Can't sleep, even with lots of oxycodone, so a couple of quick points. First to Vic, I've come up with what should be a stable link to the 2004 Apkarian article, and revised my initial post accordingly. Hopefully (1) it will work and (2) I'll be able to get a copy of the new article in short order.

Now to Betsy. I cannot begin to imagine the strength of character that's required to go through this at your age. I have two sons, the oldest is 14 and he's adapted to a lot of health problems over the years, but nothing as significant as RSD! I join Rogue in commending you on your openness and presence of mind.

I guess the good news is that while having good coping/equanimity skills can't hurt at any age, it is my understanding that young people have a much better prognosis with this disease, translating into a much higher chance for successful recoveries, either spontaneously or through medical therapies.

And while this is admittedly "off topic," I have it on good authority that - to be specific - the younger you are, the greater the probability that a trip to Germany would produce a successful outcome. If you haven't seen it, I would urge you and your parents to take a look at a short article written for people without any medical background called "Overview of Ketamine Infusion Therapy," by Philip Getson, DO which is posted on the Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome Assn. webpage at http://www.rsds.org/3/treatment/ketamine.html You're in my heart kid.

Mike

Poor rats! But, I am wondering how they monitor the pain that the rats feel? And, if they can monitor that, why can't they do the same for humans? We (RSD'ers) might seem healthy on the outside, suffering on the inside. The rat's aren't able to voice their pain on a scale, or tell their Researchers that the pain has travelled, or changed from zappy pains to deep aching pains. How do the researchers know that? Or, am I just not able to understand the whole concept, and missed the point altogether....hee hee....(most likely scenario!)
Hippy

Hi Everybody,

I wish the rats could talk. Roz

Thanks for this post Mike. I hope this reply doesn't come off as negative but I just see this study as giving support to all medical professionals who see RSD as an ailment that is "all in our heads". I didn't know rats had "old memories" or that there was a way to measure their physical pain. And, how does one measure a rats emotional response to pain? I wasn't even aware that rats had much going on in the emotion department. I just see this as a bunch of medical mumbo jumbo that works against us. But,thanks. Jeannie

Jeannie -

With all respect, I must disagree. I think that a medication that could reduce the "suffering" component of the pain experience would be wonderful. I mean, people spend years seeking that kind of equanimity through meditative practice, and having attained it from time to time, I can tell you that there's much to recommend it. If it can be put in a bottle, why not?

Put it another way, if there isn't a magic potion that simply takes the pain away, isn't having the ability to work around it - not in some old fashion and nasty cognitive/behavioral model - but to really and truly do so, the next best thing?

And for what it's worth, Apkarian is the last guy to believe that pain is "all in your head" having proved that chronic pain pain actually results in the loss of gray matter over time. Which is to say, that it's organic as hell.

Mike

OK guys,

I agree, Mike.

Sooo... no need to get your knickers in a twist, everyone, as we say in the UK, lol. Let's not be so sensitive about the psychological components that we dismiss a potentially very beneficial experiment, though I'd like to know more about it, hopefully when it's fully published, I will.

People in chronic pain speak of experiences they suffer on a daily basis: anger, frustration, depression, worry, worthlessness, and hopelessness. They deal with extremely unpleasant sensory and emotional experiences, which often last a lifetime. Welcome to the limbic system. As Mike says, does it much matter how we achieve escape from these things?

So, to clear up what I think may be a few misunderstandings...

Firstly, a "memory trace" is not a scrap of memory. The first live "memory trace" was only seen as recently as mid 2004. They think that memory is made up of small pieces of transient data, some of which they can "see" now on an fMRI - that *is* a "memory trace - which exist for a short while – usually seconds, sometimes hours, but then it's gone. Then they think it gets shuttled elsewhere, but that mechanism is still a mystery. A full "memory" is made up of a zillion retrieved pieces of data. The brain is not like a computer's hard drive, with hard data being written to a central data bank. The brain stores stuff all over the place.

