Well, if you guys got mad at the teacher who did what SHE did, wait until you get a load of this story. It was in my local paper.

I googled it on the net, and they have a video. I bet we get lots of comments over this one. It's a bit different. This kid is 13, 6 feet tall and weighs 225 lbs. That's the description in my local paper. But you can see for yourselves in this video clip. It presents both sides.

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=97473&comments=1

Legally between the two cases.

A church is private property. A public school is not. (unless it is a private school)
(Now with the security issues schools face, there are many SAFETY rules about getting into one. But schools cannot
deny admission to children at the beginning of the school term--things are changing very quickly on school property as a result).

Did you know stores, etc on the street are NOT public property. A disruptive
person can be denied entrance or removed legally (I have done it...in my job at times with police support). Alot of people think Target, or Kroger's are public, but they are not.

The public library is however, is public, and ours for example has had a rash of people who come and LIVE there all day long during open times (non residents). They go on the computers, and tie them up, and residents cannot use them. Now there is a rule that a library card is needed as password to open the internet. Some were doing suspect "things" on the computer as well (using the public IP address to commit internet crimes)! It has been very touchy at our library. The DVDs have been stolen, and some very scruffy people hang out there now. We are a small suburb, pay high taxes for that library, and we are not a big city in a downtown area. But because we are public, all people can come in there, whether they are a drug dealer or not.
I personally don't sit and read there anymore. I go in and out fairly quickly.

What we have here are moral issues, vs legal issues.
We have parental sensitivity also.
Then we have the push by government to vaccinate newly born infants with enormous amounts of vaccines in a short period of time.
I think with time we will find that many autistic people were created this way (by human intervention),
and now they have become throw-away humans (many people don't want them in their
public lives at all).

I personally would not take this boy to church. I would be thinking of all the other people he comes in contact with, as well as his need for spiritual guidance. But if I were this devout, I would be asking the church pastor to have a shorter, separate service for the boy, and for others with disabilities.
Some neighbors and/or supportors could come also to the secondary service to lend support. This way this family could attend together. It could be a compromise.
But of course, it would be MORE work, for the pastor, who probably would deny this option.

There is no short answer to a problem like this which involves many people.
If these parents are trying to PROVE some point, they need to ask themselves what their real motive is as well.

My grandmother left the Catholic church during the depression, because of a very cruel priest who would not bury my grandfather (who suddenly died of appendicitis leaving 3 little girls and my grandmother with no income). This priest would not bury my grandfather because my grandmother did not have $25 to pay him(the Church). At the time my mother, the middle daughter, was 12 and in Children's Hospital with Rheumatic fever. (No penicillin in those days)...she was in the charity ward for 3 mons! So my grandmother left the church, disgusted with what the HUMANS were doing to her belief system. ( My grandfather worked in a Lincoln assembly plant after moving here for a
better job than the mines in Penn. were providing. My grandmother came here at 12 from Poland and had an 8th grade education max. There were no
auto unions then, no disability and certainly no health insurance. No social security either. My grandmother got a job cleaning offices in
a large downtown building..taking the bus for an hour each way.It was a very hard time. The girls had one dress EACH and washed and ironed it daily).

I grew up attending 3 different churches (Catholic, Episcopalian, Congregational), and over time when I became an adult I realized that for me, my beliefs could be taken care of personally. Many people live this way today.
This family could provide spiritual structure at home, I would think as well.
So I follow my own heart and the Christian philosophy myself.

There are no easy solutions to these complex problems today.
Deciding which church to go to, when, and where is a private decision.

Going to Kindergarten is a public rule and provided by the state. There is no mandate to attend church. But one would like to see churches be compassionate and flexible for people with disabilities, etc.

I completely agree with everything you said.

I wonder how the others are going to comment.

Very interesting topic.

