hi, would greatly appreciate any opinions about the law firm i hired to do my application.

i'm a 59 year old male, had a 1 person company for 20years where i installed pharmacy computer systems into retail pharmacies, did everything from installing, maintaining computers and writing the software.
was diagnosed in 2001 with parkinson's. stopped working in 2011 and applied for SSDI Nov1, 2013 and got a rejection on DEC 4th.
SS stated "The objective medical evidence prior to the date you were last insured for SS disability benefits on DEC 31,2012 is not sufficient to fully assess your potential work related limitations and abilitites. Therefore, a period of disability cannot be determined.

I can understand why SS determined this based on my application. I rarely see my neuro, exams are just a short visit and no formal testing, just a formality to get my RX refills authorized. When medicated, to the untrained eye I don't appear to have pd, medication works well. Unmedicated I have major pd symptoms, freezing so I take baby steps and halt, fatique, stuttering, disabled to the point that I just lay or sit down.

Anyway, I thought I might have a difficult time proving disability because I didn't have a clear record of progression on my medical records because my neuro always saw me medicated, my customers rarely saw me, I didn't allow friends to see me unmedicated and I live alone. Thus I hired a law firm to do the application and brought these issues up and they really didn't give me any odds on whether I'd get SSDI but I hired them anyway because they were recommended and I knew I couldn't do this application on my own. I went to their offices, brought them a detailed writeup of my history and concerns, medical records proving I was diagnosed 12 years ago. I had also visited my neuro and GP just prior to hiring the law firm to let them know i was filing for SSDI and they both said they would try to help the best they could. At the visit the paralegal asked me if i wanted to file right now and we did over the internet. She didn't care to see what my full medical records looked like or talk to my doctors to see what they had written, I assume she expected my initial application to be rejected so why work that hard?

So anyway, the law firm is filing an appeal. They sent me a list of questions to answer which I had already answered. It seems obvious to me I need to be examined more fully and unmedicated and have brought this up with the paralegal, will SSDI have me independently examined and she says she can't guarantee this. I'm getting a little worried here about how blase this legal firm is, maybe they don't get serious until there is a trial? Maybe they want to drag this out and get a bigger fee? I'm afraid to start complaining but I'm feeling like a number with these guys, any advice? I would think it would be hard to fire them but something seems weird here, so far they've filed the initial application, took about an hour in their officer to file on line while i was there and they emailed me a list of questions to answer after the rejection. i have sent them 2 emails subsequently asking questions about their questions and no response days later.

I'm thinking they just don't think I'll get approved until I go to trial so why put in that much effort until then or maybe they are just increasing their fee, i can understand that. But I also can't believe SSDI wouldn't approve someone who is clearly unable to work when unmedicated and 12 years after a pd diagnosis, who in the world would hire me at almost 60?

Any advice on dealing with this large local firm, dont want to alienate them and whether I should take the bull by the horns and schedule my own evaluation with another neurological organization that would do a more comprehensive evaluation?

Dear Soccortese,

I understand your concerns. As far as your representation,....... I too, thought there would be more involvement and interaction between atty and client. I have since learned that the common practice is to just gather info and then about a week or two before an ALJ hearing, the atty will review your file, maybe meet with you to discuss the soon to be held hearing, and the rest of the time, they just wait. This is common practice, not just YOUR representative. Most work exactly the same way. Wish I had known that up front as I would have had different expectations and less disappointment.

Another common practice is not to second guess SS and offer an opinion. If they do and things don't work out as projected, we would be on their case. Most attys will not take a case they feel has NO chance of winning as they are not going to devote any time to something that will not generate any income for them. They are paid out of your award benefits up to a maximum of $6000. The only items you will have to pay "out of pocket" will be for fees for obtaining medical records, postage, etc. Some attys charge the client for travel expenses to a hearing (gas), parking, etc. You were probably given a fee agreement to sign which is submitted to SS for their approval. It usually indicates the percentage of award benefits that will be paid to your atty and stipulates the max of $6000 from your benefits.

During your wait in the appeal process, your atty may obtain medical source statements from your treating physicians. Having your docs know that you have applied and that they are in agreement to assist you is extremely helpful.

One word of caution is terminology. Be sure you understand the terminology that is being used as there is much confusion over it.

