[DMACK]

from the Irish Independent

Saturday September 04 2010
In Ian O'Doherty's impassioned piece on euthanasia (Irish Independent, September 3) he touches on a number of crucial issues regarding death and dignity.
The crux of his argument seems to be that there should be a human right to euthanasia in order to alleviate human suffering in certain end-of-life circumstances.
Thankfully, there isn't such a human right; in fact, the contrary is the case. The right to life contained within article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was enshrined partly as a response to the existence of euthanasia within German society at the time.
In reality, what right to die means is the supposed right of an innocent person to be killed, whether voluntarily or involuntarily. There is no dignity in an innocent person being killed by physicians whose job it is to heal and protect human life.
Where euthanasia is legalized, as in the Netherlands, studies show that involuntary euthanasia is forced upon vulnerable patients as a result of a lax attitude towards the right to life.
The same lack of respect is evident in the Dignitas clinic that O'Doherty mentions, where human ashes are, allegedly, routinely dumped in a nearby lake. The clinic is currently under investigation by the Swiss authorities.
Modern pain relief has ensured that physical suffering is minimized for terminally ill patients. The main form of pain such patients go through is, understandably, emotional and psychological.
The appropriate response to psychological suffering is counseling and care.
Euthanasia in these circumstances fixes the problem by using the death of the patient to end their suffering, rather than by caring for the patient through treating the cause of their psychological suffering.
There would be no suffering in the world if we killed all the people, but there would be no human rights either.
Thomas Finegan
Maynooth, Co Kildare
Irish Independent


http://newsdeskinternational.wordpre...ashes-in-lake/
TOM
please read the above link.............it brings into question whether organized euthanasia is the DIGNITY.........THAT SO MANY POOR SOULS CRAVE......




It is so very true, in that if someone is determined to end their life they ultimately will do so.......



What really bothers me is what is justified....................

Yes I understand the concept of terminal pain...........I watched my father die with stomach cancer............and sat next to a lady[IRIS] for 12 weeks by her hospital bedside and watched her slowly die from a healthy 8 stone, to flesh and bone. [I had supported her for 5 years up to this point] She had learning disabilities and also had schizophrenia, she developed a bowel blockage and her abdomen swelled up like a balloon.
Whilst in hospital....the doctors soon discovered her mental health condition.......their answer, to her plight was to wait and see if the swelling subsided.........[anyone else would have been immediately operated on, and the damaged bowel area removed, and a colostomy bag fitted...they ruled this out for IRIS....because they said she did not have the mental capacity to cope with the bag.........they gave no thought that she was cared for 24 hours a day...and she would be supported through this dilemma...MY GOD she lived a life for 7 years [in an asylum prior to being re-housed into the community] with a prolaspe from her behind, which was surgically repaired as soon as she moved out of that hell hole.

They eventually agreed to help remove the mass of swelling with repeated enemas, and the drug you receive to bring you out of an anesthetized state, which shocks the body.......this relieved the situation for three hours until the swelling retuned........she was put on a drip and remained that way for the next twelve weeks.........slowly shriveling away into a skeleton with skin. [A nurse told me off the record...the reason why an operation, and colostomy bag where not carried out, was in her words... ‘IRIS WAS SEEN AS A DRAIN ON RESOURCES.........NOT A SUITABLE CANDIDATE.........[the former comment was what she meant]

A clear case in my eyes of enforced euthanasia..........but hell what do I know...

And on the subject of suicide.................... below is interesting reading as well.

STATISTICS ON BULLYING
Sonia Sharp, an expert on bullying, said in a speech for Brighton and Hove Education Authority UK
• 1 in 2 students experience occasional bullying during any school term
• 1 in 4 students in primary school are bullied more than once or twice at least in any term (so they are more than twice as likely to be bullied as those in secondary schools)
• 1 in 10 in secondary school are bullied more than once or twice at least in any term (some research says one third of secondary students are bullied during the course of the school year)
• 1 in 10 primary aged students are persistently and frequently bullied - possibly every day
Some facts from other experts:
• Between 15 and 25 children every year commit suicide because they are being bullied (there may be more we don't know about, and many more than this attempt it because bullying has made them so unhappy.
• More than a quarter of students get threats of violence whilst at school, and half of these threats have been carried out.
• Attacks on boys accounts for 75% of these incidents.
• Around 10% of children have missed school because of the violence.
• Up to 40% of secondary school students feel that their teachers are unaware of the bullying which goes on.
• About 17% of calls to ChildLine are about bullying. For five years running it's been the most common reason people call
• More 12 year olds call ChildLine about bullying than any other age group


Suicide is not the answer, but desperate times can lead desperate solutions.............no age barrier ..........

