Hi All,
Looking for some out of the money box thinking. I have the MRI on disc with a cool reader so I can see everything. Also have this report:

1. Broad based disc bulges are noted at T7-T8 and T8-T9 causing complete effacement of ventral CSF spaces and neural foraminal narrowing. (in other words there is no space for my nerves that enter the spinal cord – MUCH pain!)
2. C2-C3 Mild broad based disc bulge with left uncovertebral and facet joint hypertrophy, causing mild impression on the ventral CSF space and mild to moderate left foraminal narrowing
3. C3-C4 Mild broad based disc bulge with bilateral uncovertebral and facet joint hypertrophy, causing mild impression on the ventral CSF space and mild to moderate bilateral foraminal narrowing
4. C4-C5 No significant disc bulge or canal narrowing. Bilateral uncovertebral and facet joint hypertrophy, causing mild bilateral foraminal narrowing.
5. C5-C6 Broad based disc bulge with bilateral uncovertebral and facet joint hypertrophy, causing near-complete effacement of the ventral CSF space and mild right and moderate to severe left foraminal narrowing
6. C6-C7 C6 Broad based disc bulge with bilateral uncovertebral and facet joint hypertrophy, causing near-complete effacement of the ventral CSF space and mild right and moderate to severe left foraminal narrowing
7. C7-T1 No significant disc bulge, canal, or foraminal narrowing.
IMPRESSION
1. Chronic type 1 fracture of the dens with posterior translation on extension views. There is encephalomalacia within the spinal cord at the level of the fracture.
2. Multilevel degenerative changes as described above. (All they looked at was the cervical and thorastic areas, told me my lumbar was worse, I have bone that touches bone on occasion and boy does that hurt. I had two discectomy, 15 years apart, on the same L2-S1 or L1-S2, I can't remember but definitely feel it)

FINDINGS
There is a likely chronic type 1 fracture of the dens, with an increased T2 signal between the two fracture fragments, likely representing nonunion. There is a posterior translation of the distal fragment on the extension views, which measures approximately 5 mm. There is increased T2 signal, with atrophy of the spinal cord within this region, likely representing myelomalacia. The cerebellar tonsils are well located.

*** Doctor refused ANY pain meds except AFTER surgery. He said that the surgery, IF SUCCESSFUL, would remove 40-60% of my head movement. There is an artery in the way where they have to drill and insert screws. If the artery becomes damaged, it would have to be sealed off causing paralysis and or death. Gave me a neck brace for 300 dollars and told me I need to get the surgery as soon as possible. He said he didn’t care who did it…”…either I can do it or Dr. Parker can”. SO, basically, Good luck, good riddens, and he left the room with me shaking and my wife visually upset. He is a *** that I wouldn’t let cut my toe nails. No compassion, no bedside manner, nothing admirable or special about him…obviously in it for the money….PERIOD!
A man with a broken neck and screwed up back CAN’T get a ** pain pill from a doctor that KNOWS the man is in pain! I SAY **! I am livid about the whole situation and wished I never opened this can of worms. I am only 52…what the heck is my next 10 or 20 years going to be like?
These doctors would prefer you to drink massive amounts of alcohol and buy illegal prescription drugs than to legally prescribe something for a person with PROOF they are in unusual amounts of pain. No wonder the 50 something age group has the HIGHEST percentage of suicides! I haven’t looked at any other options. This Dr. John Johnson pretty much squashed my hopes and desire to proceed with ANY corrective procedure. All I see for myself is a lot of drinking accompanied by anything else that will kill the pain.

SURELY with technology the way it is there is a titanium something that can be SAFELY installed and removed after the cadaver bone stitches. Trying to drill a hole UNDER an artery IS NOT AN OPTION! I am fully mobile now, I simply suffer much pain and sleepless nights. I drink every night to feel better and ......

I don't know how it got broken. I think we were abused as children because my sister, who is now in a wheelchair, had a mysterious broken neck that was not found until she simply couldn't walk anymore. They then found the broken neck which had pinched off her brain stem so long that she is now paralyzed. Our mother committed suicide in 1973 and our father's may as well be dead.

Tell me about my spinal cord bruise please. Please tell me about any other possible options. Please tell me a facility or doctor that ISN'T in it for the money or prestige, that actually WANTS to make a person feel better and enjoy at least a small piece of life.

Just found this forum. Never was one to much read or follow the rules...just warn me and don't kick me out. Obviously I don't have a hugely good regard for doctors that don't care an iota about the Hippocratic Oath....refusing to provide relief within the abilities of the doctor is prescribing to having the patient put themselves in harm's way to obtain that relief from non-medical personnel.
They should be disbarred, or whatever they do to a doctor. I have POSITIVE proof that I am in pain and that there is a medical situation causing the pain however I WAS REFUSED HELP that ONLY he could have provided. I asked him if he would give me about 6 weeks worth of pain meds so I could make arrangements for post operative care (I live out in the country 25 miles) plus other arrangements such as getting my son to school and applying for some disability and etc. 6-9 months in a halo at age 52 is not something you just jump into! BUT NO....NO MEDS FOR YOU!!! ANY doctor that does that under these circumstances should be ______. YOU fill in the blank.

