I thank you for your thoughtful responses...the problem is me! Ok, identifying it doesn't make it go away. I am filled with rage!

I'm the one always telling everyone to TALK about it...Talking about it helps to heal us...Talking about it lessens the pain. How do I get my grandson to talk to me about his Dad when I have no contact with him? His father was a wonderful person...he was kind and gentle..had a huge laugh and was smarter than anyone had a right to be. I cannot and will not ignore the fact that he lived and was loved.

How could he have done such a stupid thing?

It always comes down to that thoughtless act that ruined us all forever.

I'm sorry.

don't be sorry.

your grandson didn't have you and your family to lean on and to learn from. he may not have heard any of the wonderful stories. his mother may never have talked about michael like you do.

my family was the same way. and the person didn't die! but hush hush..don't talk about her...like she never exhisted. pretty mean..and dumb. her children didn't even get to know her.

you have every right to be angry. totally ****** off.

your grandson may not answer right now. how many guys in their mid 20's can handle deep emotional pain? but i bet he reads the letters and notes. it will sink in. but if not in him...then when HIS son reads those letters and notes. he may never have been taught HOW to communicate. how to express his feelings.

i'm sorry your feel ruined. scarred and changed? but you are a wonderful person and you know i love you. i'll still love you if you're ruined.

No need to be sorry Alffe, we get it!

You don't have to ignore the fact that your son existed but .... unfortunately his son doesn't have to admit it either.

You want to help your grandson but part of that might be letting this go for a while, and in time he may open up but sometimes when we are pushed we put our feet down and fight harder to do what we want, you know what I mean?

Maybe he just needs to know you want to get to know him for him and not as a way to hold on to his father?

We know you love him and want a relationship with him but maybe he doesn't. Give him a chance to get to know you. You said contact has been very minimal since he was quite young, so give him a chance to know you.

You never have to say your sorry here for owning your feelings!

I'll keep you in my thoughts .

Well you can certainly see why I think forums are a wonderful place to give and receive support. Thank you for caring about me and for the good advice you continue to give me.

If I'm going to own it then it has to include forgiveness which has always been my stumbling block. My dear Pastor has even hollared at me about forgiveness and I still struggle with it...it's like my cross to bear is larger than anyone elses....come on lady....what about HIS! ~sigh

Dear Alffe

Your dear grandson is still very young, and on top of his youth has a wife and child of his own. This in its self creates obstacles. Whilst having his own feelings about his father, and his death.
Coping with those feelings, and not allowing emotion conected with that event, to enter his own family circle now, is his upmost thought.
If he shows emotion, will he become de-railed, unstable, un-happy. If he talks openly about his father will he compair similarities to himself. Does he feel as though the stain may rub off on him.

Young men have to cope with so much , now days. Maybe he is very close to his mother, and may feel guilt to talk to you, for fear of betraying her., Maybe he is scared to know about his father through your eyes, in case he upsets you with his anger, frustration, or even no feeling.

Sadly in his youth, he has not accepted he is not to blame, or you as his grandmother. You are both innocent Victims, with age i hope he see's this and reaches out for answers to his questions.

I agree with you , your memory of Michael should not be shelved. Though it may have to be neatly stored in a warm place, with easy access when the time is right. Your grandson needs a grandmother, i would possibly be very brave and turn up at his home, actions, are greater than words. If your visit is spurned be prepared for it, leave a pre-written letter of your feelings towards him, his wife and child, and yes his father. Be open and Honest, he may not like it but will respect you for it some day.

i hear your anger

Thinking of you and your family

David

.... gosh, you all offered such tremendous hope. understanding and support....
((((HUGS dear Alffeeeee))))

and David, you were the "icing on the cake" - a perspective I needed to hear.

I am the mom of a lost son. He is 30. I have had no contact with him for 8 years.

YES! Yes! I feel how important this forum is to me! xo Addy aka Susan

"You don't have to ignore the fact that your son existed but .... unfortunately his son doesn't have to admit it either"...that was a dose of reality I needed to hear...thank you Carrie.

David, I like trying to "store it neatly in a warm place". I could write a book about my manipulative former daughter in law...Michael was no match for her and neither is our grandson. He is under her thumb and must like it there. They live hundreds of miles from us.

Addy you must be so sick of me dear friend. You have listened to my garbage for years!!! Losing a son, doesn't really matter how we lose them, the pain is overwhelming at times. I'm so excited for you and your move...getting close now! Have you told the chorus yet?

Curious I'm so glad you love old ruined me...*grin.

And Looking you did help.

I'm just crazy about all of you....actually I'm just plain crazy!

Hugs for the room.

Dear Alffe......I wish I had words of wisdom or at least comfort to give you...

I think that dealing with a suicide is like an onion pealing away one layer at a time...(I know I have said that before...) but the next layer can suprise you when you thought you had reached the center...only to find more to peal away.

Obviously the birth of your great grandson scraped away a scab that was forming....now the pain is raw again and you are bleeding...

Let it out....and here is a hug from us....

Some things never seem to change.....

Oh, dear Alffe ........