Traumatic Brain Injury and Post Concussion Syndrome For traumatic brain injury (TBI) and post concussion syndrome (PCS).

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Old 06-04-2010, 04:36 AM #1
Mark in Idaho Mark in Idaho is offline
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T97tab,

Your experience is very common. The basic neurological test will rarely show any problems. The neurologist likely did not do a complete neuro assessment. They often fail to do the MMSE (Mini Mental State Exam) to evaluate his cognitive issues. The MRI will also be a waste of time. A better evaluation would be with a neuro-psychologist. Taking the ImPACT test or CNS Vitals Signs test can also tell you a bit about his condition.

Without a baseline, the tests can only be compared to others his age. They can be taken online then the results forwarded to the specialist of your choice. Google ImPACT test and look for a practitioner in your area to send the results to.

The upper cervical chiropractor can help. The whiplash can effect the cervical nerves that effect lots of functions.

Do not be surprised if you can not find a medical doctor with a good understanding of concussion.

You might want to be careful about getting worthless consults. If he gets too many comments of 'somatoform' or 'malingering' in his medical record, doctors will dismiss his symptoms even further.

As other said, concussion symptoms can manifest many days later. Up to six weeks is not uncommon. The brain tries to recover. At some point, it self diagnoses the cells that are damaged. It then sends out a suicide signal, Some think this is done with tRNA (transmitting RNA). The malfunctioning cells will die and be absorbed by the body.

Studies have shown that initial serious damage will not show up on a CT Scan until the third day or so. It is rare for a CT to be administered at day three so imaging of the concussion is rare.

Unless you are near a high Tesla MRI clinic like Chicago or Portland and a few other places, you will just be wasting you time and money. You need at 6 Tesla or higher resolution to image concussion damage. If he has a sudden onset of severe head pain, the normal 1.5 Tesla MRI or CT Scan will be adequate to show a brain bleed. This is unlikely at this time for him.

He needs to be extremely careful to avoid any risk of a second impact for at least three months. After than, he should still not play contact sports or engage in risky activities.

IMPORTANT,

Go to www.tbiguide.com and download Dr Glen Johnson's TBI Survival Guide. Print it out. It is the best explanation of what is happening to your son. Have the whole family read it.

If he is still attending school, he will likely need help with test taking. He will need more time and a quiet environment. He may also do better with an oral exam. I need to use a blank sheet of paper to cover the text above and below the problem I am trying to answer. Otherwise, my mind will try to mix up the questions.

Tell him he is not alone. Many have gone before him.

My best to you.
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Old 06-04-2010, 07:19 AM #2
t97tab t97tab is offline
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Default Thank you

I appreciate your responses more than you can know. As I stated, witnessing the event, knowing my son (well adjusted, happy, strong student), and reading so much on the internet about PCS has floored me as to this doctor's response and dismissal.

His balance is so off that he is unable to stand, much less walk, unassissted. I don't mean just a little...he cannot stand up straight and sways like crazy. The neuro "tests" this doctor did contradicted this.
Has anyone else heard of balance problems this severe?

The doctor did not test his vision issues. He turned out the room lights and looked into the back of his eyes. Yet, my son cannot read due to the letters being scrambled.

Your responses have been the first "help" we have been able to locate and I am holding on to them like a lifeline. Thank YOU!
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:38 AM #3
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possibly some vertebral artery symptoms??
from misalignments or even muscle spasms?
I had all of these at the worst of my work injury.

[VERTEBRAL ARTERY

DIZZINESS, LIGHTHEADNESS

VERTIGO, SYNCOPE

DIPLOPIA, DYSARTHRIA, DYSPHONIA, DYSPHAGIA

TINNITUS, EAR PAIN]
the info above is from a thoracic outlet syndrome website - http://www.tos-syndrome.com/old1/newpage12.htm
but you can find more on vertebral artery symptoms with a web search
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:27 AM #4
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First I'd find another neurologist;
Second, I'd find an ear,nose & throat doctor who specializes in vestibular issues.
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:04 PM #5
Mark in Idaho Mark in Idaho is offline
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I second the recommendation of an ENT. Or you might take him to a hearing and balance clinic (hearing aid clinic). Sometimes, the non-MD will have a better understanding. Many MD's are so quick to jump to conclusions.

The vertebral artery issue is an interesting suggestion. I have suspected a vertebral artery problem in my neck but have not been able to get any help from the doctors.

Jo*mar, what kind of specialist did you see to resolve you vertebral artery issues?

