Originally Posted by tshadow

Dear Tracy,

I hardly ever post, and hardly ever peek in, due to high pain, but I couldn't pass over your post.

Your symptoms came on VERY simlarly to mine, except I didn't have a specific fall, I just had hours on a computer, working files and doing administrative work.

Now, despite your "fall" that you describe, your job duties could have caused TOS or exacerbated what might of just healed, so you MUST, MUST see a work comp attorney and talk to someone FOR FREE about UPPER EXTREMITY REPETITIVE INJURY TO YOUR right arm or wherever it is. Why? Because this can be a lifelong injury that needs permanent, temporary disabilility, medical help, I even had daily nurse. And USUALLY this is a work caused injury unless you have a specific rib poking the nerves, veins, etc. You'll learn all of the specifics, but just don't throw out a possible case despite having quit in ignorance of your rights.

I was a work comp defense attorney, I know that most states will sustain a case despite having quit in ignorance of your rights given the correct factual legal and medical pattern. Only an attorney (or two) will be able to tell you ifyou have this.

Next, I'll post what took me a long time to learn about testing for TOS. I think you might have neurogenic TOS and vascular TOS a little "off", but then, most docs don't know it after med school! (Vascular is a seen vein blockage while neuro describes the rest, pretty much, is an easy explanation without going into ALL of the particulars.)

God bless you.

Originally Posted by tshadow

Dear Tracy,

I hardly ever post, and hardly ever peek in, due to high pain, but I couldn't pass over your post.

Your symptoms came on VERY simlarly to mine, except I didn't have a specific fall, I just had hours on a computer, working files and doing administrative work.

Now, despite your "fall" that you describe, your job duties could have caused TOS or exacerbated what might of just healed, so you MUST, MUST see a work comp attorney and talk to someone FOR FREE about UPPER EXTREMITY REPETITIVE INJURY TO YOUR right arm or wherever it is. Why? Because this can be a lifelong injury that needs permanent, temporary disabilility, medical help, I even had daily nurse. And USUALLY this is a work caused injury unless you have a specific rib poking the nerves, veins, etc. You'll learn all of the specifics, but just don't throw out a possible case despite having quit in ignorance of your rights.

I was a work comp defense attorney, I know that most states will sustain a case despite having quit in ignorance of your rights given the correct factual legal and medical pattern. Only an attorney (or two) will be able to tell you ifyou have this.

Next, I'll post what took me a long time to learn about testing for TOS. I think you might have neurogenic TOS and vascular TOS a little "off", but then, most docs don't know it after med school! (Vascular is a seen vein blockage while neuro describes the rest, pretty much, is an easy explanation without going into ALL of the particulars.)

God bless you.

Originally Posted by Jo55

That's interesting- at least you have some possible indication of some anomalies that could be a cause. Might be something to investigate and get clarification on.

Also if different radiologists/techs read the MRIs - then one was more precise than the other - and did the dr look at both sets of films and show you the films while explaining these findings?
{they shouldn't only go by the tech report - they should look at the films too}

oh I see- dr did not explain it..
I'd get the films {or copies of them} and find a good second opinion dr to read them.

Originally Posted by Jo55

I hope some of the ones that have been to the Denver docs will chime in.

I'm wondering if any of Denver drs would look at your films and a clear listing of all your symptoms and give their impression ??
- even though you are out of the country. I'm sure they would prefer to see you in person though - more hands on type of thing.

Originally Posted by tshadow

TOS is a diagnosis when ALL other testing does not show an obvious orthopedic or other reason for all of your symptoms. TOS is a diagnosis when you have ruled out all other problems, because if you do not do the foundational TOS to rule these out, then you might have missed an obvious tumor, etc., but it does not mean that TOS is merely what you call it when you are done with testing. Testing is extremely important. Normal results in all, can still conclude TOS, if the proper symptoms are present. There is no single, one-shot test for TOS. You can't usually "see" it.

I am not a doctor, and this description of tests is just "laymens' terms."

1. You should have ruled out any rheumatological or immunological conditions by seeing a rheumatologist and having these blood tests run. Sometimes they will run a brain MRI.

2. Neuro / ortho / vascular doctors do MRIs of the neck, brachial plexus, shoulder, hand, etc., looking for any obstruction or strucural abnormality. These MRIs can be run with fluid, and may or may not have your arms in differing positions. Mostly, these are for finding any arterial or vein blockages.

3. Xrays are also ordered of the spine, usually in the beginning, and a few TOSers will have additional cervical ribs, but many do not. "Extra cervical ribs" or "protruding cervical ribs", etc., are the terms to listen for.