David

[lebelvedere]

Originally Posted by DMACK

from the Irish Independent

Saturday September 04 2010
In Ian O'Doherty's impassioned piece on euthanasia (Irish Independent, September 3) he touches on a number of crucial issues regarding death and dignity.
The crux of his argument seems to be that there should be a human right to euthanasia in order to alleviate human suffering in certain end-of-life circumstances.
Thankfully, there isn't such a human right; in fact, the contrary is the case. The right to life contained within article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was enshrined partly as a response to the existence of euthanasia within German society at the time.
In reality, what right to die means is the supposed right of an innocent person to be killed, whether voluntarily or involuntarily. There is no dignity in an innocent person being killed by physicians whose job it is to heal and protect human life.
Where euthanasia is legalized, as in the Netherlands, studies show that involuntary euthanasia is forced upon vulnerable patients as a result of a lax attitude towards the right to life.
The same lack of respect is evident in the Dignitas clinic that O'Doherty mentions, where human ashes are, allegedly, routinely dumped in a nearby lake. The clinic is currently under investigation by the Swiss authorities.
Modern pain relief has ensured that physical suffering is minimized for terminally ill patients. The main form of pain such patients go through is, understandably, emotional and psychological.
The appropriate response to psychological suffering is counseling and care.
Euthanasia in these circumstances fixes the problem by using the death of the patient to end their suffering, rather than by caring for the patient through treating the cause of their psychological suffering.
There would be no suffering in the world if we killed all the people, but there would be no human rights either.
Thomas Finegan
Maynooth, Co Kildare
Irish Independent


http://newsdeskinternational.wordpre...ashes-in-lake/
TOM
please read the above link.............it brings into question whether organized euthanasia is the DIGNITY.........THAT SO MANY POOR SOULS CRAVE......




It is so very true, in that if someone is determined to end their life they ultimately will do so.......



What really bothers me is what is justified....................

Yes I understand the concept of terminal pain...........I watched my father die with stomach cancer............and sat next to a lady[IRIS] for 12 weeks by her hospital bedside and watched her slowly die from a healthy 8 stone, to flesh and bone. [I had supported her for 5 years up to this point] She had learning disabilities and also had schizophrenia, she developed a bowel blockage and her abdomen swelled up like a balloon.
Whilst in hospital....the doctors soon discovered her mental health condition.......their answer, to her plight was to wait and see if the swelling subsided.........[anyone else would have been immediately operated on, and the damaged bowel area removed, and a colostomy bag fitted...they ruled this out for IRIS....because they said she did not have the mental capacity to cope with the bag.........they gave no thought that she was cared for 24 hours a day...and she would be supported through this dilemma...MY GOD she lived a life for 7 years [in an asylum prior to being re-housed into the community] with a prolaspe from her behind, which was surgically repaired as soon as she moved out of that hell hole.

They eventually agreed to help remove the mass of swelling with repeated enemas, and the drug you receive to bring you out of an anesthetized state, which shocks the body.......this relieved the situation for three hours until the swelling retuned........she was put on a drip and remained that way for the next twelve weeks.........slowly shriveling away into a skeleton with skin. [A nurse told me off the record...the reason why an operation, and colostomy bag where not carried out, was in her words... ‘IRIS WAS SEEN AS A DRAIN ON RESOURCES.........NOT A SUITABLE CANDIDATE.........[the former comment was what she meant]

A clear case in my eyes of enforced euthanasia..........but hell what do I know...

And on the subject of suicide.................... below is interesting reading as well.

STATISTICS ON BULLYING
Sonia Sharp, an expert on bullying, said in a speech for Brighton and Hove Education Authority UK
• 1 in 2 students experience occasional bullying during any school term
• 1 in 4 students in primary school are bullied more than once or twice at least in any term (so they are more than twice as likely to be bullied as those in secondary schools)
• 1 in 10 in secondary school are bullied more than once or twice at least in any term (some research says one third of secondary students are bullied during the course of the school year)
• 1 in 10 primary aged students are persistently and frequently bullied - possibly every day
Some facts from other experts:
• Between 15 and 25 children every year commit suicide because they are being bullied (there may be more we don't know about, and many more than this attempt it because bullying has made them so unhappy.
• More than a quarter of students get threats of violence whilst at school, and half of these threats have been carried out.
• Attacks on boys accounts for 75% of these incidents.
• Around 10% of children have missed school because of the violence.
• Up to 40% of secondary school students feel that their teachers are unaware of the bullying which goes on.
• About 17% of calls to ChildLine are about bullying. For five years running it's been the most common reason people call
• More 12 year olds call ChildLine about bullying than any other age group


Suicide is not the answer, but desperate times can lead desperate solutions.............no age barrier ..........