And no need to get all emotional over the phrase “emotional brain”. The "Emotional Brain" is just another name for the Limbic System, as used by medics, just like you might use the phrases Sympathetic/Autonomic/Central/Peripheral Nervous System. We're talking a little psychology here and a large dollop of physiology, biomechanics and biochemistry.

The Limbic system, otherwise known as "The emotional brain" is a group of interconnected deep brain structures, common to all mammals, and involved in olfaction, emotion, motivation, behavior, pain and various autonomic functions.

It comprises the endocrine system and the autonomic nervous system. The limbic system is embryologically an older part of the brain and developed to manage 'fight' or 'flight' chemicals. It's an evolutionary necessity. It also influences the formation of memory by integrating emotional states with stored memories of physical sensations.

Here is a very nice extract from "The Brain Encyclopedia" by Carol Turkington.

The Limbic System

Far from being a state of consciousness divorced from the physical brain, a person's emotions are produced by chemicals exquisitely intertwined with the physiological processes of the body so that in the truest sense what affects the body affects the mind and emotions, and vice versa.

The center of emotions in the brain can be found in the limbic system where the vast panoply of emotions is regulated through the release of excitatory and inhibitory neurotransmitters: Pleasure may be linked with chemical signals produced by the release of noradrenalin, and pain is associated with many neurotransmitters. Mood appears to be linked with serotonin and dopamine.

In response to a variety of stimuli, emotions arise in the limbic system, travelling along neural pathways to the frontal lobes of the cortex, where feelings are monitored and interpreted. These two brain structures next influence the hypothalamus, which transmits the messages that trigger appropriate physical responses.

And the endocrine system, within the “emotional brain”, is one of the body’s main systems for communicating, controlling and coordinating the body’s work. It works with the nervous system, reproductive system, kidneys, gut, liver and fat to help maintain and control body energy levels, reproduction, growth and development, internal balance of body systems, called homeostasis - hormones etc, and responses to surroundings, stress, and injury.

OK, so that's the "emotional brain" and this research posted by Mike, says it is demonstrating a result with regards to that.

I think the originating Press Office at Northwestern University has "sexed it up" too much with that "Old memory" headline. That isn't what the researchers called it.

But anyway, I would like to know very much more about their experimental processes, especially about this “build-up” of memory because I have absolutely no idea what they can be meaning here, I can't find any research about it. This area of brain research - actually all brain research - is still very much in its infancy. As well as the limbic system, there are at least 25 other areas of the brain that are involved in pain, its transmission and ramifications, and further work is ongoing, so I'd like to know how they have unravelled it.

Also, an fMRI cannot show what's happening on the neuronal and micro level, so I can't see how they can categorically state what's happening in their experiment.

But anyhow, I have lots more to say about this – it’s absolutely fascinating, I think. I don't really care about the details, though - if it works, great! I'll take almost anything if it makes me feel better. lol! Though I won't hold my breath waiting, lots more work to be done there I reckon.

I'm just interested in the whole subject.....but this is faaaar to long, so enough. For now…

all the best!

Artist, thanks for a wonderful read. It was a very well written article, clear and concise.

I agree, there is much more I'd like to know. I, too, shall be quite interested when the full article comes out.

But on the flip side, lol... I also have had a hard time with dr.s & lawyers. I will never forget the work comp lawyer trying to get my hysterectomy put into the official records for the case. When I demanded (I was InProPer, handling my own case) to know why they were at all relevant, the idiot looked straight at the judge and said "Well, you know, the root word for that is "hyster"...and we all know that this woman is being quite hysterical about a minor injury. It may well be a hormone issue she is suffering from".

I assume this whole spiel might have worked on a different judge. But he failed to even really LOOK at the judge before he said any of this. We had been in the hearing for over an hour, I guess his observational skills were minimal, at best. SHE was a woman in her late 50's or early 60's, who was looking at him as if he had lost his frickin mind!

So it's easy to get touchy when someone mentions the emotional brain being involved, lol. Most of us, especially the women, have been through a LOT both during and after our diagnoses. Which I find to be a hoot, actually... go ahead, men... underestimate us! But you all can't even pass a kidney stone without freaking out... try a baby, for goodness sake!