[Kitty]

GMA had a segment this morning about the Big Three (GM, Ford and Chrysler) and their request for a government bailout to the tune of $25 billion.

Let them file bankruptcy. It wouldn't be the end of GM (or any of the auto makers). They're blaming their problems on "an across the board decline in auto sales". GM is whining that they will run out of money before the end of this year. Me, too..... Let them file bankruptcy....many other companies have (United Airlines, Texaco, Georgia Pacific) and have emerged stronger.

Bankruptcy would let a judge supervise union contracts and benefits that have made it nearly impossible for them (Big 3) to compete against foreign car makers. Toyota, Honda, and other non-Big 3 auto manufacturers that employ over 100,000 Americans have shown that they can make a profit building cars in the U.S. The best way to keep U.S. auto workers employed in the future is to make it profitable to keep them working. If I can figure this out then it can't be too difficult to understand!! If you have the time google the "Job Bank" that GM has .....it's a big eye-opener and will get your blood boiling.

My late DH used to work for GM (his only job and he started there at age 18). The plant he worked in is no longer there. I think (no, I know) he would be totally disgusted at the way management has allowed things to become.

I will never, ever buy another car made by any of the Big Three companies again. Not only are Honda's and Toyota's more reliable....I honestly don't think we have to worry about them getting into the mess that the "Big Three" have ventured into.

[yeahbut]

Kelly - I can't believe they are doing this either. I hope Congress doesn't not give in to them. I agree there are so many other companies out there that went through the same thing.

As far as I am concerned they can file bankruptcy just like everyone else. I feel bad for the people who are losing their jobs but management should of planned a little better and maybe taken a pay cut to survive!

[Vonn07]

Kelly .. I agree ... maybe if they wouldn't try selling ONE car at over $36,000 ... and then some .. maybe everyone would benefit and have nice reliable cars at a decent price ...

why should we have to 'finance' a vehicle?? they should file bankruptcy and rethink their positions!

[Jules A]

Hopefully this isn't too OT but what about the huge pay checks, bonus' and severence pay, the fat Daddys that run these companies continue to get? I will never understand the concept. If my business loses money that year I surely don't get paid. Where is the logic in this, let alone the fairness?

Isn't there a country, maybe Sweeden or something, that has rules where the CEO of a company can only make a certain amount of money more than the lowest paid employee? As much as love capitalism and have enjoyed the fruits of my labor this sure sounds like a decent idea to me especially because in my experience some of the lowest paid employees have the hardest jobs anyway.

[watsonsh]

It is disgusting and I agree with all of you. Part of me certainly does not want to bail these guys out.

But the tickle down effect would overwhelm this country and certainly throw us deeper into a recession or depression.

It will start with the auto makers closing, significant layoffs at the automakers, then layoffs and closing at the parts manufacturers and then all those people spend less and it works its way to all the local businesses like supermarkets etc and then they have to cut costs and let people go.

And the closing of the parts plants would probably even hurt the foreign automakers in this country. I work at a place that handles business for a foreign automaker and because of the economy and the big three domestic guys they are getting pinched and already cutting abck by 1/3 which caused layoffs where I work.

However there should really be some come to jesus repercussions of running these businesses into the ground and being irresponsible.

And I totally agree on all the perks and severances. Failure should not be rewarded at all.

So as much as I do no wat the government ot bail these guys out I hope a solution is found so that it does not make the economy even worse.

[Victor H]

All of the officers, managers, union bosses and other bums should go to jail and have to work for food and housing. There is a Sheriff in Arizona that would love to have them all build a new white-collar prison for the scumbags.

I detest what they have done to their own workers and suppliers.

Bring in a new team to reshape the methodology within which these companies work.

If they want to build cars, then build cars and get out of the finanancing business.

If they want sales, then build competitive products, not the crud that they produce.

Finally, I think that ALL of the officers should be stripped of every penny they have and have it placed in the retirement plans of the workers.

-Vic

[Jomar]

shelley said what i was thinking ... it's not just the CEOs & the big business that will be affected, it's the employees, families & communities , that includes all the tax payers too.
If businesses close employees will be laid off and who pays then?
The working tax payers do....
Less wages paid out = less tax revenue to the government & more $$ paid out in unemployment benefits.....

But those companies do need to rethink the products they are making & selling. It would show some true intent for change if the top management take pay cuts.

ps hey Vic - I drive a 84 Volvo with 360,000 miles on it. We maintain our own cars too.

[Aarcyn]

I was listening last night (Wednesday, November 19) to a segment with Paul Krugman being interviewed. Paul Krugman recently is the Nobel Laureate in Economics this year. He teaches Economics at Princeton University.

He is in favor of a bailout even though the proposal is highly flawed. Since the auto industry is truly one of the US's biggest employers, it must be helped in our collapsing economy.

It would be different if unemployment was at 4% but if our economy is to be stabilized, the choices are limited. There can be no building from the bottom up without jobs.

If GM is to retool, it must have money infused to be able to belatedly create a more efficient car that consumers will want to buy.

Yes, there are real creeps running the business and flying in on corporate jets. Yes, I hope for regulations put on the money. But it cannot wait for a new administration.

These are the words of Paul Krugman, not my own. It makes sense.

[Aarcyn]

I also have to add that taxes come from people that have paid into the system.

So paying for health care, our roads, government employees, schools, all sorts of things fall apart when the unemployment is high and no goods are being sold and no taxes levied.

as far as the history of the 1980's and 1990's, the unemployment was lower.

Lots of businesses are going under, have you noticed?

Are you spending as much on Christmas, gas?

GM is a thing but that thing has people.

[CayoKay]

Originally Posted by Aarcyn

Paul Krugman is in favor of a bailout even though the proposal is highly flawed...

If GM is to retool, it must have money infused to be able to belatedly create a more efficient car....

usually I agree completely with Mr. Krugman, but this time he lost me.

see, the last bailouts went to prop up an unsustainable financial industry, and there were virtually NO safeguards put on the taxpayer dollars.

meaning, very little oversight of how the money's spent.

I'd agree with these bailouts if the Big Three had to use the cash infusion to make more efficient vehicles, and reorganize.

but I don't believe they will... it will just be GOOD money thrown after BAD, with no accountability, no requirements, and no mandatory improvements.

we saw the results of that already, with execs taking group spa holidays, and getting lovely gilded parachutes, for a comfortable landing.

that's why I tend more to agree with this guy (admittedly *not* an economist!)

Detroit must die

(snipped)

I realize I am no economist. I fully understand there might be reasons far larger and more fiscally complicated to justify keeping the Big Three alive for awhile longer, simply because, like AIG, so many billions are wrapped up in their operations and in the various supply chains that support them, to let them all fail nearly simultaneously could rip a hole in our sinking ship of state far larger and more dangerous than the one that results from letting them suffer and die slowly, bleeding billions all the way.

What's more, I'm also not so heartless to ignore the brutal job losses, the tens of thousands of collapsed pension plans and failed retirement accounts that would result from the end of American auto industry. It would be horrible indeed. But maybe that's where the government's billions would be far more useful, to ease the meltdown and provide retraining.

(I am also urged to note that the enormous, overstuffed UAW isn't exactly a saint, either, and that a large part of the responsibility for Big Auto's lack of innovation and change lo these past decades rests squarely on its petulant shoulders, too. You can't blame all the ills of American auto on the greedy CEOs and their shortsighted accountants. Just most of them.)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...otes111408.DTL