That article brought back so many memories from OBT. Will it ever change!! Can't we somehow turn it around...by we of course, I mean society.

The difference between that chatroom laughing and egging him on, and what the Yellow Ribbon Program is trying to do is like living in two different worlds!!

Where is the outrage? Can't we treasure the lives we are given...can't we reach out to help each other. This generation of entitlement and instant gratification is going to have a very rude awakening...I know that makes me sound like a really old fart but if the shoe fits Alffe, wear it!

Quote Mistiis
I agree Abbie. I am trying to decipher that question myself. I figure if I can figure this out, that question of why people don't reach out, because I have such a hard time doing it myself, then that information can be used to help others. Maybe it needs to be brainstormed. I know there are plenty of people around who could contribute ideas. If we can get them too?? Maybe it could make a real difference. I'm still working on myself, trying to come up with some 'key.' ........
11-20-2008 10:50 AM


The lure of Suicide is the release from pain, worry, anguish inner turmoil.


if an individual was not suffering from the above the lure would not be present.
If consumed with the above feelings...who at the solitary destitute moment would you call for help????????

The blindness that the thought of suicide, bestows upon a person cripples the rational, isolates the art of comunication, consumes self esteem...reducing the individual into believing no one can help them..

We see adverts on TV for all sorts of things...but rarely do i see commercials depicting a soul tortured by suicidal thoughts...and a hand being held out drumming home help is out there.... Like Alffes thread said at the start if the communication is the concept and it saved one life it also saves a whole family ..............

David

"The lure of Suicide is the release from pain, worry, anguish inner turmoil."

And that's what makes depression such a formidable beast..it's always lurking there with false promises about the absence of pain..and when you are in so much pain, it's hard to get your mind around anything else.

Flooding the mkt with advertising is a great idea but that costs a lot of money and our prevention coalition has little money. Most of their members are volunteering their time and the newpapers are interested in the sensational aspects of suicide (like the internet story). I wish prime time public television would air yesterdays program with the panel of survivors.....their stories, their pain would educate a lot of people.

The Compassionate Friends sends out letters to newly grieving familys when they have lost a child. Suicide Support groups don't have this option because of the stigma...many people hide the fact that their loved ones took their own lives...some would welcome knowing that there is a group where they can "talk about it".

It should be viewed as a Public Service and given air time. ~sigh~

It has taken me a while to come back to this. I appreciate all the input. David, your insight is amazing. And it is right on. Spoken as only one who fights the battle can speak it. So I try to apply it. I begin with the 12 year old, who never even heard the word 'suicide' and yet, had some idea that bowing out of life was the only answer, and a lure it is indeed. How rational, would you say, is a 12 year old? Who would even consider the fact that someone that age would consider such an option. Actually, consider it the only option. Why the only option? Pain can be blinding. I have written several responses to this thread only to have it disappear. Hopefully this one will not. Reaching out requires the ability to communicate. If the ability to communicate is lost, then how can it be regained? In the case of the 12 year old (me) there was no reaching out either before or after, until years later. I think, maybe, there may be shame? ....for feeling this way? It intimates some kind of failure. That feeling that 'I just can't do it' 'I just can't take it' 'there is no other way out'....I wonder if that is part of what makes the reaching out so difficult. That, of course, would be for the first try. I'm not ready to address the other tries at this point. And, of course, I am coming from my point of view. Then I hope to see it from other points of view.

I believe that education would have to occur, not only for the suicidal, but for the public at large. I wonder about a station like PBS. Maybe they would be willing to tackle such a subject. I am thinking about Sesame Street as well. Why not have 'skits' dealing with sad feelings and what to do when they are experienced. We teach children their numbers, their abc's, but not necessarily how to deal with this 'beast' Perhaps, starting very young would help to avert problems in teens, and on up the line.

I think, it is true that people in general do not want to discuss suicide. It goes against the rational mind, and reminds people of their own mortality. "Death" as such is diffcult for most people, even when it is from natural causes. Much less when self-murder is involved.

I also wonder why suicide is not seen as an illness. There is plenty of information out there about preventing, treating, and dealing with cancer, diabetes, etc. But what about those who fight, or deal with, suicidal thoughts often. The silence needs to be broken. I know there are people trying to do that. Why don't we, as a society, want to confront it? Why are we so focused on always being happy? Tragedy, emotional pain, mental illness, and loss, are real. Everyone will struggle at some point in their life, no matter what they have or don't have. So, what is the difference between one who would never consider the suicide option, and one who does? I think it is a complicated issue. Each individual suicide, whether 'successful' or not, is unique to the individual making it. But, I think, the basic elements, pain, worry, anguish, inner turmoil, and the confusion it creates are all there. Yes, there may be alcohol and/or drugs involved as well. This can further impair ones ability to be 'rational.' Or, perhaps, it eases the guard down that one puts up keeping them from crossing that threshold. And now, they feel, that they can cross it. And, unfortunately, many do. The stigma is real, and it is seen as a weakness. Who wants to be considered weak? Another reason, I think, a person may not reach out.