I can almost see this woman's point of view. It goes along with the teachings of "love your neighbor," but it doesn't play out in real life - especially in a Catholic church. I'm referring to the quiet and structured nature of the mass ceremony itself - nothing against the religion. Heck, my best friend's mother kicked me out of their Catholic church when I was a kid. I kept turning around to watch who was producing all that pretty music. I didn't understand why they kept the choir in back.

I'm sure her neighbors have tried to be tolerant, but they also attend mass to have that communal quiet time with God. I think it is rude of this woman to expect all of her fellow parishioners to give her their designated time with God. It's not a classroom for her to be working with her son on how to behave in public.

I see no problem with her attending alone, then reporting back to her son what she learned that day. She can also find plenty of videotapes/DVDs, Bibles and other reading material on the subject to work with him at home.

I've been following this from the start. The church is not against them because the boy has autism. He does have limited verbal skills and as you know, autism is more severe in some people. This is a big boy at 6 feet tall and he weighs more than 225 pounds.

The church has been trying to work with them and find "reasonable accommodations." That included the church offering them a video feed of Mass that could be watched in the church basement. I understand the family has refused all suggestions.

The boy has pulled a 13 year old girl on top of him (I believe she was 13). But the mother says that is due to him needing something on him at times. He has hit a child, has nearly knocked over elderly parishioners while he was bolting from his pew. He has spit at people and he has urinated in the church. The mother denies this.

He is prone to anxiety attacks and so during some of those outbursts the members of his family sit on him to calm him down or restrain his hands and feet with a strip of felt. The mother just wants other people to understand autism.

Personally, whichever church this would be in, I would not feel safe nor comfortable at all. I believe the mother is going to fight this herself in court. Just my thoughts.

I wouldn't feel safe either. He's a big and strong boy. Not that he's dangerous in a "monster" sense, but that accidents can happen. I've never been in her church, but I've been in plenty of them. Every one of them had several frail elderly people.

Would that woman be able to live with herself if her son accidentally knocked over an elder, causing severe harm or even death? What lesson about Autism would she be teaching the congregation?

I think this Mom is trying to raise awareness of autism but this isn't the way to go about it in my opinion.

She is putting not only the other members of this church in danger but also her son.

The church has been sympathetic and offered accommodations to this family but they have refused. I don't understand why because I don't think you have to sit in a pew in order to "go to church". I'm pretty sure God understands why some of us don't or can't go.

I haven't done anything but read the article about this so I'm sure I don't know the whole story.

I wonder what might happen if she defies the restraining order and decides to take him to church next Sunday???

Will the church people have her arrested?? And what happens to the boy? He goes to foster care??

Holy Moly, she is opening up a big can of worms here. And she might want everybody to be aware of autism, but this venue is NOT THE PLACE TO DO THIS.

Church is a place of worship. People want peace and quiet. Not some out of control 13 year old who pulls people on top of him. I believe she should have taken the suggestion of the live video feed. That sounds very accomodating.

She was cited for attending church on May 11th in violation of the restraining order. She faces a hearing I think this past Monday. She plans to defend herself, without a lawyer, in court. I have no idea who called the police. I know at the beginning the police were there to arrest her if she violated the order. Perhaps May 11th was when that happened I would guess.

The boy is one of five children they have. A very sad situation for all but church is not a place to do this. Imagine how big and unruly he will continue to get. Sad situation.

I gather she decided long ago to care for him herself and not find a placement for him. I commend people who have the tenacity to do this. But they don't figure on one thing. These little kids grow up to be bigger kids and then grow up to be adults. I have a friend who works as an attendant in a day facility. She takes care of ALL the autistics and some are in their 70's. They have long been abandoned by their relatives because no one had the patience (or the money) to care for them. They never got better. They are all medicated.

Very sad indeed.

I do hope that someday, they find a drug or a med that interrupts the brain re-wiring so that these people can someday function. I know that some are HIGH functioning, I know this. I'm not talking about these. I'm talking about the completely non-verbal ones who are lost in their own world.

The numbers are growing.

Someone better check out what's in those vaccines. I shudder to think at the future of mankind if these numbers continue to grow exponentially.