I was a vegitarian while preggers and beyond, and ate mucho soy. Though I also consumed eggs/milk/cheese.

Very interesting discussion, thanks.

I really take some issue with those scary statements about babies exposed
to estrogen from soy.

You are aware that both sexes are exposed to hormones in the womb.
Male babies have large genitalia and often can even have small breasts when
delivered. This typically resolves with time.

If babies were exposed to the level of estrogen stated in those articles--we'd SEE the effects.
Now isoflavones are very very weak estrogens, thousands of times weaker than the estrogens used in birth control pills.
So these statements are confusing and alarming without backup data, on cause/effect. Just about every living thing has estrogenic compounds in it...plants use these estrogenic related compounds as antioxidants. I recall reading an article in Science News not too long ago that estrogens are in mulloscs (snails). Babies who are breastfed get minute amounts of human hormones as well.

We would SEE the effects on the genitalia of those babies..and I have not seen articles to that effect.
However, if a female fetus is exposed to birth control pills, there can be damage to the developing genitalia of that child.. this is known.

Here is an interesting article on xenoestrogens in the environment...and I think these are much more alarming.
http://www.coem.com/conference-details.asp?confid=18
It is postulated that the increase of early menarche (in some areas in girls 8yrs old) is due to xenoestrogen and estrogen in meat exposures.

I still think we are not receiving accurate data on this topic. And it has been 10 years of controversy sadly.

interesting info mrsD ..........thanks for adding good balance to the controversy.

Thanks Mrs. D.

I agree on this .... Here is an interesting article on xenoestrogens in the environment...and I think these are much more alarming.

I read an interesting article related to our conversation, that speaks about many environmental substances: New Thinking on Neurodevelopment

Snip...

The notion that some substances in the environment can damage the nervous system has an ancient history. The neurotoxicity of lead was recognized more than 2,000 years ago by the Greek physician Dioscerides, who wrote, “Lead makes the mind give way.” In the intervening millennia many other substances have been added to the list of known or suspected neurotoxicants. Despite this accumulation of knowledge, there is still much that isn’t understood about how neurotoxicants affect the developing brain, especially the effects of low-dose exposures. Today researchers are taking a hard look at low-dose exposures in utero and during childhood to unravel some of the mysteries of impaired neurodevelopment.

LINK

I highly recommend it, it's an interesting read.

That is a great article, Laurensmom.

You are right, I did find it interesting. I don't want to say "enjoy" since that
implies pleasure...and learning about these things is pretty scary, not pleasurable. But necessary.

I am going to save that link! Thanks, so much!

yes...very informative link.
thanks Laurensmom

I had no idea this was being discussed here!

I only have a minute, but quickly reading thru this thread, I wanted to add a little.

The effects of soy on fertility, was not my main focus, althought disturibing.

This was the study that I thought any Mom considering using soy, to feed an infant, should be aware of.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3Doff%26sa%3DX


National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
10 January 2006
NIEHS PR #06-02 NIEHS Contact:
Robin Mackar
919.541.0073


Component in Soy Products Causes Reproductive Problems in Laboratory Mice
Genistein, a major component of soy, was found to disrupt the development of the ovaries in newborn female mice that were given the product. This study adds to a growing body of literature demonstrating the potentially adverse consequences of genistein on the reproductive system.

Similar article
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3Doff%26sa%3DX


The NIEHS researchers previously showed that mice given genistein immediately after birth had irregular menstrual cycles, problems with ovulation, and problems with fertility as they reached adulthood. The new study looks at the direct effects of genistein on the ovaries during early development.

My bigger concern, that you all have touched on is the content of manganese, the effects on zinc, the amount of aluminum ingested (with the increased blood brain barrier and intestinal tract permeability in an infant) along with the content in infant vaccinations.

I hope you all will add any comments that you may have on this article. This was not included in the soy thread on latitudes.

I know its hard to extrapolate info on the levels of manganese used in these young pigs, to infants and the use of soy, but I thought the interplay btwn manganese and magnesium was highlighted well here.

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/130/8/2032

Although manganese (Mn) is an essential component of several enzymes involved in carbohydrate, lipid and protein metabolism, it also is a toxic element (Khan et al. 1997 ). Acute Mn toxicity in humans is characterized by a crippling neurological disorder resembling Parkinson’s disease in humans (Chandra et al. 1974 , Cotzias 1958 ). Although Mn toxicity also has been reported in animals (Grummer et al. 1950 , Khan et al. 1997 ), Leibholz et al. (1962) fed growing swine 72.8 mmol Mn/kg diet without mortality or severe morbidity. Grummer et al. (1950) fed growing swine up to 9.1 mmol Mn/kg diet and observed "retarded appetite and growth especially during the latter part of the trial," but no deaths. However, Grummer et al. (1950) did speculate that Mn may cause some symptoms of toxicity at concentrations between 0.91 and 1.82 mmol Mn/kg diet.

AND

There are several possible points of interaction between Mn and Mg. The body can replace Mn with Mg with similar efficiency in Mn-activated proteins (Wapnir 1990 ). Similarly, Mn can occupy Mg allosteric sites in Mg-activated proteins, such as the sarcoplasmic reticulum calcium ATPase (Chiesi and Inesi 1981 ). Mn-supplemented diets increased Mg excretion through the urine in rats (Gaillard et al. 1996 ), and Mg deficiency increased the Mn absorption and retention in rats (Sanchez-Morito et al. 1999 ). Scheuhammer and Cherian (1983) reported that Mn decreases Mg concentrations in both heart and bone by an undefined mechanism. Sanchez-Morito et al. (1999) found that feeding rats a diet deficient in Mg decreased urinary and fecal Mn excretion. They also observed greater Mn retention in skeletal muscle, heart and kidney in Mg-deficient rats as compared to control.

AND

In conclusion, these data suggest that Mn exacerbates Mg deficiency and is responsible for a decrease in heart muscle Mg concentrations. This reduction of Mg concentrations in the heart may therefore be a contributing factor in the deaths observed in pigs fed high Mn.