David

Hello, David: Thanks for your latest installment. As for the report on the Swiss group, Dignitas, anybody here can plug that name into their search engine and see for themselves. I had some superficial encounters -- emails, nothing more -- that gave me the impression that Dignitas is not the way to go, for me at any rate. Minelli, the head of Dignitas, has allowed nebutal to be given to people who did NOT have incurable or debilitating diseases, who are not in pain or severe discomfort; he has the position that anybody who wants to commit suicide should be allowed to do so. I think he has gone too far in that regard.

As for your father and your elderly lady patient friend, god, my heart goes out to them. I am 200%-against "enforced euthanasia." Is there "murder by neglect"? However, I believe that people who meet certain medical conditions should be given the choice of euthanasia. Such is my position, but it is far from being an unqualified one. The potential for abuse is incredible: witness the current Swiss dispute regarding "suicide tourism." The temptation to convert euthanasia into a money-maker may, indeed, prove to be overwhelming. The demand for the "product" is there. Ask any elephant or mammoth.

I got to thinking about our exchange of songs. Everybody knows about Susan Boyle, and "I Dreamed A Dream." How many were privileged, as was I, to see the original performance in "Les Miserables" in London? Here is what I saw, with English subtitles no less for us Americans who didn't understand it the first time around: http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=-Jo4...eature=related. Well, everybody, talk about a show-stopper ...

I'll sign off. Bestest, Tom

[Alffe]

London! My favorite city in the world....ask David! Thanks for the great song Tom.

[lebelvedere]

Originally Posted by Alffe

London! My favorite city in the world....ask David! Thanks for the great song Tom.

Glad you liked it. Ruthie Henshaw is a heart bandit.

[DMACK]

Fabulous song Tom...and in my humble opinion....the best of Sir Andrew Lloyd Webbers musicals by a country mile.......[ my favourite Les Miserables song is Master of the House....cheers me up no end ...lol ] I watched the performance at the Lowry in Manchester way back with Michael Ball.


Tom what intrigues me about your choice of song from this musical..........is the sheer melancholy of the song # ‘I Dreamed a dream’...........and the utter sadness of the lyrics


I can truthfully say I have never purchased a Record/Album/CD unless it passes the MMHSOE test
Makes..My..Hair..Stands..On...End [TEST]


Music has been my soul mate and sanctuary so many times............maybe I am seeking messages.[LOOKING FOR LIGHTS TO GUIDE ME HOME] ..Or..guidance from other humans who pen such fabulous lyrics, and musicians and composers who deliver the ultimate tune..........that digs its claws into my heart and either tickles it or near on wrenches it out ......................

maybe between us all we share the infinite answers to life itself with all its turbulent emotions, and song+ music...... is just an instrument to convey a message.

I ‘dreamed a dream’ lyrics

There was a time, when men were kind
And their voices were soft
And their words were inviting
There was a time, when love was blind
And the world was a song
And the song was exciting



I dreamed that love would never die
I dreamed that God would be forgiving

Then I was young and unafraid
And dreams were made and used and wasted
There was no ransom to be paid
No song unsung, no wine un-tasted

But the tigers come at night
With their voices soft as thunder
As they turn your hope apart
As they turn your dreams to shame

He slept a summer by my side
He filled my dreams with endless wonder
He took my childhood in his stride

And still I dream he'd come to me
That we would live the years together
But there are dreams that cannot be
And there are storms we cannot weather

I had a dream my life would be
So different from the hell I'm living
So different now from what it seemed
Now life has killed the dream I dreamed


Tom

I hear your pain, of life and current suffering in this song, and the despair you so bravely hide. And hear you reminisce of healthier times............[you mentioned from your first post of the healthy athletic life you had] & the productive time of youth. [By the way 66 is very young]


Tom there was a time it all went wrong, when life changed, and which has presented you with many difficult challenges.........and maybe you see your age as Autumnal and your debilitating condition as taking away what was vibrancy.


Tom the tigers come to us all at night and during the day and afternoon..........but only if we feed them.

Tom... by god if we let the forces of despondency in...... Yes they will completely obliterate hope. [It is thier job]

Tom then there is desperate hope that our life is worth living, and all the previous storms were worth battling through...and yet we resign ourselves to be undone by the ultimate storm....where we just close our eyes and hope it passes over us

Tom then finally we realise our life is changed forever,,,and life becomes a hell...a huge big catastrophe...............and nothing is as it was ....what we dreamt it would become..... a void.............filled with pain and despair

But that is just my interpretation of a song........

.and like all songs you can always go back to the beginning.......................when all ‘The world was a song, and the song was exciting’.....................play it again TOM........PLAY IT AGAIN


David

[DMACK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AaD...eature=related

David