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-   Traumatic Brain Injury and Post Concussion Syndrome (https://www.neurotalk.org/traumatic-brain-injury-and-post-concussion-syndrome/)
-   -   A list of ways to beat PCS (https://www.neurotalk.org/traumatic-brain-injury-and-post-concussion-syndrome/152877-list-beat-pcs.html)

Klaus 07-02-2011 10:14 AM

I think my most recent setback could have been mitigated by greater neck strength and body bulk - I was charged into from behind and there was no contact with my head but I got a sort of minor whiplash from the impact (unfortunately the effects haven't been minor). If my neck and body were stronger I think less of that energy would have been transferred to my head.

On the other hand I can see it working the opposite way - if you are bigger and have a stronger neck it might stop your body from moving with the head if it gets banged, thus letting your brain impact on the inside of the skull.

I was having a chat with the brother of a guy who's done a lot of research on concussion in amateur boxing (including at olympic level). The main focus of his findings are that a headguard makes concussion more rather than less likely since it supports the neck and stops the head from moving when it is struck, leading to the brain impacting on the inside of the skull with more force. Apparently he's fighting a losing battle in trying to get rid of headguards.

All I've learned that is helping me is to respect my symptoms, and to take it easy even when they seem to have gone away - my first setback came from a symptom-free week after which I felt safe to get drunk - BIG mistake. I'm trying to do nutrition and all that but can't really tell if it's helping. Rest and activity which doesn't bring symptoms on definitely does help though, just not as fast as I'd like.

My symptoms are telling me to get off this puter now - bye and good luck!

greenfrog 07-02-2011 10:35 AM

Tons of physical and mental rest (gauge how much you think you need, then add even more)

Good nutrition every day (at every meal if possible)

Lots of water

Supplements: fish oil from reputable manufacturer (possibly in a high dose), good multivitamin (with strong B component), vitamin D3

Dark, quiet room to recover in

Minimal stimulation (TV, reading, internet, email, conversations, noise, chaotic environment, etc)

Large support network (family, friends, knowledgable health professionals), to the extent this is feasible - ask for help if others are receptive and willing to provide it

Light activity / exercise only if it doesn't trigger symptoms

Don't skip meals

Practice meditation or listen to music - or find some other way to relax and de-stress, even for 5-10 mins at a time

Minimize stress, to the extent this is possible

Take lots of naps, even short non-sleeping ones

Read relevant sections in Brainlash, Coping with Mild Traumatic Brain Injury, Mindstorms, or other credible sources for additional knowledge and support

Patience

Mark in Idaho 07-02-2011 11:04 AM

My concern about the 'neck strengthening" hypothesis is that is can cause a false and dangerous sense of security. I highly respect Dr Robert Cantu. He has been at the forefront of concussion issues for quite some time. He and the others are still researching this "hypothesis."

Unfortunately, Dr Cantu, in his comment "It's just straight physics. If you see the blow coming and you have a very strong neck and contract the neck muscles, you have a much greater chance to have significantly reduced the forces the brain will see." is dead wrong about the physics.

As I said before, When you change how the head and neck absorb or react to the impact, all you have done is change the way the impact force is transmitted into the skull in the aspect of whether a coup contra-coup injury will be caused and the timing of the shock wave. Whether the shock wave differences reduce the injury or increase the injury will be based on a myriad of other factors. The most important factor is whether the helmet has an ability to deform, thus absorbing some of the energy. Otherwise, helmets are most useful at preventing broken skulls, not impacted brains.

I understand the desire and focus on reducing the risk of concussions but neck strengthening is not going to change this risk. The multiple concussions received in contact sports will continue until there is a radical change in how the head is or isn't subjected to impact forces.

A simple way to understand this is with vehicle collisions. In the 60's, cars were built with stout bumpers and frames. They reduced damage to the vehicle but transmitted higher forces to the occupants. The rebounding bumpers of the 70's and 80's absorbed some of the energy but the spring back of the rebound bumpers caused a secondary force against the occupants.

The current crash worthiness technology depends on a progression of collapse of 1st, the body panels, next, the sub-structure, then the frame. All of these structures are "destroyed" as they protect the passenger compartment from the g forces that can be so damaging.

Bicycle helmets use a similar process. The semi-hard foam is broken or deformed thus absorbing the impact forces over a longer period of time.

Force = mass x acceleration. Acceleration is a measure of change in motion over a specific period of time. If the impacting force from the opposing player stays the same, the only thing that can be changed by the impacted player is the amount of time in the acceleration formula.

Contrary to Dr Cantu's claim. The impacted player can diffuse the energy by reacting with a change in his own movement to try to match the impending movement of the impacting force. If he is pulling his head/helmet back as the impacting player is impacting his helmet, the differential at time of impact will be less. This will reduce the injuring forces.

