After being rear-ended twice with two cases of whiplash, an x-ray revealed (when I was seen for second accident) that I have zero curve in cervical spine and the doctor acted like it was really a big deal and recommended me to a "spine specialist".

I was feeling OK and didn't go as it was also at the time that our family's world was turned upside down and I had to care night and day for my daughter and little man, as well as unborn grandchild.

I've been having on and off semi-numbness, pins and needles, and tingling down my left arm on the outside (elbow down to ring and pinkie fingers), but also at times down into my left foot (most of the time it was the outside toes as well but now it just starts there and will move all the way to big toe and include top side of foot). Sometimes both feet are involved, but mostly it's the left.

You know the feeling when your leg has fallen asleep and you've just changed your position to get blood flow back to it...that pins and needles, tingling with still some numbness there? That's the way it feels...though sometimes my outside toes will feel completely numb, minus the rest.

Also, every single night in bed I'm doing it now with my arms. I can only lay in one position that one of my arms or hands won't do that.

I've found, now, that I'm holding myself very stiff as well...shoulders always high and tense and I don't know when this began and I can get dizzy out of the clear blue. It's like I'll turn or move quickly and my body stops turning/moving but my brain doesn't. It's strange and only lasts a few seconds.

I know I should follow-up with the specialist now that things are calming down in my world (I couldn't have done PT or anything regular if my life had depended on it before), but I just wondered if showing zero curve in my cervical spine is as concerning as the doctor's face showed it to be...he almost seemed shocked...repeating there was absolutely none.

Does anyone know anything about this that they can share? I wonder if this could it be a cause for the semi-numbness, pins and needles, tingling and weird "dizziness" that I feel?

When going through all the upset with daughter's illness, etc., I chalked it up to stress, tension, etc. It's not gone away though, but is even more persistent, it seems. It's now becoming an issue that I don't think I can put on the back burner or ignore.

Anything shared would be appreciated.

KD

hmm, some of what you mention could be a form or start of thoracic outlet syndrome... whiplash, and other car accidents can be a factor in cases of it.

Have you ever done chiropractic? {expert one of course}
You might need a c1/c2 upper cervical adjustment and most likely the whole spine and some PT sessions with soft tissue work.

let me know if you want more info or the useful sticky on the TOS forum post # 1 has chiro, triggerpoint, bodywork- all kinds of helpful info.

the feet and leg stuff could be tied in to misalignments only lower in the spine.

I was afraid the the feet issue might be separate. I've never really had issues with my back, but lower back, hip and leg arthritis runs heavily throughout my family as one ages.

That said, a chiro did say many years ago that I have definite scoliosis of the spine, but it wasn't severe and could be addressed later...that was about 15 or so years ago?

I'm petrified of certain things with dr's. and when they wanted to treat my first case of whiplash, they put my head in traction. I never went back. That couldn't happen again. See about five years prior, there was an incident with a dr. who put my head in a devise after an injection (he was later convicted and lost licensing forever with serving jail time as well-by the time the police acted there had been many women with my being the first to file a police report. The poor young woman who helped the police by wearing a wire died before the case and her civil suit was completed. She did know, though, before her death that he would never "practice" again).

I don't know how much I could tolerate of PT or chiro. That's sad, but true. I feel weak for it, but can't stand the thoughts of it.

Now if someone goes with me, I might be able to tolerate it. We'll have to see what the specialist says.

I feel stuck and I've realized typing this it's probably another reason I've put off treatment and following through.

Thanks for the information, Jo. Again, I feared they were two separate issues (never occurring at the same time, etc.) as my lower back screams at me if I sleep longer than 5-6 hours, etc. Ugh, getting old bites! LOL

Thanks again.

KD

HI KD,

. I had the same thought as JO, that some of the sx sound similar to TOS. And based on how stiff you are holding yourself could be putting pressure on some of those nerves inthe cervical area and brachial plexus.

Be careful at the computer not to lapse into forward head posture. We all do it but I have to be conscious of it because prolonged periods make me sore. And make sure you have an ergonomic set up.

The spine doc I recently went did say that the higher up the injury on the spine, ie cervical the more untable your whole spine becomes and then other areas of your spine compensate for the instability and could be causing some of your leg symptoms. For example do you hurt sometimes between the shoulder balde? I do but nothing wrong with my thoracic spine. But what happens is my thoracic spine is it is a broad area and it then take the load for keeping me stable when my head is floppy (hmmmm I think floppy head affects my brain ) Just a little cervical humor there.

