the preteen without the baby. He is driving me insane.

For the last 36 hours or so I have really been having fun here. Marks thread to Artist was pure genius, even though no one could have predicted it would go where it's gone. I love where is's gone and can't wait to see where it's going next. So do many others; the number of replies and hits in this short span of time proves we want to be happy. We want to play.

And right this moment, after just finishing a conversation with my son, all the joy of something new and fun has been ripped out of me. I feel like I did when my mother sent me to live with my grandparents because she just couldn't stand watching her husband abuse me anymore. "Mommy, why do I have to go? Why not get rid of the bully?"

You guys have been there for me throughout the whole period when I was trying to find a way to want to live after learning the number and extent of my wife's infidelities. You didn't ask me why I didn't just leave her. You somehow understood that if I could have done that I would have done it three years ago, when the facts started coming out. You let me talk and didn't criticize me. That's exactly what I needed: Friends.

Now I'm going through this with my son. I could just tell him to ****-off, and many fathers would, and people would understand; sometimes you have to save yourself.

Last night I was working on an article for my website, glancing once in a while at Marks thread for a booster humor shot, and telling myself that I am finally on the right track. This time I'm writing something people will read. I felt as good as I've felt in a very long time. Now I feel like home-made ****.

I hope that writing this will help pull me out of this hole. I know I can go back on Paxil, but if I do that I probably won't be able to write; not like I have been. Paxil puts the fire out, and I need that fire.

So, there's nothing you can do or say to help me. I have to make my own trail. This post is exploring that trail. As a psychotherapist, I know that just writing words down isn't enough. You have to say those words to other humans that you know care about you.

So that's what I'm doing. Talking about my pain to people who care: You. I hope it works. I hope it works right away. I want to post on Mark's thread again...Vic

[dolphin]

ahhhh Vicc....your really make me look forward to these little one's growing up...AHHHHH. How do I stop them? This is a great place to vent..But now I think I will never let them grow up. At least my 12 year old does not understand politics YET. Well I hope you feel better since the venting...if not just close your eyes and remember him as a baby, with the baby smell, baby powder. (not the screaming, dirty diaper smell...lol).
The horrible politics I understand...why do we live in the "bible belt"...

[dreambeliever128]

I don't know if we are suppose to talk politics here or not so I won't elaborate too much.

I have a Brother that doesn't call me of late because he is a GB fan from the word go. I told him he wasn't born a Republican that you choose that later on in life what you want to be. Back in the states such as Ky. Tenn, Indiana and some of those states most seem to be Repulicans. I was born to a Republican family. I don't talk to them too much about politics but for some reason my brother, just looses his cool when you say anything bad about any Republican.

I think what you said about voting for neither a Rep. nor a Democrat is most likely what we will see in the next election. There are very few of those hard core Rep. happy with GB nowadays.

As far as your son. I think what you have to do is just try and remember from now on how strongly he feels about GB and not get on that topic is possible. Don't let it get to you either. Believe me I know how hard it is to do. I actually campained really hard against the Reps. in this last election. I campained in the Drs. offices while I was sitting waiting for an appt. Anywhere I was at I talked about politics and got a conversation going and got my thoughts in. I ran into very few that felt differently then I did.

I don't waste my time on those people that feel otherwise because they are not seeing the whole picture I don't think so you just have to be ok with how they feel.

The statement about Chainey taking over, I heard that one last week. I thought how stupid it was that they wouldn't impeach one because the second was worse.

Another thing I do a lot of praying to God to help straighten up the mess that has been made of this country and help get it going back in the right direction. I'm hoping he is listening. I see so much heartache and dispair out there nowadays that has came on in the past few years unnecessarily. You wonder how one person can almost destroy a whole world.

Don't let it bother you about him. He will come around and get over his anger. Susan does it when I say something to her that she doesn't like. Also be ok with how you feel and with what you believe in. Things will work out find.

I agree coming here helps to make things better at a time when we have trouble with our kids or other problems. It's like a family here. It's good that you can come here to vent and feel good about it.

Just take in some breaths and relax and let go of the anger and frustration and enjoy the funny post we have here today.

Ada

[allentgamer]

I had a lot to say but thought man, I would be here all night typing a brazillian thoughts.

[WickedGood]

This is really not the kind of posting one likes to see. (A fellow friend so upset). But it is good to see that you feel comfortable enough with us to share your personal problems with us. I don't know a whole lot about much, but one thing I have learned over the years is to take control of a situation and keep control of it. In other words not allowing another person to get me so angry.

I try not to discuss politics with family and friends. In this day and age it is such a touchy subject. I have actually seen folks stop talking to others because of political beliefs. So sad. Second of all, your family is your family. Once gone thats it. No more, never again. Love them in the moment and cheerish the fact that you have them. I know it is different for everyone but that is what makes up the family dynamic. I know you love your son very much. Maybe next time when you feel like he is getting on your last nerve, kindly let him know you have to hang up if you are on the phone or ask him to leave if he is visiting and to come back at a different time. it is your home, and you have every right.

