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Old 11-02-2012, 09:41 PM #1
tdouglas tdouglas is offline
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Default Please help me understand my MRI report

I'm scheduled to see a doctor about this report next week, but I'd like to know what it means beforehand. Here is the info:

FINDINGS:

There is mild retrolisthesis of L4 on L5. There is disc desiccation, height loss, and an annular fissure at L4-L5.

L1-L4: Everything is normal except that there is mild bilateral facet arthropathy in all of these discs.

L4-L5: There is a disc bulge with superimposed central disc extrusion. There is mild bilateral facet arthropathy. There is no neural foraminal narrowing. There is severe central canal stenosis.

IMPRESSION:
Severe degenerative disc disease at L4-L5 with milder degenerative changes in the remainder of the lumbar spine as described in detail above.

Degenerative disc disease is a pretty broad term, so I'm not exactly sure what's wrong or what I'm looking at in regards to treatment options. Any sort of help on any of these terms would be highly appreciated.
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:04 AM #2
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Here is some additional information:

I first injured my back over a year ago when I was 21 by attempting to lift something I shouldn't have, so the degeneration isn't age-related. I have some pretty bad lower back pain and stiffness. It's a constant pain that only gets relieved when I lay down, and even that relief is starting to go away. Whenever I lift my right leg or move it around at all (as in walking, etc), there is pain in my back, but I'm not sure if it's sciatica or not. It's hard for me to tell.

I've been told to do stretches and exercises for months, but I haven't felt any relief from those things.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:15 AM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdouglas View Post
I first injured my back over a year ago when I was 21 by attempting to lift something I shouldn't have, so the degeneration isn't age-related.
Well... no, and yes. DDD is a result of osteoarthritis. Arthropathy is also a form of arthritis. While generally associated with aging, arthritis can occur earlier in some individuals. Lifting whatever it was may not have caused the injury, but exacerbated it -- the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

Physical therapy is probably still your best bet, though you may get better results with a different (better) therapist.

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Old 11-03-2012, 04:29 AM #4
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Well... no, and yes. DDD is a result of osteoarthritis. is also a form of arthritis. While generally associated with aging, arthritis can occur earlier in some individuals. Lifting whatever it was may not have caused the injury, but exacerbated it -- the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

Physical therapy is probably still your best bet, though you may get better results with a different (better) therapist.

Doc
Thank you for your response. I have had knee pain (while bending the knees and particularly when squatting down or walking down/up stairs) for years, and my hands are always sore, too. I never considered arthritis, but that does make sense. So the mild bilateral facet arthropathy that is present in every disc is a sign of arthritis?

I don't know too much about arthritis. The degeneration of discs and the arthropathy can't be stopped, right? If so, that's sort of worrying, especially since I'm only 22 and already hurting pretty bad.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:05 AM #5
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news but "severe central stenosis" is not a good thing. From the report it states that there is a central superimposed disc herniation that is causing this condition. Many people with the same exact condition have different symptoms. In the low back there isn't a singular cord as it is in the upper back. It actually spreads like a horses tail, hence the name cauda equina. Dependent upon which of those nerves are being depressed it will vary from symptoms. I have a very similar finding at multiple levels and I have not undergone surgery, even tho they are adamant about it. My legs hurt all the time regardless of position. I told them they could operate when I could no longer hold my bowels or bladder. I have had multiple neck surgeries so a low back one isn't something I look forward too lol. Best of Luck!
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:54 PM #6
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DDD is actually the drying out of discs, and everyone gets it. It not necessarily the result of osteoarthritis. You can have DDD at a very young age, and not have osteoarthritis. The discs dry out and then they tend to flatten, causing them to touch nerves & cause pain. They can even herniate. Also when the discs flatten, this causes the vertebra to "fall" closer together, so the disc space is narrowed.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:12 PM #7
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Default Hi tdouglas

I am going to agree with gator head. If a MRI says the words "SEVERE" that can often indicate a situation you need another opinion for. don't do any surgery until you get this second opinion. Narrowing of the cord, is what causes much of your leg pain. Make sure if you decide on invasive proceedures, that the verterbre above and below the site to be worked on, are strong enough for the hardware they will put in. This is something I did not question, and I wound up with a second unwanted, painful but fairly successful sugery. I do wish you all the best. You will find support no matter what direction you go in right here. ginnie
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:55 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorhead View Post
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but "severe central stenosis" is not a good thing. From the report it states that there is a central superimposed disc herniation that is causing this condition. Many people with the same exact condition have different symptoms. In the low back there isn't a singular cord as it is in the upper back. It actually spreads like a horses tail, hence the name cauda equina. Dependent upon which of those nerves are being depressed it will vary from symptoms. I have a very similar finding at multiple levels and I have not undergone surgery, even tho they are adamant about it. My legs hurt all the time regardless of position. I told them they could operate when I could no longer hold my bowels or bladder. I have had multiple neck surgeries so a low back one isn't something I look forward too lol. Best of Luck!
Thanks for your take on it. I don't have pain that runs down my leg, but the pain in my back gets bad whenever I move my right leg around in any direction. I'm not looking forward to surgery either, but I'm just now beginning to talk to doctors about the problem, so hopefully we can figure something out.
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:58 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginnie View Post
I am going to agree with gator head. If a MRI says the words "SEVERE" that can often indicate a situation you need another opinion for. don't do any surgery until you get this second opinion. Narrowing of the cord, is what causes much of your leg pain. Make sure if you decide on invasive proceedures, that the verterbre above and below the site to be worked on, are strong enough for the hardware they will put in. This is something I did not question, and I wound up with a second unwanted, painful but fairly successful sugery. I do wish you all the best. You will find support no matter what direction you go in right here. ginnie
Thanks for the info and support. I really appreciate it. The word "severe" does freak me out a bit. I'm hoping physical therapy will help alleviate my pain, but I'm not too confident in that.

Do you guys think I should be worried about the arthropathy that is present in my L1-L5 discs?
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:49 AM #10
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Default Hi tdouglas

The biggest" issue", are the ones that state Severe. However, if surgery gets to be the option you need, those verterbre need to be in good condition. So write this question down at the top of your list to ask the neurologist. Get details from him, let no question go unanswered. For the best results, and confidence, you need all the truth in detail, and real dicussion with your doctor. It will be OK, even if you have to have the surgery. None of it is fun, but a life in pain isn't either. I had a good outcome with my surgery, so I know for sure, that this is possible. I would hesitate on alot of PT at this point, until you get more information. Not all PT works for spinal issues. I did this, and it made my condition worse. If it hurts Stop. Ask your doctor OK?
Keep us posted. All of us who have had spinal fussions or back issues do care about you. Hope you have some good support there at home too. Keep us posted. ginnie
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