When it comes to the lumbar area which is probably causing your leg symptoms, try to notice in the midst of normal activites how you pelvic area is positioned. If your posture is trying to stabilize your neck you could be forcing your pelvis backward to compensate which can put you into something called kyphosis (flattening of the back curve) which will put pressure on those lower discs.

The spine and back are an amazing machine and sometimes to stabilize we dont even realize how we have to hold oursleves which is making other areas stressed.

I googled zero curve a little. Is there any kind of brace they can give you to help change the curve slowly that you could wear at home etc. Our head is heavy and those poor muscles around that area get fatigued holding it up. There is constant tension to keep the head balances. Maybe a brace intermittently would help. Maybe a zero gravity chair to relax in at night? They have some at relax the back. Or cervical pillows to sleep on to help the curve.

To hold yourself right you have to havestrong abdominals. This is my problem. I have no strength there. Makes my posture worse.

SOunds like chaning the curve will take time. And be a little uncomfortable.

One gentle thing you could try is Cranio Sacral Massage. I get nervous around chiros and neck adjustments when I read an article about if they jerk too fast they can damage the blood vessels in the area but cranio sacral helps me even if it is temporary. Although a chiro might help you with some exercises for the posture. My chiro had a contraption that changes curves that you could do at home. I will try to find the name of it. I think it cost like $300.

PT might help. Atleast they could give you some exercises to work at home. Dont let them talk you into surgery as the 1st step. Try PT and a combination of things.

Oh, wow, thank you so much for the information! I'm going to bite it off in bits and pieces because there's alot of great advice there!

A couple of things standing out to me is your mentioning the area between the shoulder blade....OH MY GOSH. It's not smack dab between them but off to the left side (same side and interesting, yes?) I have the most amazing, insane tingle itch that I could literally scratch the skin off my back and it wouldn't be satiated. I've narrowed that down to when I'm sitting at the computer for a longer period...night time. I've scratched sores before...but it's a burning itch/tingle...feeling a weird numbness on the very surface of my skin. So strange. I figured it had to do with my posture at the computer and that might be a complete explanation for that.

Several times recently hubby has lookd at me and said, "Kim, honey, sit up. You never did that before and you look almost doubled in half." My shoulders roll forward significantly and they're so tight and tense.

The muscles in my neck hurt literally at any given time...that's the truth. If they don't hurt me, all I have to do is touch and have soft spots (mostly on the right though...strange), even up into the lower part of my head.

When I was typing this last night, I tried to relax my shoulders and let them drop down (but not forward) and it hurt...when i pushed it, I almost started spasming. It actually even had a "pulling hurt" but not bad just bruised feeling, it the front of my chest! Now, if I let them drop forward, it doesn't hurt my neck but my back between my shoulder blades will ache, then soon after I'll go into that insane burning itch over the left.

It makes so much sense what you said about the lower back compensating.

If I move my neck around too much (say twirl it around to try to work it...loosen it up), I'll actually get lightheaded/headrush feeling. If I turn my head at a 90 degree angle and hold it, I'll get lightheaded when I bring my head straight again...like a small headrush or something. It always hurts on the right side, back of neck to do that.

I appreciate you all sharing so much. I'm really apprehensive about all of this...especially know that I have no good excuse not to address it now and I figure knowledge is the best power in preparation to combating the massive anxiety I'm feeling with the treatment potentials.

See, I haven't allowed myself to think much about it, but as I'm typing this and it comes together, I really need to bite the bullet, don't I?

Thank you so much because I'm beginning to have a bit more understanding and that always lessens my anxieties about something. It's very good to know that I won't be alone while doing it.

KD

kimmy, there are good and bad chiro's like there are good and bad dr's.

talking to the chiro and getting a non spinal or cervical adjustment first is a good idea. you may have an ankle or a knee that is out of wack or an elbow. it will give you a "taste" of how the dr treats and their bed side manner. also help aliviate any fears.

boy howdy with my back problems i have to be super careful. i did tons of research. we had a clinic at he club, so having a personal relationship helped, but i still have never had any adjustments near my injury.

the zero curve....it's getting to be a major issue with computer use. it's seen in young kids now too.

i haven't read the whole thread...so i might be giving you advice you have already gotten.

but think of the releif like when a joint you have feels stuck..like an ankle or elbow and it "pops'. the ahhh feeling. it can be just like that.

maybe something like this would help-
http://www.healiohealth.com/tek9.asp...cific=jrpofpp8

took me awhile to find it , couldn't recall the name of the thing.

also i really liked the books by Pete Egoscue
in libraries - and his site -
http://www.egoscue.com/painfree/painfree.php


If you decide to see any PT or DC request a "get to know you" or eval visit before any treatment - tell them of your concerns due to the from previous care.