4. Neuro docs do EMGs and nerve testing, including SSEPs, each one believing that only their way is the right way. Usually, it is not always going to show anything. You want to ask if they test up by the neck for the C-8, because if this is slow, the C-8, it tends to show TOS rather than cervical radiculopathy.

5. Doppler tests are like sonograms of the arm to see if there are any blockages of blood flow. You can have neurogenic TOS and still have vascular / circulation type symptoms, but these may not show up on this test. Blockages must be treated usually by surgeries, ASAP.

6. MRAs or MRIs with fluid can involve cut-downs along the arm to track blood flow or in an I.V., as you sit or stand. In my case, my nerves were wrapped around my double veins, so we were unable to cut-down all the way up.

7. 3d MRAs and C.Ts. give another vision. CTs have very high radiation, and should not be repeated except for good reason. MRAs by Dr. Collins and Dr. Brantigan are considered the best and shows different angles of the brachial plexus at such a high resolution that doctor is able to "see" compressions, impingements, etc. However, most of us do not get this luxury. (I think the cost is $10,000 right now and some insurance cover.)

8. Scalene block - if you feel relief for a brief period of time, this is the MOST positive for surgery.

9. Thyroid issues - many TOSers are hypothyroid. Some show up easily on a blood test. Others, are not shown on a blood test. Some are called "Hashimoto's thyroid" such as mine. Mine were based upon symptoms, rather than numbers on a blood test. They incuded: dry hair, or slow growing hair, depression with no real situation or depression that has gone on a long time, nails that don't grow or are brittle, dry or flakey skin, sleeping 10 or 12 hours or a whole weekend like I was and still tired, not being able to sleep at night, tired when forced to wake up, (once I started the thyroid, I slept from 11 AM to 7 AM without problem), slow bowels, like not moving for a week, (not really weight gain or weight loss, though, this wasn't about being fat, but about not good body metabolism.) So anyways, this is a subject for you and your doc.

If all of these tests come out basically normal, this leads to discussion of TOS as the culprit. It is especially hard to tell the difference between cervical ortho causes and TOS, and sometimes shoulder and TOS. But you must go through time-consuming testing to find out all of the results, because if you simply proceed with an ortho surgery, your TOS pain can go through the roof and you can have unexpected complications, so it's rather serious to proceed now with great caution, whereas the work comp ortho surgeons love to "cut and run!"

We have a ton of articles post on the upper left hand corner.

There are also a couple of “usual” conditions which go hand-in-hand with TOS; they include R.S.D. or C.R.P.S., fibromyalgia and autonomic neuropathy, as well as treatment for depression to handle the differing phases of ones’ life if TOS is determined to be present.

We also have listed some of our docs we have seen, on the upper left hand corner. In my opinion, most doctors ho say they know TOS can NOT diagnose TOS, and I went through over 10 orthos / neuros / vascular surgeons who did not diagnose me, and it wasn't until I flew to Denver and saw Dr. Annest that I got a diagnosis, and then most of these docs said "oh, that's what I thought, too, but didn't want to be the one to make the diagnosis."

Pain control is another big fight.

Be very wary of chiropractors who say they can "cure" TOS. Do NOT do any physical therapy or treatment that hurts you, or tries to strengthen you. TOSers (for the most part) cannot do strengthening exercises, cuz that causes swelling, which is already a problem.

The best physical therapy that I know of is the "Edgelow" system, he is listed in our doctors list in Berkeley CA. Many P/Ts do his system. You can get it via mail, too.

Getting a FREE work comp consultation is of the highest importance because if one considers what one does the most, it is usually working. Unless you KNOW your TOS was caused by an accident, or impinging rib that has been bothering you since birth, and if you have a good work history, as you try to figure out how you got TOS, even if you are not yet get diagnosed, you must cover your bases by filing a work comp claim form after a good free consultation. Were you in an accident to the collar bone area? Or, were you doing a job that had a lot of repetitive hand / arm movements over an extended period of time? IF you can't say why you got TOS and you're working, presume it caused the TOS, and make sure to get an attorney consult and proceed with a claim. Do not wait, no doctor will take care of this aspect for you. The onus is on you to pursue your work comp benefits, which, sometimes TOS is 100% disabling condition.

If you are sick or going to be sick through one year, you should also have a free Social Security consult and follow through with those filings.

I also suggest that after six months of absence from work, sending a certified mail receipt requested letter demanding identifications of any / all benefits for anyone disabled fully or partially from your company and to take any response to a licensed disability or insurance attorney.
Copyright 02-08

P.S. symptoms can change and/or move over time - I mean nerve pain. So when it is really bad, have faith that it will go into another cycle of not so bad, so you can survive.