At first you don't know and you may survive the fall or you may not. Then, you do know. (Alffe's analogy of the hole in the sidewalk) But it takes education to 'know' And it takes education to learn how to deal with suicidal thoughts. I think we need to try to remember as much as we can that Pter learned, and how he navigated through these thoughts without acting on them. Some people will have them and never act. Others will. I'm not sure yet what makes the difference. But I am learning how to navigate through them. I hope to share some of that. I will be brave and admit that I do deal with them more often than I would like to. But, I try, not to let it control my life. I am learning to re-direct, or just watch, those thoughts parade by without 'falling into them' (again, the analogy of the hole in the sidewalk)...
Ok, I guess, I am full of it today........

dear Mistiis


It is biography's like yours that will help create a dialogue about suicide.....yes i agree that young children should be educated in all aspects of life....and emotion's should be top of any junior school curriculum.

For a start off lets get rid of that horrible saying 'BIG BOYS DONT CRY'

By suppressing infant emotion we store up trouble later in life, not necessarily suicidal tendency..but we close doors on humans feeling free to express emotion with other human beings... for fear of ridicule, stereotyping, and castigation.

Sadly many of our young people nowadays seek solace and answers to their emotions through man made stimuli..............alcohol/drugs/music/gangs/.........this only isolates them more from searching for truthful answers....

Suicide in the UK is prevalent at present in under 25 year old's..........cannabis and cocaine, along with drink and ecstasy tablets are major factors in an increase in psychosis in this age group.......70% of the young men at my hostel are suffering mental health issues due to addiction... many do not know how to express their emotions verbally.........and to do so is seen as weak by many of their peers...........so solitary self exploration continues with addiction until they reach a point to realise people care about their well being ...................


PETERS beliefs were and are very thought provoking messages and are the basis of coping and recovery...............sadly many people fear talking to others about their desperation for fear of being ignored by others

CRYING WOLF........................[Peter...wolf...there is basis here alone to see a real connection]

if barriers can be brought down to address emotions.... peters coping stratergies could easily be administered to help the healing process..


For example .......if anyone has ever experience a PANIC ATTACK or ANXIETY ATTACK.......You will remember its debilitating effects, the terror it installs and that feeling of impending doom.............im going to die feeling....

Once seen by a medical proffessional and educated about the symptoms of theses bodily burgalar alarms ...............99% of people seek ways through medication, therapy, life style change, stress reduction etc etc... learn to reduce or eliminate the attacks and more importantly understand the reasons of the attack and know it is a natural self defence mechanism.

if only humans could understand suicidal thoughts like this explanation it may reduce the fatalities that world wide every day occur ...................

David

...well so much for my answer...I will have to try again later...

Sometimes I wonder if the reason is.. there's such a small success rate in dealing with those who are "clinically" depressed.

On the recent AFSP program there was a psychiatrist who considers himself a "survivor" because he had lost so many patients to suicide. Sometimes when they left his office he wondered if he'd ever see them again.

Here, in this forum, we talk about having those feelings....but not a large number of people share here....where do they talk?? Do they??

Being a person who is on that side... my guess is they don't talk...

I tried but it was hard to get anyone to really listen. Don't get me wrong... they would listen to me talk...but they really weren't listening--not really hearing what I was saying. Often times it felt like I was screaming so loud that no one could hear me.

After a while... I just gave up talking.

I'm sure this is the way it may be with others...

If someone tells you they need to talk.. please don't turn them away. If you aren't sure how you can help them... do what my friends did for me.. call someone who can... set up an appointment for the person... go with them. If you are not sure if your friend has health insurance... call around... there are places that that will see the person needing help on a sliding fee scale. The local crisis intervention number or 1-800-SUICIDE can and will guide you to these places.

Council News: In St.Joseph County alone there are 35-45 suicides per year, over double the number of homicides. This equates to potentially 3500 attemped suicides, and 250 new survivors (someone who lost a loved one) each year suffering this unique and crippling traumatic grief.

Suicide is a serious complex and multi-dimensonal public and mental health problem that is not gender-or-race-specific and crosses economic barrierrs. It's about pain, hopelessness, isolation, and silence.

Suicide is a public health problem stemming from a variety of issues. Stigma attached to receiving mental health care can create a significant barrier to those needing help. The majority of individuals who attempt suicide have given clear warnings, the National Mental Health Association reports, and it is critical that warning signs of suicidal ideation are recognized and responded to appropriately.

