I'm so glad to read that, Vicc...really. You are valuable, and I see your intent as good. I truly do. However, in letting something die then we lay it down. In other words, we move forward and away, yes?

Again, I'm glad. You have a good friend. Yes, I'm aware and I think you predict my responses/reactions inaccurately. If you want to discuss that more, PM me. I will say that I would not have accomodated with a ban. We rarely ban here...much more rarely is a active member completely banned. Again, if you want to discuss it more, my box is open.

First, of course you can respond to what Mike wrote. However, please remember that we're discussing communication and bettering it at this point. Also, we're not furthering the argument. So, in considering those, if you would like to respond with respect with what you disagree with, that's fine. He made an observation, and did so in a general tone, then followed it with a suggestion which would help in his opinion.

You asked, so I'm going to respond honestly. You said, "to talk about ALL of the flaws in his presentation". That is your perception or opinion. I'm not saying that mine is opposed to your's. I'm just stating a fact. Some might not see it as flawed; others might. So when posting in disagreement, stating such absolutes can feeling attacking or hurtful to the one to which you're responding. It can make one feel defensive, as it can have a personal tone. See?

On the rest of the quote, please read my post again, Vicc. I stated that he made *a* good point, not that I agreed with every word stated. I'm not saying I disagree either. I don't think that's for me to do. What is for me to do is to help members stay within the guidelines for all that use this forum and community. The point was...what has worked historically and what hasn't. I made my own post, with my own thoughts, from there.

You see, I don't know every detail of history and even if I did, my perception is not another's and I'm not about to dictate to others how they should perceive or comprehend written word. It is difficult to do with MANY variables that come into play in the online world. That's why I gave *my* perception from *my chair* and mixed it with my own suggestions based on my knowledge and experience...again, in moving forward.

I appreciate the fact that you're willing to let it die. I think it's so important to do at times. So many times we have to pick and choose our battles in daily survival or we can expend energy on things that can just sap more of it without really benefiting us in the end nearly to the degree that it's depleted us.

If you'd like to discuss anything on a "personal" level, please PM me. I was sick for a few days, but am feeling better now and pretty much full-force again.

I will again remind everyone, though, that we can continue the discussion in regards to communication and avoiding conflict, but not in regards to continuing a "side" in a debate or argument that has occurred...in moving forward as has been stated. Any such posts *will* be edited or removed in their entirety in caring for the members of the forum as a whole, and even those lurking or reading in hopes of finding a place of understanding, information and hope. I've been there. It hurts to think that in those nights I was searching in desperation, I might've hit a brick wall with a battle in a place where I sought respite.

Peace,

KD

You're a role model in your description of applying what you can and leaving the rest! Thank you for sharing that! So much can be learned even when we disagree. Again, thank you.

On a personal note, I'm sorry to read of your recent added struggle. You're in my thoughts.

I appreciate your post and participation.

KD

Hi again Kimmy,

I'm tired. I'm too damn tired to go back for another round. "Coach, throw in the towel".

You are absolutely right in saying: So many times we have to pick and choose our battles in daily survival or we can expend energy on things that can just sap more of it without really benefiting us in the end nearly to the degree that it's depleted us.

I won't be replying to Mike's post (or hopefully any other on this thread). I think I'll take a nap instead...Vic

(((((( Vic ))))))

You nap. Tomorrow is another day...another start.

You're valuable here. Move forward knowing that. Don't look back, but move forward knowing your intent is good...as is every member of this forum I believe.

If we would all *choose* to believe that same thing, it would always be a good thing. If we first say, "I know their intent is good, so am I reading this right?" it might help in communication.

Fresh starts are wonderful and I see alot of us making the best of them.

I think we all try to do that every day.