Last example. Lay a piece of glass on a hard flat surface so it can not move at all when impacted. Then hit is with a rigid object. Even though the glass does not move, the shock wave from the impact will still break the glass. If the glass can move just a bit, it will be more likely to just crack. If it is held firm, it will more likely shatter. The difference is just the timing of the impact force and shock wave.

So, get a helmet that absorbs the impact on the outside layer to reduce brain forces.

Soccer players will strengthen their necks for better abilities to head the ball. These players will still suffer the statistical loss of 9 to 10% of their IQ level from heading the ball.

The Law of Physics is call "Conservation of Energy." Energy can neither be lost nor gained. The energy of the impact is just transmitted through the body parts.

'Nuff said.

confuused905 07-02-2011 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klaus (Post 783207)
I think my most recent setback could have been mitigated by greater neck strength and body bulk - I was charged into from behind and there was no contact with my head but I got a sort of minor whiplash from the impact (unfortunately the effects haven't been minor). If my neck and body were stronger I think less of that energy would have been transferred to my head.

On the other hand I can see it working the opposite way - if you are bigger and have a stronger neck it might stop your body from moving with the head if it gets banged, thus letting your brain impact on the inside of the skull.

I was having a chat with the brother of a guy who's done a lot of research on concussion in amateur boxing (including at olympic level). The main focus of his findings are that a headguard makes concussion more rather than less likely since it supports the neck and stops the head from moving when it is struck, leading to the brain impacting on the inside of the skull with more force. Apparently he's fighting a losing battle in trying to get rid of headguards.

All I've learned that is helping me is to respect my symptoms, and to take it easy even when they seem to have gone away - my first setback came from a symptom-free week after which I felt safe to get drunk - BIG mistake. I'm trying to do nutrition and all that but can't really tell if it's helping. Rest and activity which doesn't bring symptoms on definitely does help though, just not as fast as I'd like.

My symptoms are telling me to get off this puter now - bye and good luck!

klaus why would a headguard lead to an increase in concussions if it stops the head from moving when its struck? if the head doesn't move when its struck, then the brain won't move either.

Klaus 07-02-2011 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by confuused905 (Post 783228)
klaus why would a headguard lead to an increase in concussions if it stops the head from moving when its struck? if the head doesn't move when its struck, then the brain won't move either.

Wearing a headguard in boxing won't stop your head from moving at all when struck, your head will still jerk back if you get hit with a good punch, obviously.

The theory apparently is that since the headguards they use offer some sort of support to the neck, they slow the head's movement down more quickly after the initial jerk. Whilst the skull's movement suddenly stops, the brain keeps moving and crashes into the inside of it, like a person not wearing their seatbelt carries on moving into the dashboard during a car crash.

If the person is not wearing a headguard, the skull slows down at more like the same speed as the brain, thus causing less of an impact of the brain onto the inside of the skull.

What we really need is a headguard that can fit in between the brain and the skull!

So it would seem from my understanding that if any of us sorry lot are planning to enter a boxing match we should not wear a headguard, lol

Eowyn 07-02-2011 02:34 PM

I do also take 2000 units of Vitamin D3, though I took it as a general measure even before my concussion. Is it helpful for concussion in some way?

amazinggrace 07-02-2011 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark in Idaho (Post 783227)
My concern about the 'neck strengthening" hypothesis is that is can cause a false and dangerous sense of security. I highly respect Dr Robert Cantu. He has been at the forefront of concussion issues for quite some time. He and the others are still researching this "hypothesis."

Unfortunately, Dr Cantu, in his comment "It's just straight physics. If you see the blow coming and you have a very strong neck and contract the neck muscles, you have a much greater chance to have significantly reduced the forces the brain will see." is dead wrong about the physics.

As I said before, When you change how the head and neck absorb or react to the impact, all you have done is change the way the impact force is transmitted into the skull in the aspect of whether a coup contra-coup injury will be caused and the timing of the shock wave. Whether the shock wave differences reduce the injury or increase the injury will be based on a myriad of other factors. The most important factor is whether the helmet has an ability to deform, thus absorbing some of the energy. Otherwise, helmets are most useful at preventing broken skulls, not impacted brains.

I understand the desire and focus on reducing the risk of concussions but neck strengthening is not going to change this risk. The multiple concussions received in contact sports will continue until there is a radical change in how the head is or isn't subjected to impact forces.

A simple way to understand this is with vehicle collisions. In the 60's, cars were built with stout bumpers and frames. They reduced damage to the vehicle but transmitted higher forces to the occupants. The rebounding bumpers of the 70's and 80's absorbed some of the energy but the spring back of the rebound bumpers caused a secondary force against the occupants.

The current crash worthiness technology depends on a progression of collapse of 1st, the body panels, next, the sub-structure, then the frame. All of these structures are "destroyed" as they protect the passenger compartment from the g forces that can be so damaging.