I apoligize in advance if my opinion is not warranted but I feel that if you didn't want us to be there for you, you would have kept it to yourself. And I never pass up the opportunity to help a friend if I can. Oh and by the way, You need to post a pic of yourself. Hang in there my friend. You got your family here whenever you need us!!!!

Chin Up Vic!!!!!!! Mark

Hey Vic,

Cheer up, old bean. It seems to me that all us children of the sixties, who believed so fervently in equality and freedom of expression and choice and became socialists of various kinds, still believe it all to varying extents.

Life teaches you a few lessons you wish you'd understood better when you were younger, but by and large the experience of the sixties was so powerful that we are imprinted for life.

And you know what's happened? Just among my own friends, mostly creative types as you might imagine and, like you, smoked dope only the once but continuously for decades (many still haven't stopped) have kids who've become...guess what?

Policemen, accountants, lawyers, fund managers, bank managers.... .....go figure.....

One of the things I like about being out here in HK is that is has helped me loosen up the "tick list" we have in out heads when we meet people - you know, mentally you're listening to someone and going " oh, he's a conservative (put x in the box) oh, he's a scientologist (put x in the box) oh, he's a social worker (just threw that in to see if you were awake) ...". Here you've got to take people as they are, quite a lesson for the learning.

Some of the people I like a lot here have, in my view, horrendous views (racist, even) - but then they have a great sense of humour, or are tremendously generous, or rescue puppies....OK, they don't usually become my best friends but I've learned simply to never talk within the danger zone and enjoy the good bits.

Speaking of which, pro-life, con-life, well I think that's one of the few things in life which should be entirely up to the parents, with the deciding vote going to the woman - I'm not even sure if men should be allowed a view... but it's an issue in a class of it's own.

So...you're not alone, my friend, never think that. But I can see how infuriating it is!

BTW, Ada, when we were setting up Neurotalk, political discussion was talked about. It's OK to discuss it, but not to argue about it, basically. No name-calling, LOL.

lots of hugs
all the best!

[Joselita]

Vic,
I am sorry that you have gotten so upset because of you and your son's differing political opinions. Speaking as a child of the 60's, and the daughter of a true blue Hippie (I was born in ‘69, the day after they walked on the moon...which makes me a "moon child" in more ways then one! ROFL), I think that the very fact that your son has such strong beliefs, and that he is very willing to stand up for them, just goes to show that you raised him right. Even though it would up that his views differ from yours enough to drive you crazy (and him too!), and to cause these big clashes between the two of you, you should still be proud that you have a son that is willing to stand up for what he believes in. I mean..if you look at it that way, doesn't he take after you in that respect? Maybe the things that he is standing up for and supporting are not the things that you ever would, or that you agree with at all, but he IS willing to stand up, state his position, and then stand behind it, even when it is pretty obvious at this point that maybe "his side" didn't have such good ideas, or handle things so very well. Have you considered that maybe that is where some of his "anger" is coming from? Frustration because things have so totally gone astray, and not worked out at all like everyone was promised they would? Since I don't know your son at all, I am only making an assumption here, because I DO Know you and as I just said, I think that his apple didn't fall very far from the tree in some respects. Haven't YOU gotten angry from becoming frustrated by how things wind up turning out? Haven't you rebelled and protested...LOUDLY...to make a point to stand behind your convictions? My generation doesn't do much in the way of organized demonstrations, but we can and DO protest loudly in other ways. Sad to say that lots of times our "protesting" is to our parents.

I have a weird thing for you. As I said, I was raised by an x-hippie and a very liberal mom. My mom is and always has been a Democrat. My Dad is a Economics, and Finance Professor and used to be a Republican...and HE used to be the Hippie! Go figure. My Mom, and President Regan (and probably his prior "hippiedom" ), helped him to change lots of his political views. LOL. But, like anything else, he had to make the choice himself. It wouldn't have mattered if he had stayed a Registered Republican, my Mom loves him no matter what. I think that a lot of the reason that he changed political veiws is because of her, and seeing and hearing her plight as a Single Mom (remember, he is my and my brother's adoptive dad). But, I don't know, as I have never talked to him about any of this. I just know that both of my parents raised me to also stand up for what I believe in, and to take a stand when it really matters...and that my voice counts, and to USE that voice and Vote. It sounds like you did the same for your son. In other words, you did a good job!

I think that you should be proud that you have a son that does try to look at how things are going...and that uses his Right and Votes. So many people of my generation, and of the younger generation do not, as they think that their vote does not matter.