There are many here with extensive info on disability that will be coming to your aid.

Good luck to you. I will be keeping an eye on your thread to see if there is anything I can offer in way of assistance.

Your biggest problem is your date last insured for SSDI. Since it is 12/31/12, that means that between 1/1/03 and 12/31/12, you only have 20 credits out of a possible 40 which means you have years of no work or years of work with no profit. So the first question is how did you work for 20 years in your own business and not have significant profit in at more than 5 years of the last 10? Did you not filing tax returns when you should have? Did your condition reduce your hours? I am also curious about why you waited two years before filing your claim?

Getting a thorough examination in 2014 will not help prove that you were disabled enough by 12/31/12. It is the medical evidence from 2012 or earlier (which you say is minimal) that is important. If your attorney is not addressing this issue (whether now or at the hearing level), then you have no chance of qualifying for SSDI and the only disability program is available would be SSI, the low income program. SSI would use current medical evidence but you don't mention filing an SSI claim or what your current income is.

In my opinion, your attorney's office should be discussing your medical evidence from 2012 and earlier and asking the questions about why your date last insured (12/31/12) is in the past.

If SSA decides that you are disabled but not before 12/31/12, it is like having a car accident after your insurance lapsed - nothing will be paid from SSDI. This should all be addressed NOW and if your attorney won't do it, you need another.

you hit the nail on the head and this is an issue i have been trying to discuss with the attorney. i filed my 2008-2011 IRS returns in early 2013, actually got a small refund. unfortunately, the IRS was way behind in reporting my numbers to SS, didn't realize this and didn't notice until october 2013. at that point, brought IRS transcripts of my returns to the local SS office and asked them to record them. a week later i got my returns back in the mail from SS and on them was a handwritten note saying "you are disability insured with your alleged onset onset as 10/011/2011".

This was very puzzling and am waiting to talk to paralegal to find out if that's the date on my application. Anyway, SS rejected my 2008-2010 IRS returns as being filed too late. I had enough income in 2001 thru 2009 in each year to get credits but obviously not enough in last 5 years. So may be even more hopeless.
No excuse for not filing except had very complicated schedule-D's, i'll blame it on my parkinson's. I didn't file for SSDI in 2012 out of ignorance. I brought up the late tax filings at the first meeting with the attorneys, actually gave them copies of my returns thinking they wouldn't take the case without evidence that i had filed them. paralegal didn't say this would be a problem.

I called the the SS office that handled my SSDI application and discussed if there was anyway to get the 2008-2010 wages accepted by SS, they actually connected me to the examiner that handled my SSDI app and she said no but did give me a $$ amount that I was eligible for if I can prove that 10/01/2011 disable date. She asked me about the 2008-2010 wages but then kept correcting herself, saying they can't accept them.

Thanks for your reply, I need all the help I can get, thought hiring a lawyer on contingency would make things clear cut.

Dear Soccertese,

About your TAX returns. There is a statute of limitations on getting any refunds due you and it is 3 years. However, if you OWE, there is no limit of time. You would be required to pay any and all taxes for any and all years late. Even if you did not owe FEDERAL INCOME TAX, if you earned a net of over $400 in self-employment, you would still owe Social Security and Medicare tax on it.

Are you saying that you had less than $400 net income from your self-employment during the years that you were late filing your returns?

It is very surprising for a disability law firm to accept any claimant that did not meet the eligibility requirements of being insured under the Social Security system.

It is situations where DLI (Date last insured) and Date of Onset create problems with qualifying for eligibility and some decisions must be made as to which dates to use as the date of onset.

As far as "accepting" your tax return information. If you PAID Social Security taxes, it is my belief that the returns MUST be accepted if filed. Your payments may not simply be ignored. As far as the IRS, they do not have to provide any "refunds" on returns filed beyond 3 years after they are due. Any refunds due you are forfeited.