KD

i just wanted to say thank you to the admin folks. i joined this forum for a place that was absent of the judegement i feel on a daily basis, and while most of the information was interesting (i have learned over time to take bits and pieces i find interesting or worth further investingation) and ignore the rest. unfortunately when the discussion turned into an i am right you are wrong and to make me change my opinion you must supply a factual basis i felt like this might not be the place for me. up to this thread everything that has been dicussed has helped me to look beyond all of the things i have learned about rsd/crps and investigate the vast quantities of information all of the great members have to share.
honestly vic the first few posts of yours seemed so completely off when compared to everything my doctors have said, i thought i would avoid the confusion and skip every thread initiated by you. however after a few days of avoidence i was drawn back into your wealth of knowledge. some of the things you express are difficult to fathom and some cause me to shake my head and wonder what kind of meds he is on. after reading and rereading your posts i relized that the information you are sharing is probably not mentioned by my doctors because it doesnt fit in the mold the have incorporated. i have taken some notes and will be discussing them with both my pm doc and the nuero who did my scs. i think you information is wonderful in a number of ways. i just wanted to let you know that i would be more receptive to a thurough reading if it didnt feel like i was slumming through a verbal fist fight. please continue to submit your interesting view points, it would be a shame if someone who thinks so far beyond the box were absent. i don't mind if you add questions that will help to solidify or discard the information. you seem like a very intelligent person unfortunately sometimes when your explinations are so complex and the context appears so confrentational to those eho disagree i struggle to read the thread. i am a fighter (verbal and physical) and when someone throws out a challenge to the informattion i have had pounded into my head my firts reaction is to fire back, possibly with something relevent possibly with something completely off the wall just so you know i have read your thread and am struggling to find any applicable value. i guess my visits to the shrink that taught me to slow down snd think about my response before i blurt it out, and to rememberthe more riled up my comments the more rilied up the response i can expext to recieve. there reallly isnt anything whether differing opinions are expressed or whether or not factual data is supplied, if it is something that interests me i will look into myself.
from polar edges of the intellectual spectrum you both expressed opinions, they may have a solid foundation, they may be something someone read while they were waiting in line for their prescriptions to be filled at the pharmasist. the interesting information revieled from both authors wil send me online in search of information.
just because someone submits something you find misleading or wrong doesnt make them wrong it makes them interested in new information. i am intreged by the information you express so please when you find something you think is interesting contine to contribute it.
im not saying who was write or wrong. quite the opposite really. as someone who sat on the side lines i learned a great deal from one writer stating something and another one saying you are completely wrong. i reaaly enjoy the treads. i read them everyday snd honestly the last couple of days i havent logged in because i was affraid that i would be sucked into the vortex of the dissagreement and the increased stress would cause problems. i like coming here because it makes me feel better the two parties involved made me feel like this may in fact not be a place for me, however the note from the admin made me rethink and i have decided to remane a member of the group.
we wont a;ways get along but as long as we deal with the situation in the appropriate way things should be ok.
you are both amazing members of the group. with lots of great information to share. the negativities supplied seem to belong in a much more controverial based forum (what can we do to fix the environment, ;eft wing v. right wing.)
please keep up the great posting snd free yourself from the tension of conveying information we all have the right to interpret in our own way
thank you for making a great page where we can feel free from retribution to say the things we need to say in order to make the increased physical ailments shelved for another day

(((( wakegirl ))))

Thank you so much for your kind and honest post. Your sharing has shown us that conflict and upset can really affect so many more than just those involved, and I appreciate your honesty in sharing. I'm so glad you're here and are going to stay!

Differing opinions, and even respectful debates, can really show us so much, yes? But one important thing you said was (paraphrasing) having to get through the battle to find the good stuff. It's hard when feeling good...almost impossible when feeling badly, etc.

Thank you again so much for your perspective and honest views...stated in such a respectful way while showing both agreement and disagreement. The tone throughout remained the same even when showing disagreement. That tone was appreciation and care.

The work you've done on your own approach shined through.

Again, I'm glad you're here and staying. If you ever need, don't hesitate to PM.

KD

Hi wakegirl, you wrote:

honestly vic the first few posts of yours seemed so completely off when compared to everything my doctors have said, i thought i would avoid the confusion and skip every thread initiated by you. however after a few days of avoidence i was drawn back...some of the things you express are difficult to fathom and some cause me to shake my head and wonder what kind of meds he is on. after reading and rereading your posts i relized that the information you are sharing is probably not mentioned by my doctors because it doesnt fit in the mold the have incorporated.

To me, this means I have accomplished what I set out to do: Try to get someone to ask questions, not just accept what is said because a doctor is saying it. (They're usually right, but not always).

And about questions: some of the things you express are difficult to fathom

I know they are. I have tried and failed to teach people what ischemia reperfusion is, and couldn't do it in less than 3,000 to 4,000 words; and they were even more difficult. Now I try to make points that make people ask questions, and hope they will aim some of those questions at me.

I ask for questions. I beg for them. There are gaps, disconnects, in what I write, but that's because I am raising points, not delivering lectures designed to answer every possible question before it's asked.

Anyway, I think if you read my posts you'll see that I try to answer every question presented to me: even when all I can say is "I don't know".

Please, everyone, if you don't understand what I'm saying; if the dots aren't connecting; ask me....Vic