I am 28 years old and have to lean against a wall to bend over to put socks on etc.. Now I just wear slip ons. I've been telling my doctors of my back problems since 1995 (when I was 15) and, I believe primarily because of my age, physical issues were pretty much dismissed instantly.

I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia when I was 17 and have deal with that off and on. It's been getting particularly bad recently and my SPINE hurts... I get weakness in my muscles.

I ALSO hold my shoulders high. The muscles in my neck and shoulders are constantly hard and sore from doing this... I'm not sure when that started, but I also have anxiety and I just assumed that was the cause.

I went to the OHSU Comprehensive Pain Center where I was asked a battery of questions (after filling out 15 pages of paperwork about my pain) by a nurse practitioner. After about the third question it seemed that she was disinterested... this happens to me with a lot doctors, partially because of my age and partially because of my mental conditions. I got my chart notes from the very first visit with my current GP and it referred to my "psychosomatic symptoms"... He didn't even test for anything! He, like most doctors I've seen, ASSUMED that because of my age that the pain must be in my head or because of my weight or fibromyalgia.. etc.. there's always an excuse.

If I spend too much time upright (usually in a chair is worst) my neck muscles get weaker and weaker until I'm sitting in my chair with my chin resting on my chest.

I also have a "buffalo hump" just under the base of my neck. I've mentioned it to several doctors and they all said it was just a fat pad and nothing more. They wouldn't listen to me when I told them it changes sizes etc.. sigh...

Anyway.. you aren't alone and I'm looking for any advice I can get as well. :-(

Anybody have any info on getting disability? Been struggling with that since 2004 as well...

Thanks everyone.

This may be a long-shot, but I think something still worth asking, V-DubChick:

Have you had a HLA-B27 test?

I heard nearly the same as you and at nearly the same age; when my spinal probs. had progressed terribly, my rheumatologist referred me to a psychiatrist because he (rheumy.) had wanted to chalk everything up to psychogenic whatever. $700 later and... hmmm, psychiatrist didn't discern signs of psychogenic whatever. And... the physical probs. persisted.

Advance some years, and a doc-friend suggested that my doctors order the testing for HLA-B27. I had the tale-tell indicators for Ankylosing Spondylitis or AS. Sure enough, the lab test came back positive. My doctors, either not wanting to believe or hoping to dismiss it, order a repeat on the test. Again, positive.

I think that, at times, and depending on the doctor(s), age (or youth) can be a detriment to accurate dx. Some of the tests that docs would not hesitate to order for some are just not considered for all - with like symptoms. Too, sometimes, it takes a periodic repeat on tests for the tests/results to actually display the things that enable doctors to make an accurate differential dx. (Take sed rate testing, for instance.)

Thanks to all the diddling around my doctors did - for about a decade - my spine is total crap, and I'm disabled. I both loathe and love my w.chair (because it does provide for more independence). But, if I had my way, I wish that the docs would have been more astute and ordered the darn'd test that is one of the main staples in dx'ing AS.


Keep on those doctors. Some times, it takes guiding them so that they believe it is their idea to order appropriate films, etc.

I have felt for many years that something is wrong with my spine and of course all my pain was either due to fibromyalgia or depression.

When I read your post I started to cry... I've been researching a very broad spectrum of my symptoms online and something I see over and over again is ANKYLOSING SPONDYLITIS ... I didn't think much of it at first, but because that particular disease keeps popping up repeatedly in all my different searches... I swear I'm seeing it EVERYWHERE! and it was just all of a sudden it appeared and it's not going away. 6 or more months ago I started seeing it and talked about it to my husband alot just because it's fun to say the name (maybe not so much if you actually have it.. :-/). But it keeps popping up and I feel like my gut is telling me this is a sign that I need to have that looked into.

I know that AS is not a very common disease and I know that it's even more rare for women to have it than men. If anybody would have something rare, it would be me though.

I am going to call my doctor tomorrow morning and ask if he will order the HLA-B27 test. Honestly, I'm scared ******** to have it done. Every time I tell my doctors I'd like a particular test or I think I have a particular illness they just assume that I'm a hypochondriac. What these assholes don't get is that I'm the only one who feels my pain.

Thank you very much for the information... I am glad you sent me this because now I am motivated to actually have the test done.

Thanks again.