I have a good PT who helps with my TOS but not the brain blood flow. I get tingling on the left side of my head. It seems to coincide with a pressure (inflammation) at my left occipital condyle.
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:17 PM #6
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PCSLearner,

I remember those days of running into door jambs and the corners of walls, many shoulder bruises.

Then my neuro prescribed too much phenobarbital and it got worse. I would try to turn as I walked and my body would keep going the same direction even though I had turned my body. I would end up stumbling along until I could get my orientation back.

My mind wanted to change direction but my body did not want to follow.

Now, this is a rare occurrence.

... No officer, I am not drunk. I did not have any alcohol.....

I almost failed a roadside sobriety test once. I could not keep track of my steps (supposed to take ten), track the sidewalk crack, and turn around without looking like a klutz.

The cop was just taking a statistical shot on Christmas day evening. Who would not have some alcohol in their system at 9:00 at night. Not me, I have PCS and the doctor said to not consume alcohol.

To make matters worse, I have a bit of horizontal gaze nystagmus in my left eye.

Good thing there is no DWPCS. Driving With Post Concussion Syndrome.
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:53 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Idaho View Post
The vertebral artery issue is an interesting suggestion. I have suspected a vertebral artery problem in my neck but have not been able to get any help from the doctors.

Jo*mar, what kind of specialist did you see to resolve you vertebral artery issues?

Mostly it was my chiropractor, getting me back into alignment {the C1/C2 also} and he treated the spasms/ sore muscles/ imbalances and trigger points that were the cause for me.

I also did Sharon Butlers TOS program stretches and took some ideas from PT sessions that seemed to help.

My concussion was 30+ yrs ago so it only played a part with the misalignments - the work injury was the main cause of all those weird symptoms - they faded away as the worst of the injury began to heal.
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Old 06-05-2010, 10:14 AM #8
t97tab t97tab is offline
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Default vestibular system

Is it possible for a child to "pass" all the coordination/reflex tests and still have severe balance/vertigo issues? (Vestibular Disorder)

Anyone dealt with this? I am still trying to understand.
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Old 06-07-2010, 07:21 PM #9
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Yes, I think it is possible for someone to "pass" those tests and still have a vestibular issue because sometimes those symptoms seem to come and go with specific movements, etc. That's why you want a tilt table test...I think.
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Old 06-23-2010, 08:07 AM #10
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Default Thank you all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Idaho View Post
I second the recommendation of an ENT. Or you might take him to a hearing and balance clinic (hearing aid clinic). Sometimes, the non-MD will have a better understanding. Many MD's are so quick to jump to conclusions.

The vertebral artery issue is an interesting suggestion. I have suspected a vertebral artery problem in my neck but have not been able to get any help from the doctors.

Jo*mar, what kind of specialist did you see to resolve you vertebral artery issues?

I have a good PT who helps with my TOS but not the brain blood flow. I get tingling on the left side of my head. It seems to coincide with a pressure (inflammation) at my left occipital condyle.
This board is such a tremendous support and source of valuable information!! Thank you all!

My son was suffering from unexplained (according to the neurologist), severe vertigo and had blurred vision. He could not read due to the letters on a page being disorganized and "jumping" around the page. He had a constant headache and cognitive issues. Despite having slammed his head onto turf in a soccer incident, the neurologist wrote off his injury claiming that it was "all in his head"!

I researched upper cervical chiropractors after it was suggested by a couple of people on this board. I found a NUCCA chiropractor who immediately demonstrated real concern and compassion for my son. (Incredibly appreciated after what we experienced at the neurologist's office.) Approximately, an hour after the first realignment (xrays and physical tests indicated a relatively significant misalignment of the skull/first vertebrae) my son's blurred vision cleared. He was treated every day for five days and we saw remarkable improvement that very first week. The chiropractor even came in to the office on his day off to treat my son. (We definately did not see that kind of concern from the medical community.) It is now two weeks after we started with the chiropractor and my son is symptom-free with the exception of a few cognitive issues!!

The chiropractor explained how a misalignment of the cervical vertebrae can put pressure on the brainstem resulting in all kinds of neurological issues.

Despite the mechanism of injury, never once did anyone in the medical community suggest that there could have been any neck trauma that should be evaluated. In fact, one MD discouraged me from even consulting a chiropractor.

I truly believe that it was the chiropractor's intervention, along with time, that is bringing my son back to complete health.
Thank you all!!!
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