OK, thanks and regards. I WILL read everything written...be it positive or negative. If I am screwed, then just tell me I am screwed....but if someone sees a shimmer of hope, please let me know.

Thank you all.

I'll try to help ~

#1 - Broad based disc bulges at T7-8 and T8-9 which completely wipes out the CSF spaces and neural foraminal narrowing. (the foramen are the holes that the nerves pass thru to get to the spinal cord -- yours are getting narrow)

C2-3 Mild broad based disc bulge with left uncovertebral and facet joint hypertrophy (overgrowth of bone) causing mild impression on the front CSF space and mild to moderate left foraminal narrowing (see above).

C3-4 Basically same as above

C4-5 Bilateral uncovertebral and facet joint hypertrophy causing mild bilateral foraminal narrowing. (see above)

C5-6 Broad based disc bulge with uncovertebral and facet joint hypertrophy causing near-complete "wiping out" of the front CSF space and mild right and moderate to SEVERE left foraminal narrowing (see above)

C6-7 Same as above

C7-T1 Fine

Findings : Likely a Type 1 Dens fracture - the Dens is a toothlike process that projects from the anterior end of the centrum of the axis in the spinal column, and serves as a pivot on which the atlas rotates. There is a non-union between the two fragments of the fracture. At T2 there is atrophy of the spinal cord representing myelomalacia, which is a softening of the spinal cord, due to a hemorrhagic infarction.


I am NOT a doctor -- I can just read these things. I would certainly take these films to a NEUROSURGEON for an opinion. If you have already done that, take them to ANOTHER one. You need at LEAST 3 opinions from NEUROSURGEONS. I am PARTICULARLY concerned about C5-6 and the SEVERE foraminal narrowing, but also the FINDINGS -- particularly the atrophy of the spinal cord, and the myelomalacia. So the sooner you can do this, the better.

PLEASE -- let us know what these Neuro's say, will you? I'd really like to know, and I'm sure everyone else would too! God bless and please take care. Hugs, Lee

Hi! I'll talk a bit about your situation. First thing, give all your guns to someone you trust and have them locked in a gun safe that you don't know the combination to. Then tell them under no circumstances to give them back until you are feeling better. Ok, when I was working for a coal mining company years ago, we had a saying-"When your up to your neck in alligators, it's hard to remember that your here to drain the swamp!" It's time to move on. The doctor you are seeing is unacceptable. Focus on finding somebody else asap. Find a practice that has a better demeanor than where you started. Compassion is out there somewhere for you. Word of mouth info from others might help point you in the right direction. It's tough and you should vent. At the very least, you should have vicodin es to start taking the edge off. Be careful with drinking though, opens up many other problems. I will get back to you with more soon. Take care, sfink

Hi! Leesa ,you rock! Excellent, Good advise! I think I'll get out your way, you got it going on!

I appreciate very much the replies. I vented in my post. Oh well. Fact is I expect a doctor in this type of situation to put aside more than ten minutes and address some of the other issues I am quite sure he has dealt with before and of which I neglected to ask due to the shear shock of what he said. He termed it as my spinal cord is bruised. When asked if that could be causing my headaches and other phantom pains he shrugged and said, "I don't know". I asked about my pain going through my shoulder and down my arm and into my hand. He simply shrugged. My neck "pops" in and out of joint in such a fashion that if I sleep with my neck in the incorrect position, my air supply cuts off and I awaken with a loud snort. I thought maybe apnea but it isn't, it's my neck "popping" backwards and putting extreme pressure against my adam's apple and cutting off my air. I made him put his hand on my neck and feel the anomaly. He said he didn't know why my neck did that but that it appears to be normal. I have always had very strong neck muscles. I suppose to compensate for the crappy neck. Now that I am getting older, those muscles aren't quite up to par so my bad structural neck problem is becoming more and more exaggerated and aggravated. I have good insurance. I have had several surgeries in the past including two discectomies, so the knife doesn't scare me but this doggone doctor did. He is supposed to be THE best here, highly recommended by everyone, recommended to me by another doctor that had work done by this guy. He scared me and my wife off without an iota of compassion. Would anyone out there let a guy like that decide the rest of your life? Not I.

I need to look up some info on this artery he has to "move out of the way so I can insert a screw just below it" He couldn't or didn't even tell me if these screws were going to fix the neck popping issue. I really am not sure at all the why and how of the repair. He said two long screws tying together some of the vertebraes and then something about some wire and cadaver bone. Halo for awhile and 6-9 months recovery provided I don't become paralyzed or die. Pain killers versus paralyzed or death. The obvious choice is painfully clear...lol

I got the CD of the MRI. I thought I would find some other "highly recommended" doctors, write them a letter, and send a copy of the report and CD, and see what they say. Do doctors work that way? Several people have told me to "get outside of the good ol' boy area"...IOW, go to another city because this one is controlled by only one hospital. In fact one hospital group controls two entire counties. I was thinking Birmingham, Montgomery, Mobile.

Hi Serious,

A couple of things....

