No different than AIG....rubbing our noses in the fact they got bailed out by taking yet another "working vacation" after they were rescued.

Until the people say "enough is enough" this is just going to keep happening.

At this point I don't think the workers should suffer for the ignorance of management. I think the current management should be let go (no severance), new and unbiased management brought in with a cap on salaries and the unused bonus money dumped back into the company to help get it back upright.

These CEO's and management execs do not deserve one more dime from those companies and it should be considered theft if they take anything else.....especially if they do end up getting a government bailout.

If you think the average UAW worker is "living paycheck to paycheck" you might want to look at the numbers again. Their average pay is $71/hr. If you multiply that by 40 hrs and 50 weeks per year, that is $142,000 per year. If you have to "live paycheck to paycheck" making $140,000/yr, you are doing something wrong.

Look, the management is obviously bad...they need to go. I also agree that publically owned companies should have limits on the ratio of CEO pay to employee pay. However, the collapse of the big 3 is a clear case of unions that were given too much power in the 70s and 80s taking too much from the automakers and refusing to accept a fair wage in the face of stiff foreign competition. Why did the UAW refuse to settle for fair wages? Because they had the power to demand more. They had the power and they used to to bring the big 3 to their knees over and over, while demanding higher and high wages. Sure, manage of the big 3 is bad...but management of the UAW is as bad or worse. Do you think the UAW president flies economy when he goes to DC? I bet you anything he flies in a private jet too.

Right now, because of the UAW contracts, the big 3 lose about $1000 on every single car they sell. Why on God's green earth should we agree to spend $25 billion to bailout a group of companies whose current business model is to sell their products for less than it costs to make them?!? The only way we should agree to give Detroit a dime is if the unions agree to lower their wages to a level that allows the automakers to have a chance to turn a profit. Otherwise we are just pouring money down a black hole.

My personal favorite for how to do the bailout is to take $700 billion...and give it back to the people. A large portion of us will use it to pay off credit cards, pay off mortgages, and to pay off car loans. With all of those debts off of their books where they don't have to hold reserves for them anymore, the banks and financial companies will have plenty of money to start lending again...credit crisis over!

The workers aren't suffering from the ignorance of the corporate management...they are suffering from the ignorance of their elected union leadership who forced noncompetitive contract terms on the big 3. Strikes were intended to be used when working conditions are so bad the workers could not be expected to go to work. The UAW and today's union leadership as a whole has used the weapon of strikes as a strategic negotiations tool to force unreasonable contracts on the management, knowing the investors would punish management if they let disruptions of production impact the quarterly earnings reports. The result is a non-competitive business. Continuing to put blinders on and accept the class warfare fantasies of "big bad management" and "poor suffering workers" will only help the unions continue the death spiral of american manufacturing. It is no secret nor a surprise that the only places in America where manufacturing is thriving are in right to work states where the unions don't hold absolute power over companies.

I was going to post something about this - thanks, Kelly! I'm absolutely spittin' mad about this one! During the last bailout (seems like it was only last month...oh, wait, IT WAS!!!) I was up late writing to my congressmen...is it time to do that again?

I still say let 'em fail, just like I said about the banks. My father in law works for one of the big suppliers and has already agreed to take the buyout this time, but I do worry about my sis and her husband, who work for a supplier as well.

I live in Harris County, GA, which is experiencing explosive growth - due to the auto industry! We have a kia plant slated to open next year, and you should see the number of supplier plants coming in...it's amazing. The "big three" could learn a thing or two from the plants down south (Montgomery AL has the Hyundai plant).

BTW - we have two Hondas as well with a combined 300,000+ miles - my itty bitty Del Sol is almost a classic!

My DH worked for GM all his life and nobody in the UAW made $71/hr. Anyone who believes that...well, I've got some oceanfront property in Arkansas I wanna sell you. That figure includes all benefits added to the hourly rate (life insurance, medical, dental, disability, etc.). At the time of his death he was making roughly $21/hr (this was 8 years ago). So yes, we did live "paycheck to paycheck" because we had two boys to raise plus all the expenses of a home. He would have loved to make $140,000 a year but that just wasn't happening....at least not at GM.

Why not have the execs and CEO's forgo that multi-million dollar bonus if the company isn't making any money? Seems only fair to me.

I do like your idea for the bailout money, though. I think I should get about $900,000.....yeah, that'd pay off all my debt, buy me a house and small car, allow me to save some for my old age care and be able to eat meat more than 3 X a week!!!

Do you happen to have a copy of the latest UAW contract...or know where one can be read and reviewed?

You know while I agree that certain things are excessive this is horrfically excessive its also a classic case of the media blowing things out of proportion and manipulating the news.

Should they have been smarter about the jets sure but I have another opinion that many will not agree with me on. But in my business I see CEOs and jets all the time and the amount of work that gets done on those jets is far more efficient than having them stand in line at an airport for two hours especially baed on what they get paid per hour.

And based on what they get paid I want those guys working 24/7 to solve these problems.

That does not mean that I think things are ok as is. There has to be massive change and the unions are not willing to change. And chage is hard to swallow. BUt that means the automakers have to be willing to give concessions as does the unions. And right now the unions do not see the forest through the trees.

So sure let them go bankrupt. Then what will the unions do when all their rank and file are unemployed?

Its unfortunate that the people that will really suffer through this will be the regular people, not upper management and not union management.

And you think the foreign autos are fine? Not by any measure. So goes the domestic autos and in time so go will go the foreign. Its like the tide and boats. They will all rise and fall together just maybe not as far. Foreign sales are down right now 30-40%, how long can that go on before they start cutting those $40 an hour American workers too. Right now the foreign automakers are privately panicking.

I certainly am for reform and absolutely want accountability all the way up the ladder.

But I am terrified of the ripple effect. Some parts of the country may be booming right now but this will affect the whole country and I just hope that we are not being shortsided with our lynch mob mentality right now. We need all these people to work hard to solve these problems.

You make some good points, Shelley.

The $71 average is total for salary and benefits - not just salary. A large portion of the $71 is the carrying cost of health insurance after retirment (the employee keeps the same plan as when working). In 2010 this expense will be transitioned to the Unions and the cost to the companies will drop by about $25 - putting the S&B on par with the foreign company auto workers.

This was outlined in the paper today - probably the Washington Post, but maybe the Wall Street Journal (sorry I can't remember which).

I have to say this too....about the jet thing and the media (since I work in media)...none of those reporters ever fly commercial. Maybe NBC, CNN and all the other media companies should start by making Tom Brokaw and every reporter fly commercial coach.

Hmmm Pot....Kettle....Black. The hyposcrisy of the media is sometimes laughable.