For each suicide there are approximately 25 attempts; up to 100 attempts in our youth. Also important, for each suicide that occurs, there are at least six survivors left behind that are intimately affected.

Suicide can be prevented in most cases, and it is a necessity that the needs of these unique populations be met.

Suicide Prevntion Council November, 2008 issue of Council News

The following books have been recently reviewed and added to AFSP's Survivors of Suicide Loss Bibliography. Our hope is that these books will offer hope and guidance for survivors at all stages of healing. To view the complete bibliography, click here.
Please visit www.afsp.org/shoponline to order from Amazon.com. Purchases made through www.afsp.org/shoponline benefit AFSP, at no additional cost to you.
SURVIVOR GUIDES
Dying to Be Free: A Healing Guide for Families after a Suicide
Beverly Cobain and Jean Larch, Hazelden Foundation, 2006. Co-authored by the cousin of Kurt Cobain, the lead singer of the band Nirvana who took his own life in 1994, and a crisis intervention specialist, this book combines personal accounts from survivors with practical guidance for coping with suicide loss.
Silent Grief: Living in the Wake of Suicide
Christopher Lukas and Henry Seiden, Jessica Kingsley Publishers, 2007.
Co-authored by a psychologist and a survivor of multiple suicide losses, this book is written with sensitivity and understanding, and offers simple, constructive suggestions for healing along with straightforward information and a message of hope.
SURVIVOR STORIES

Blue Genes: A Memoir of Loss and SurvivalChristopher Lukas, Doubleday, 2008. Christopher (Kit) Lukas, co-author of Silent Grief: Living in the Wake of Suicide, survived the suicide of his mother when he was a young boy. Neither he nor his brother were told how she'd died, and both went on to confront their own struggles with depression, a disease that ran throughout their family. In 1997, Kit's brother Tony, a Pulitzer-prize winning author, took his own life. Blue Genes is Kit's exploration of his family history, his personal journey and his determination to find strength and hope.

Dead Reckoning: A Therapist Confronts His Own Grief
David C. Treadway, BasicBooks, 1996. The author, now a successful family therapist, was just twenty when his mother, a longtime alcoholic, took her own life. Even as he counsels his clients on how to deal with death, loss and grief, he finds himself increasingly unable to manage his own. Turning to his own therapist for help, Treadway includes the reader on his journey of healing as he finally comes to terms with his mother's death.

Never Regret the Pain: Loving and Losing a Bipolar Spouse
Sel Erder Yackley, Helm Publishing, 2008. In her memoir, Sel Erder Yackley, mother of three, provides the reader an intimate glimpse into her family's struggle to understand, cope with, and grieve the bipolar disorder and ultimate suicide of husband, a well-respected judge.

The Suicide Index: Putting My Father's Death in Order
Joan Wickersham, Harcourt Inc., 2008. Wickersham uses an index -- that most orderly of structures -- to try to make sense of her father's suicide. The family history, business failures and encounters with friends and doctors are assembled into a philosophical, deeply personal and beautifully-written exploration of the mystery of her father's life and death.
FOR MEN
Swallowed by a Snake: The Gift of the Masculine Side of Healing
Thomas R. Golden, Golden Healing Publishing, 1996. This book by a licensed clinical social worker explores the stereotypically "masculine" experience of grief. In the author's words, "[a] man reading these pages will find a book that honors the uniqueness of a man's path toward healing. A woman reading this book will benefit not only from gaining a deeper understanding of the men in her life, she will find herself in these pages."
When Suicide Comes Home: A Father's Diary and Comments
Paul Cox, Bolton Press 2002. A father's perspective on the first year following his son's suicide, this book is written in a simple, straightforward way - an easy read for early grief. While written from a father's perspective, female readers (especially spouses) have said that it helped them better understand the male experience of grief. (Order by visiting www.boltonpress.com. Currently unavailable through Amazon.com.)
POETRY/INSPIRATIONAL
A Long-Shadowed Grief: Suicide and its Aftermath
Harold Ivan Smith, Cowley Publications 2006. Written from a Christian perspective, this book by a survivor of his cousin's suicide and former funeral director explores the aftermath of suicide through the lenses of spirituality and theology.
Healing the Hurt Spirit: Daily Affirmations for People Who Have Lost a Loved One to Suicide
Catherine Greenleaf, St. Dymphna Press, 2006. Written by a longtime survivor of multiple suicide losses, this non-denominational book encourages survivors to explore their grief through a series of simple readings and daily affirmations. (Order by visiting www.centeringcorp.com or CompassionBooks.com. Currently unavailable through Amazon.com.)