1. Doctors simply don't know as much as many people think that they know. This is frustrating for patients, but it's better that they're upfront about it than string a patient along with BS. They will rarely/never admit a case is hopeless because they shouldn't; they know that they don't know everything, and there may be another doctor, or a new technological breakthrough that will offer hope -- if not today, then perhaps tomorrow.

2. Surgeons cut. That's pretty much all they do, so they do not, as a rule, prescribe unless it has to do directly with the surgery they are performing.

3. It's not the doctors who don't care about your pain; it's the bureaucrats & politicians who "play" doctor and make it so difficult for real doctors to prescribe pain medications that many have quit, by choice or ultimatum, and many just won't even bother anymore. If a patient dies on the operating table, it's an unfortunate accident. If a patient dies due to a mishap with pain medication that is not even the doctor's fault, that doctor is persecuted, characterized as a drug dealer or worse, and is lucky if s/he doesn't lose her license (and sometimes does). The standard is not the same.

Materials Distributed at AAPS 9/18/2004 Briefing to Congress - "Politics of Pain"

4. Some doctors, when confronted with cases they cannot help, are intimidated, and behave badly. It may not be "professional" but it is human.

A Letter to Patients With Chronic Disease

I know this won't help your pain, but I hope it will help you understand some of the situation.

Doc

I sure agree with Leesa, keep going until you get a doctor who responds to you. It is in humane to make a person suffer with a broken neck. There is help to be had, but it will take some effort to get the pain control you need. While you are looking for another Neurosurgeon, please look into a good pain specialist. It took me 4 tries before I found a doctor who had some compassion. Don't give up, there are doctors out there that will help you. Post where you live, and maybe someone on Neuro Talk, can give you a name of one. Look into a physiatrist. Mine happens to specialize in pain control and is wonderful. I was told not all physiatrist specialize in pain mangement, so you may want to ask on the phone. Your PCP should help you out while you look for these doctors. I am sorry you are in such pain. I know it is temping to dring, or do anything you can to relieve the pain, but try not to. When you do get into pain management you are drug tested as a rule. I sure wish you all the best as you go forward with this. So sorry this happened to you. Keep in touch and let me know how you do. I care. ginnie

I live in Limestone County, Alabama....just 3 miles from I-65. About an hour from Birmingham and about an hour and a half from Nashville. Problem is I don't know whether my insurance company, which is ____of Alabama, will cover anything done or attempted in another state, such as Tennessee, or Kentucky. I have had this issue for quite awhile. I don't even know if the "double jointed neck" issue (popping in out of socket feeling) is a problem or part of a problem or if it is just a congenital defect. Obviously the broken bone fragment is a problem and I suppose the "bruised" spinal cord could be a problem however, I just don't feel the urgency to "get it fixed" because the solution appears to be far more detrimental to my life than just leaving it the way it is and hoping for the best. The spinal cord is alarming...can this cause seizures, or depression, or worse yet, complete craziness, loss of memory, alzheimers, instant unexplainable death...??? Can the cord simply break if I turn my head too fast or get jerked around in a car? I have lived with pain my entire life, either physically or mentally. It has become a normal everyday monkey on my back. I will be the first to admit however that there is truth in the old adage "Ignorance is bliss".

Also, I thought that physiatrists are nothing more than rehabilitation physicians...I have nothing to rehabilitate, in fact, I have not been able to even find a Chiropractor that will touch me, I would imagine a physiatrist would be the same way. Once a physician feels my neck and takes an x-ray, they refuse me treatment and keep referring me to the same damned neurosurgeon or orthopaedic surgeon.

My biggest fear of either having surgery or forgoing surgery is not death but the next worse thing...paralyzation. We don't allow assisted suicide in this country, I suppose because that would cut into the medical industry's profits. At least if I end up in an accident of some type, there is a good chance that I could simply die. That outcome is far more attractive than the alternative. I would certainly prefer to die than to be a lifelong burden on my loved ones just because I still have brain function. Life is hard enough as it is without adding additional burdens. I filed a DNR yesterday and got a dog tag that says so with a phone number to verify the DNR.

We are all dealt a hand of cards and simply must live with them until the end. I wish doctors knew just how much what they say and how they say it affects the entire life outlook and outcome of a person, and his family. A person that obviously has things a little worse than the rich and fun loving doctor that can tell things so bluntly and flippantly with the gleam of dollar signs in his eyes.

Thanks for your support and compassion everyone.

That's not entirely accurate, but I believe you still have a long way to go (options) before things are that dire.

Assisted suicide in the United States

Then I think it would be worth reviewing your policy, or calling and asking. However, I've never heard of a policy (not that one couldn't exist) that doesn't cover the insured anywhere in the US (or further).

Doc

I did not read every post in it's entirety. From what I briefly read, issues exist at C0-C1 and you want answers! If you had severe trauma to your neck immediately preceding your symptoms, then acute injury makes sense. If there is no significant trauma preceding your change in symptoms, then spontaneous onset of a congenital anomaly is at least a thought and judging from your post might explain what is going on. It changes nothing in so far as your pain but explains why you are and where you are at with your docs and why they may be blowing you off....