I also think that maybe you should agree to disagree with your son's political veiws and values. I mean, when you really get down to the heart of the matter, is his being a Republican THAT important? Does it make him less of a person or a man in your eyes? Is it worth damaging and possibly losing the relationship that you and he have, just because you don't see eye to eye politically? The whole country is under stress right now, and so many people have such differing views. You know what? The fact that so many people have those differing views, and stand behind them, is what makes this country America. No one has to believe like anyone else, and no one has to stand for the same things as anyone else. As long as folks aren't crazy (some kind of extremist crazy...we DO have those here in this country too...and they DO wear the veils of Republican and Democrat,, and any other Party of even religion that we have here in this country. That is the kind of "Crazy" that I am talking about), and abide by the laws, and RESPECT each other's right to have those differing views...we will all be alright in the end.

Maybe, for at least the time being, you and your son should sit down and make an agreement to NOT talk about politics when you are together. Make an agreement to agree to disagree, and leave it at that. If each of you respect that, and stay away from the touchy political subject.....then maybe that would help him to have one less thing to wind up getting angry about, and you could have the same, plus one less thing to stress you and help to cause your Depression to fire up. I believe that each one of you loves the other, and that neither one really enjoys the arguments and fights and harsh feelings that wind up happening over political discussions. Each one of you just has to realize, recognize and respect that the other is NOT going to believe the same way, and is NOT going to allow the other to sway them in their convictions. Again, I think that your son is a chip of the Vic Block, and is very stubborn and determined when he sets him mind to something. Like his father, he will hold on and refuse to have someone tell him that he needs to believe or think differently.

One last thing that I want to say here...and that is kinda repeating myself again (as I know I have already done a few times here..LOL), is this; I think that you son, like myself, being born during the time that we were, and being raised by "hippies" in what ever guise they tried to wear when the got older (talking about my Dad here....the Econ/Finance reformed Republican Prof. LOL), had the benefit to be raised as Free Thinkers, and with the convictions to believe what we believe for whatever reasons that we believe them, and to NOT have ANY problem at all stating those beliefs and standing up for them. Having been raised as we were, I am pretty sure that it is safe to say that gives us a great love for this country of ours, and that you couldn't find more patriotic people if you tried. We love this country, and we love the Rights that we have because of living in this country. We know that we are entitled to believe as we see fit, no matter who disagrees with us, and we refuse to be swayed from standing up for those beliefs. Much like our parents did, since it was THEM (you..my folks...) that raised us to know that we are free to believe in what we like, and to support what we think is best, and Woe Unto ANYONE that tries to tell us differently! ROFL...probably, you son and I have another thing in common, as we were both raised by very STUBBORN parent/s, and that stubborn streak was passed down to us. You know how it is to be stubborn Vic; the more that someone tries to tell you that you are wrong, or that you should or shouldn't do something...the more that you try to prove other wise and will fight even harder against "change"..some times when that change might really be the best thing. LOL, I know that I have been guilty of that, myself. Haven't you?

Anyway...I hope that when things calm and cool down between you and your son, you both can see that there are bigger things worth fighting each other about. Pick and choose your battles, Vic. You and I have LOTS of things that are more important to fight and battle against on a daily basis. We don't need to battle our loved ones over things that...when you get down the fact of the matter...are a drop in the bucket when sized up to all of the other problems that we have going on. You son is who he is. You love him. He loves you. It doesn't matter who is an Independent, Democrat, Republican, Green, Libertarian, or Constitutionalian ( Hmm...is that how you would say that? Members of the Constitution Party??)..or not. Political views are different between each and every person...and come in so many different "Flavors". They should not matter when it comes to loving someone, and wanting to have a good relationship with that someone....Do they?

Ok. I am putting up my Soap Box for now (I would have put the little smiley soap bax guy here, but he looks like he is MAD and hollering! I am not mad, nor am I hollering. LOL. We need another soap box guy...or "preacher" or something. What do you think? ROFLAMO!). I just felt that I needed to say something here, because I really hate to hear you sounding so upset and depressed. I hope that you and your son can come up with some sort of agreement to disagree with each other, and to understand that it is ALRIGHT to do so...and that no one is going to get all upset and angry and stop talking to anyone. That maybe you all can just kinda make the whole "Political Thing" taboo and off topic, at least for now, and respect each other for the men of convictions that you both are. I do hope that you all will be able to continue to do that, even in the upcoming Election Year, and that you all just don't even ask each other who or what the other is voting for or against or whatever. I would hate to see you all not be able to talk to each other about things that are more important to you both, and your family.

Ok. REALLY shutting up now. I hope that I haven't upset you....as I don't mean to do that in the least. I hope you know that by now..right?

Lots of Love and
Jose <---who also believes in what she believes in, but won't fight about it with people that she cares about! LOL

[Jomar]

You all say it so well.

I really dislike the "labels" part of politics and labels in general I guess!
Unless they make a "middle of the road" or the "compromise" party

At work most of us always tried to steer clear of any of those "hot" topics but it was really hard during election years. Or when certain legislation came up for vote.