No fairsies posting while I'm still typing !

I was hoping that you would post. You and Janke were in my "more knowledgeable posters" group that I thought would know the full facts on this.

I didn't know that it was ever "okay" for a lawyer to charge more. Do you happen to know if the SSA specifies how much more can be charged, if there is another cap ? Or have a specific link to the applicable details from the SSA ? I should have looked myself for Rrae, but my brain fog is winning the battle today.

There are a couple of instances where they can request higher fees. If you fire them and hire new counsel is one. And in the instances of state or federal court.

Here is an example of a fee agreement and as you can see they do allow exceptions.
http://www.ssa.gov/representation/mo...guage.htm#sb=3

If a person's case proceeds to the Appeal's Council or Federal Court level, it is not uncommon for attorneys to simply drop their clients, particularly at the Federal Court level where you really NEED an attorney.


When you read a link like this: http://www.disabilitysecrets.com/question16.html
they avoid the exceptions, so it's no surprise that the situation's confusing. And honestly, I'd link to that page and not explain the exceptions in most cases. --While I know attorney's can ask for higher fees at the Appeal's Council stage they won't necessarily from my understanding, and they do have to justify their time. --I was under the impression the higher fees are a given at the Federal Court stage. Also, if an error at the ALJ level is not readily apparent and someone has to go through an audio file of a hearing or a transcript hunting it could ending up being a major project though, so the exception option would make sense. I would think an attorney would be able to let you know before moving forward how complicated such an appeal would be--and the more difficult, the more they can justify extra fees. A beneficiary can always contest their attorney's fees, btw. (One of the regular poster's on this forum did just that successfully--maybe left handed or ms. migraine?)

Remember it is also a common tactic of ALJ's to agree to a Fully Favorable decision if the applicant agrees to a later Alleged Onset Date. Since the vast majority of successful appeal's are simply remands, the attorneys often end up with reduced fees that way as well.

My personal feeling is that the SS fee agreement policy encourages attorneys to lengthen the process to collect their max fees. It's also become pretty common for people to say, "You won't be approved until you get before a judge." As Janke points out, about 30% of claimants are approved at the first stage. If a person does the minimum with the expectation their attorney can only win benefits for them, they'll be on the path to a long and frustrating experience. I often encourage people to explore non attorney representation because if you can find a good one, they often seem to be willing to work harder and earlier in the process.

what am i wood?

Thank you all for your input and the links. It really did help and I appreciate it.

To answer a couple Q's that were asked...
Finz asked: In another post you mentioned you were thinking this will be your lawyer. What about him made you feel comfortable and confident with his abilities ? Did you get to talk about your concerns about the extra fees being standard ?

I felt comfortable with him from the very beginning, when he took a good amount of time to answer my Q's and explain some things. We've been emailing back and forth regarding negotiations on his contract and he's willing to change or drop a couple of clauses to fit my particular situation.
Regarding his fee agreement, he did say that the $6000 limit does get dropped if we lose the ALJ hearing and have to go to Appeals Council. If we are granted a new hearing and win, then this is where he collects 25% of backpay with no limits. He didn't mention anything about going as far as the federal court, so I'm not sure on that.

Echoes stated:

im sure the lawyer is referring to 25% of everything if in the event you lose at the alj level, appeal to the appeals council or federal court and get another hearing ordered. its not 25% of everything for the initial alj hearing only if you lose the initial hearing and then appeal and then eventually get awarded.

That's exactly right. Pretty much word for word of how it is stated in his contract (minus any mention of fed court).

thanks again for the great input.

Rae

Hi Rrae,

I do not know if I am allowed to post this information, so first, I am asking the moderators to review it and remove if necessary.

I looked up the actual rulings regarding attorney fees in the past and did so once again to help answer your question. Attorney is allowed something called a two-tiered fee which has different fee for services rendered at various levels.

More general information regarding fees can be found in the SSA regulations. I am posting or attempting to post a link that may be of help to you.

Link did not work - Sorry

This may or may not work. Not good at posting a link.

Below is a direct quote copy and paste from SSA-1560-U4
TOE 850
OMB No. 0960-0104
http//policy.ssa

I am hoping that the above quote is OK and not copyright infringement since I stated the exact place of origin and did not make any alterations. Direct copy and paste.

To the moderators, please remove and fix for me if I have done anything improper here.

Thank you.

I believe that there is still a max of 25% of benefits plus costs if appealed to Federal court. The cap of $6000 does not exist at the Federal court appeal level from what I have researched. I would post the link but the 2 tries I made of posting links has not worked for me. Remember, I am not computer savvy. The links show but do not work. Not sure what I am doing wrong so I did not try this time.

Thank you Hopeless! That is great information. So I'm seeing that there are a great deal of varying factors when it comes to reimbursing a representative/attorney.
Thank you so much for finding those links

Re: posting links - the easiest way I do it is to right-click on the address bar up top (http://yaddayadda.com) when you are on the website. When you right click on it, it will turn blue and you'll get a dropdown box with options. Click on the 'copy'. Then go to the post that you want to add that link and right click again. You'll see the same box of options. Just click on 'paste' and there you have it!
Hope that helps?

I appreciate you!
Rae

I am so glad to hear you are comfortable with your attorney and that he is willing to make adjustments and is open to communicating with you. Do not hesitate to contact him via email or phone when you have questions. That is a part of his responsibility to you and he will be compensated for it if you are approved. Some attorneys do not like to put too much effort into a claim because their efforts may go uncompensated should the client/claimant be denied. On the other hand, some will put forth a lot of effort to ensure the best possible presentation for approval and therefore, compensation to them.

Bottom line, their fee is worth it, if you need assistance to get through the process. There are literally volumes of rules and regulations, so having someone that knows them is definitely an asset to one going through the process. Unfortunately, minor mistakes without the assistance of an attorney can make or break a claim. 25% is a lot to pay for assistance, but one it costs you nothing if you are not approved, and two, is much better to forsake 25% than to lose everything for a mistake that an attorney could remedy. That is not to say that some that go it alone do not get approved and get 100%. That is a decision that each claimant must make for themselves. It takes a lot of time and effort to go it alone and most are not well enough to devote the time and effort. Sometimes we need help.

It is imperative to have a good relationship with your attorney in my opinion. It also sounds like his fees are standard. Wishing you the very best.

In my opinion, attorneys get better results than claimants when attempting to obtain information from SSA. I made numerous requests for my file from SSA and got no where. When I obtained an attorney, he got the file the same day. Attorneys know "how" to get things done that claimants struggle to obtain. It is not that they have "pull", they just have knowledge and are able to navigate the system much better. (And I am not a fan of attorneys. Have had too many BAD experiences with them.)

Thanks to you for all the help YOU provide to the members on NT. Hope we can give some back to you.

Hopeless

Hi, I'm sorry I'm not able to ascertain if you are just starting the initial application? If this is the first application you are filing, it really is best to to it without a lawyer.

...actually many reputable lawyers won't take on the case unless you are past the initial application stage. I was approved in about 6 months, no lawyer, no appeals.

It could save you a lot of money.

I'm sorry if i missed something that mentioned this.

lol, but such a glorious tree !

I said they were both in the group, not that they were the WHOLE group.

I wouldn't have wanted to inadvertently leave anyone out if I tried to list all the smarty pants ......and I didn't want to name names and have someone then EXPECT everyone to post. You are DEFINITELY on my list !