I don;t mean by any means to suck it up, but we need to change the way we do things';

An EMG is NOT going to find early TOS as the sensory nerves are tested, the ones that feel heat....the nerves tested during an EMG are the motor nerves which are larger, and last effected. These are the nerves that make your hand jerk back from the heat when the sensory nerves "feel" it.

Did Rick Reed do your test at the Upper Extremity inst do your test,
Dr Rick Reed or Tom Tolsom are the tops in inturpurting and diagx TOS on EMG by the wave patterns.
I had an EMG that showed nothing, but Tolson did mine with the receiver in my palm and the transmitter along my collar bone that was sending the signal. This showed the tos

When you raise your hands up in the air, like you are being held up the "stick em up" position.....bring your arms back that you feel it tight in the center back. This will close or compress the outlet if it is the issue.

See how long you can hold your hands up like this, 15 sec 2 minutes? Count how long they are up and when you feel what symptoms.

But never give up, see what you have and work with it. One thought, PT every day of the week is work....those nerves need to rest.
It is not a no pain no gain with TOS. You want to relax the spasms instead of inflaming muscles and nerves.
Have you seen Scott Fried?
di

The usual tests of raising arm, etc., don't show on me.

But there are times when my arms will turn bright red for no reason - the only problem is that I can't make them do that in front of a doc!!! It's not like a trick pony!!!

Babsie, I know how frustrating this all is. It was very hard, is still hard, for me to accept and understand that I have an incurable condition.

BUT, if you can get a VERY good pain mgt. specialist, you can work together to keep trying different drug combinations to bring down the pain so at least you can be the best you can be.



It's nice also to know that we are here if you need us.

Arrrgghh...
Any mention of trigger points, has any PT or anyone checked you for those ?
You cannot release a muscle until the trigger points are resolved.

I did not start to get really well until I learned about TrPs- I had them and I found them and got rid of them- mostly on my own with Tennis balls , dog ball, golf ball, finger and I even bought a pressure pointer at the beginning. I only really needed it for some specific ones in my back muscles since I couldn't get to them with the balls or anything else. It was still cheaper than a couple of PT visits LOL.

I did have some in my SCM & scalenes but those are touchy places best for a pro and my chiro got those resolved for me, only 2 tx for those, but we still had other stuff to work on then ,and the maintenance now, it just helps for me.

this post has a whole section on trigger points- it will help you to check your self to see if you have them - but if you have chronically tight muscles most likely you do have TrPS also.
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/post388-1.html

So here i am once again back, licked my wounds and tossed away my frustration over this situation i am in. I do appreciate you all have told me, and no they havnt done any trigger points nothing, basically they think nothing is really wrong.
Well how can they really. WSIB came to my work to check out my working conditions and they are pleased with my adjustments i made at work. But they have classified my shoulder a whts the word or words. well a injury that has healed as far as it can, and seems to be a permament work related injury. And i am on permament restrictions at work now.

I just want to feel normal, i am not used to feeling like this. no nerve damage then why am i experiencing all the tingling. i dont know, seriously. Is it all in my head? i wish and hope it is then it will be easy to get rid of.

How do i go about asking for more tests? Im going to the emg specialist again in July, wht for i dont know she already said i had no nerve damage.

when i raised my arms by 20 seconds my hands had alot of tingling going through them, my arms felt a little burning

Possibly what you are having now could be some adhesions & impingement's causing trouble.

If you read about fascia and how it can get sticky-- this stickiness can make the muscles stick to the nerves and cause a lot of problems.
There is no test that will really prove it.
But you can read about it and try some of the stretches and passive positions to see if after a time some improvement is happening for you.

Sharon Butlers repetitive strain injury Book really helped me to understand about fascia, but I had to re read it a few times and do the stretches in her book to for it to really sink in.
And it did help me quite a lot.
She also has a website with a lot of information on it.
www.selfcare4rsi.com

I spent an hour reading some of the stuff you submitted on trigger point release that I had not known, but we have been doing with light massage in our own ignorance. I know that some docs will inject something into the "point" but I've found that to be ineffective. For me, I think it's the movement of the fluids, while releasing the point, as well as benefitting the surrounding areas with the movement, and the fact that we do it almost every day. The pain and trigger points and even myofascial trouble areas change every few days. What was true this week, was not last week.

When you are hurt, and most of your hours are spent at work, and you didn't hurt yourself outside of work, then you probably have a work comp injury that requires you get full treatment to cure or RELIEVE the injury, as well as permanent disability and whatever else to help you. If work is dragging their feet - or docs - on helping you, and TOS does get very bad very fast if you're working and they are not treating you - then you need to get a FREE consultation from at least one work comp expert lawyer as work comp is not a do it yourself job. There are too many factors to consider when you're sick like this, and you don't know for sure where it's headed, so take a look at my post on "Looking at the big picture" and see if maybe it is time for you to build a team to protect and help you.

God bless you.

Yes my injury is from work, and they have been wonderful to me through all of this. My appointment with the specialists again gave me no indication on what i need to do. the throbbin pain apparently i will have to live with and continue with my stretching to relieve some of the pain going through my mucles. They havnt mentioned to me about TOS or nothing, and i am really confused, if this is not the case then why am i in so much pain by the end of the day and when i wake up. Its affecting me to the point that im aggitated and very depressed and honestly its starting to affect my work and the biggest area my home life with my kids and husband. Its not fair to them at all, but i hurt all the time and i dont know what to do. And work...i love what i do, but i can not seem to focus, and little mistakes are startin to happen. i need to control this and fast or im gonna loose everything.

I hate to say this but I feel I should, just so you have a heads up.

When wc or employer decide you might possibly have a chronic condition , or if you don't start to heal & recover in a timely fashion - the wc ins & employer might not be so nice to you. So be aware of that and try not to share too much of any injury/claim info with anyone else.
Some will even act like they are really caring but they might be fishing for info to trip you up later.

My supervisor , HR lady, lead persons were all great until I took too long to recover and even when I finally did recover to almost normal they put me back to full work and it was not long before I was injured again. HR lady was the worst.
On top of that the IME Dr actually said I was malingering in his report.
But all of my performance reviews proved that was not the case - I was competitive and often beat the speed & quality quotas.

They probably won't even mention TOS to you or at all- unless you can get to a very good Dr.
It may be called something else by the drs or PTs. Seems most don't really know or aren't knowledgeable enough about TOS to even say" might be" it.


Work will add to the pain every day - it's like an over drawn bank account.
you can help to add back by doing these things -

stopping the hurtful movements /finding a easier way to do them
doing gentle stretches as often as possible
do opposite positions - like if you work with arms forward hold arm to the back for a few times - same with head forward - lean head back etc - all of those will help offset the bad postures but must do them hourly at least if not more often.
just plain rest & relax as much as you can
lay out on the floor or bed with arms to the sides palm up - slowly work arms out from the body - {stop if painful or symptoms increase}

Use subtracts from this "bank" account & rest, stretches, relaxing , deep {belly} breathing help to build it up.

I can't recall if you have an atty on your side yet..
With TOS or even a similar condition - a good atty is a very good idea.
It's not a do it your self claim.

A atty i take it means a attorney right, and no i dont, i honestly have no clue where i should go from here. Like i said i went to see the specialists that WSIB has sent me to before and all the said was it seems i am coping well. i have my range back to the point that i can raise my arms to full potenttial, with some discomfort but it can be done. so my guess is to them it is probably over with. except my right arm has suffered from the slack of my left, lucky me. I cant even bend that elbow straight. i seem to be going from one to the other