Mark, I know this is a day late and a dollar short, but I just HAD to respond. There are a couple types of these thistles that grow out on my pasture (you too Pooh?). The Milk Thistle is somewhat tame despite the sharp, spikey leaves. Check it out:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&p...z4F-Tg2gWGwaAm

HOWEVER, there is one called MUSK THISTLE and this plant had to have been born and created by satan himself!
These can grow to be 8-9 FEET tall. They are considered a noxious weed and in order to kill them, you have to get special permission from the county weed dep't to use the highly potent formula. They produce a purple flower that has thousands of seeds that float away like parachutes when they are mature (usually in June) My pasture was FULL of these things when I purchased the land. It was a nightmare to get rid of.

Here's what they look like:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&p...F4bL2QWqwK24CQ

There is a striking similarity, until you see them in person.

The milk thistle is not considered a noxious weed, as they don't grow to be nearly as tall. You certainly want to wear good buckskin workgloves tho.

Also on my land grows "snake root", which sells on the market as "Echinacea". My brother used to dig it up and sell it to company's who manufactured it.

OK OK, I see that this has steered this thread WAYYY off topic.
I guess I became posessed with a 'Show And Tell' saga....

I shut up now...
Rae

Rae even those these are bad don't they look pretty!!!! I'm a sucker for flowers. Funny how weeds can sometimes look far prettier than real flowers

Hope your keeping well

Jackie

shut up

oh please

don't ever shut up

Ive just been reading all te posts I missed over the last few days, I think with one or two exceptions most of us take the same meds, suffer memory loss, sleepless nights with nightmares and basically make us feel worse because they either don't work or the side effects are too much for our bodies to handle and I guess that's where originally I was coming from. The memory loss is rotten, that Cymbalta that I think helps, well it either does or it doesn't. The Lyrica changed me so much I stopped taking them against my Drs advice but I truly hated the side effects, I hate the weight gain, everything associated with them. Then sometimes the sciatica gets so bad I'll take some for a few days just to feel better, i sure do realise that this isn't a good idea but everyone of us here cope the best way we know how. Some of us get depressed, some of us just cry ourselves to sleep every night in sheer despair and some of us use humour, all human nature, all completely normal.

I think this has been a good thread so that we know we're not alone and sometimes we come up with helpful ideas like ugly plants with great properties for our livers that im gonna try.

Sorry Mark, regarding moving to Ireland.... No jobs.... No votes, the government will try to brain wash us anyway and the EU economy is going down a massive hole and we'll also wait to see what happens in Greece and France and the French are so ****** right now that the only country they listen too is the Irish because we've had our fair share of being ruled by another country that we swore it would never happen again, hence were the only country in Europe that have to vote in the changes. I have no idea yet how I'll vote in this treaty on 31 May. It's a tough one! Either way if anyone wants a Nevro I bet if you had the money it wouldn't matter where you come from.

Chat soon guys, keeping in touch,

Sinéad xxxx

While all you say is quite true, happinesss, etc., I think Doc might be referring to methods of treating pain... Meds and Stim. I guess, we can say happiness , not sleeping alone are all forms of dependency... and could possibly help our pain. But for most of us, we need a little more and for some of us; a stim is not the answer. Therefore, meds to treat pain can really be the only other choice. Just a thought.... now my vocabulary being tested, or is it my thoughts??? I question myself as well.

(Gerry)

Have to try to find up what's going on with my very good friends,here!

Give me a couple of days, tho', as feeling the after effects of vacation and not getting laundry, etc., done as fast as I'd hoped. But, it'll still be there in a few days...a lot smellier, tho'

I have learned the difference between Milk Thistle [abundant in Colorado, coulda been the state flower IMHO] and Musk Thistle---- thank you Rae, for we could all become dependent upon Milk Thistle as a means toward less dependence upon unnatural chemical substances formulated as laboratory created opiate substitutes. True, I was guilty once again of digression, as I pondered dependence in its full spectral and lexicon range. But then, if neither Rae nor I strayed who would ever "bring us back on course?" Uh Oh, now I have gone and posed a question of logic.

Well, Sinéad you have centered our vision upon the path. Meds it is. not weedy remedies.... it would be fun to run the etiology of Cymbalta as a word, since its root is Cymbal, widely known to be a musical percussion instrument. So we may not immigrate into Ireland....... but, I had thought to gain a toe hold before the Isle tips over or sinks due to its population.

Yup,
Mark56

I try to be specific about what I'm responding to, hence I quote just that relevant comment or phrase.


[ (RANT)] IMO, there are good legitimate reasons for choosing one therapy over another (and let's not limit this to just pain meds, but meds in general, because many other kinds of meds can produce dependence, and even addiction) and there are reasons that are not so good.

I believe that reasons of inefficacy, allergy, intolerable side effects, organ damage, and others - are good legitimate reasons.

I believe that reasons of - or motivated by - fear, guilt, stigmatization, coercion/intimidation, stereotyping, dis/mis-information, etc. are not good reasons, and just plain misguided. They are not based on science, logic, or good medicine.

I inferred (though I may be mistaken), from Mark's comment, that a part of his reason for choosing an SCS may have been due to stigmatization of being on meds. I don't object to his choice at all; I obviously don't/cannot know the whole story/picture behind his decision, but I support it regardless. It's the best choice for him. But IMO the remark unintentionally/unwittingly perpetuates that stigmatization and the perception that dependence, and hence medications that cause dependence, are somehow... "bad" (as well as suggesting that he has, unknowingly & unwillingly, bought into this fallacy.) I believe that, before his SCS, Mark too was a victim of that stigmatization, and that is what I concluded/deduced - right or wrong. This isn't Mark's doing/fault; it's the doing/fault of who/whatever caused him to be/feel "file labeled as medication dependent". I hate that he was made to feel that way.

Medication dependence is a side effect. To many, it's an acceptable one. Many, unless they are stigmatized and obsess over it, don't even think about it - it's no more than an inconvenience/nuisance. Should diabetics quit insulin because it causes dependence? Cuss, no - they don't give it a second thought, and neither does anyone else (nor should they)! Unfortunately, some bureaucrats in some societies (other societies do not view it this way) have decided they know what's best for everyone else, and that because certain medications are for pain, that makes them somehow "bad". This makes no logical/medical/scientific sense whatsoever, but those people often make choices/decisions based on things other than intelligence, logic, and common sense.

This is difficult for me because for speaking my mind, I am often construed/labeled as being pro-drug, when nothing could be further from the truth. I am anti-pain, and there is a HUGE difference. Pain patients go through enough pain and suffering without having more (fear, guilt, stigma, etc.) heaped on top of it.

It is not medications that I defend; it is the wrongful stigmatization and oppression of those who have no other choice/options that I rail against.

I had a conversation with my doctor just this week, about pain and addiction being medical issues rather than social issues that bureaucrats and insurance companies have no business sticking their noses into, and that they have been medical issues for (literally) thousands of years (until just the last century, and mostly just in this and a few other countries with oppressive bureaucracies). He said, "Wow, you're the only patient who's ever walked in here that actually knows that history."

I apologize for getting off on a rant here. We all have our buttons. Making suffering people afraid and suffer more is one of mine. (Again, not Mark's fault.) [/ (END RANT)]

Doc