Hopeless

all my income was via a sole proprietor business and on a SE form. btw, thanks for your responses, always amazed at the kindness of strangers on these boards!
i didn't file 2008,2009,2010,2011 returns until 2013 but actually overpaid my estimated taxes in each year they were due which was all 4 years so there was no penalty, SOCIAL SECURITY still wouldn't accept the wages i earned in any of those years except 2011. I had filed late returns before, always paid enough taxes but they were all within 3 years so i guess having filed late returns before made me think it was no big deal since i had paid the taxes on time.
as an aside, i found out from IRS that it takes 12 months now to get their numbers over to SS if you file a late return. dealing with the IRS over these late returns was a nightmare, admittedly my fault for filing so late. they sent me a letter stating i owed quite a bit of money based on stock sales from my 1099'S. Since i hadn't filed a SCHEDULE-D stating the cost basis of my stocks, they assumed 100% profit on each trade. This got my attention to say the least. To make a long story short, i had a deadline to get my returns to them which turned out to be 30 days. I sent my returns to them certified mail and go proof of receipt. called them a week later, they had no record of receiving the returns. called 2 weeks, no returns, was told it could take 6 weeks to register them, past the 30days. i was told not to worry, as long as they received them on time i had nothing to worry about. talk about something to worry about. i actually took copies down to the local IRS office and asked them to stamp one to send to their FRESNO office and stamp one for me to keep so i could prove they got them within 30 days. so they got them in time. you never talk to the same person twice and get different answers. lesson here is get your returns in on time.

Do not beat yourself up on being late. Believe me, you are not the first person to be late filing returns. I had someone come to me with 10 years to file. It is sad when the tax client losses their rightful refunds when late and the usual reason is because the tax laws are so complicated that it becomes too overwhelming for the taxpayer and the returns get put on hold. I have found that the self-employed are usually the ones that are late more often than others. For one reason, they are so busy trying to earn a living that often the bookkeeping is postponed, then trying to put it all together combined with complicated tax laws is so time consuming that they postpone it while they attempt to earn a living. Next thing, a year has passed, then you have to file the OLD year before you can file the new one due and the cycle begins. It is when they, like you, get those IRS notices, that they knock on my door begging for assistance.

If you PAID self-employment taxes and have your SE schedules to prove it, I really believe that SSA will have to accept your earnings and give you the credits you earned. It may take some time for the record to be updated.

I am much more versed in tax laws and regulations than SS, so I will look into it, but I really do not think your earnings can be ignored if you paid self-employment taxes on them. It may just be a matter of getting it into the record.

One other concern is the "amount" of your earnings. Were they enough to earn the full 4 credits each year? Even if they were low earnings, you may have earned 3 credits for a particular year. Every credit earned toward the requirements counts. I am not asking for your earnings. I would not want you to disclose that kind of information on an open forum.

And yes, I have often seen IRS use 100% basis since they do not have a return to indicate otherwise, all they know is what is on 1099 B.

If I can be of any help, just let me know. Best of luck to you. You may not get your refunds but I do think you should be entitled to an updated SSA record of earnings. It may just be a matter of time getting them into your record. You may meet the eligibility requirements once that is done. You can look at your returns and calculate it for yourself and see if you will be eligible to continue with your disability claim.

Are you still attempting any work with a reduction of hours due to your impairment? Other posters are correct that you are not considered disabled if you are capable of "gainful" work when medicated. If medication precludes your ability to work, and your work can not be accomplished if not on the medication, then you may be considered a candidate for disability.

I have known SSA to go back 30 years for missing income when computing disability benefits if they think the earnings record is missing any earned income. Many women in the workforce may have no earnings for one year on their SSA earnings record when they took off for having a child. SSA will ask them if NO earnings for a long ago year is accurate in order to properly calculate their disability benefits.

As promised I looked it up and there IS a similar stipulation in SSA regs. In order to have your earned credits applied, they must be reported within 3 years, 3 months, and 15 days. This was news to me and I am sorry if my prior post misled you. I knew about the tax law but not about the SSA reg.

Hopeless

thanks,
that reg came to my attention after i brought my 2008,2009,2010,2011,2012 returns to my local SS office and asked them to post my SSA wages. they mailed them back a week later, i logged into my SS account and saw only my 2011 earnings had been recorded, called the local office and the explained the rule to me, no exceptions.

thanks for your help, ball is in my lawyers court.

Just researched it and the SSA does have regs that preclude the use of earned credits if not reported timely. You have 3 years, 3 months, and 15 days for your credits earned to be applied.