Bicycle helmets use a similar process. The semi-hard foam is broken or deformed thus absorbing the impact forces over a longer period of time.

Force = mass x acceleration. Acceleration is a measure of change in motion over a specific period of time. If the impacting force from the opposing player stays the same, the only thing that can be changed by the impacted player is the amount of time in the acceleration formula.

Contrary to Dr Cantu's claim. The impacted player can diffuse the energy by reacting with a change in his own movement to try to match the impending movement of the impacting force. If he is pulling his head/helmet back as the impacting player is impacting his helmet, the differential at time of impact will be less. This will reduce the injuring forces.

Last example. Lay a piece of glass on a hard flat surface so it can not move at all when impacted. Then hit is with a rigid object. Even though the glass does not move, the shock wave from the impact will still break the glass. If the glass can move just a bit, it will be more likely to just crack. If it is held firm, it will more likely shatter. The difference is just the timing of the impact force and shock wave.

So, get a helmet that absorbs the impact on the outside layer to reduce brain forces.

Soccer players will strengthen their necks for better abilities to head the ball. These players will still suffer the statistical loss of 9 to 10% of their IQ level from heading the ball.

The Law of Physics is call "Conservation of Energy." Energy can neither be lost nor gained. The energy of the impact is just transmitted through the body parts.

'Nuff said.

If having a stronger neck does not help prevent concussions, then how come seat belts reduce the severity of brain injuries?

***

greenfrog 07-02-2011 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eowyn (Post 783280)
I do also take 2000 units of Vitamin D3, though I took it as a general measure even before my concussion. Is it helpful for concussion in some way?

I've been taking vitamin D3 on my naturopath and therapist's advice. I haven't read anything about its effect specifically on concussion recovery. Nor am I sure how conclusive the research is on the health benefits of D3 - I tend to be skeptical of the latest fads in vitamins and supplements. However, there seems to be some suggestion that it may be helpful for mood / cognition / brain function (see below - random links culled from the web).

http://www.livestrong.com/article/22...its-vitamin-d/

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...e-a-difference

http://www.dana.org/news/cerebrum/detail.aspx?id=20980

EsthersDoll 07-04-2011 05:29 PM

I've been getting acupuncture on my skull. My acupuncturist hooks up little electrical things to the needles and it's supposed to send a very minimal current through the brain. He puts the needles on points of the skull where my brain needs improvement. He read a lot about this, he's a personal friend of mine, and he says the electrical stimulation will reduce the amount of time the brain would normally take to heal.

He also gives me needles at points to help increase my energy level because I've been dealing with a lot of fatigue caused by the injury.

He also recommended PSP Phosphatidylserine and CDP Choline as supplements to take in addition to the ones everyone should already be taking: minerals, vitamins, omega acids (3, 6 and 9) that need to be refrigerated because the fresh omega acids work better than ones that don't and a good B complex.

Even my neurologist recommended the B vitamin complex, but she thinks it works better taken as an injection on a weekly basis - which I am unable to do so far because I haven't found anyone to administer it for me yet.

My boyfriend bought me a year's subscription to lumosity so I can play their games every day and I am a firm believer that their brain training games have been helping me get better as well.

I try to take a walk every day if I can.

I eat as healthy as possible and drink lots of water.

I'm doing much better than I was!! July 28 will be the one year anniversary of the accident I was in and I am going back to work part time on August 1. :)

Mark in Idaho 07-04-2011 07:17 PM

Seat belts reduce brain injuries by preventing the head from hitting the windshield. With a seat belt on, the head stops moving over a much greater distance, say 12 to 24 inches. When the head hits the windshield or dashboard, it stops rather quickly in 2 to 6 inches depending on how far into the windshield the head penetrates.

G forces and their impact on the brain depend on how quickly the skull stops moving or starts moving. When an object causes the sudden change in movement, the key factor is the amount of distortion of the impacting object and/or helmet.

If you were to look at the slow motion replay of a hit to the head, you might observe the head bouncing back off the surface or impacting object. A springy helmet lining could cause such a rebound. A fall to concrete could cause a bounce or could be absorbed by a deformation of the skull. Oddly enough, a little skull deformation or even fracture can greatly reduce the imp[act forces on the brain. The deformed area will likely have a focal injury but there will be less G force transmitted to the rest of the brain.

So, there are many factors that come into play when the head is accelerated or decelerated rapidly. There is often a rotational force involved, too. This rotational or twisting force impacts the brain against the many boney protuberances inside the skull. There can be bruising at the outer edges where the brain hits these boney protuberances. There can be shearing or tearing in the center of the brain as the brain twists against the central brain structures.

The only way to reduce brain damage is to create a system of padding or such to allow for the impact forces to be spread over a longer period of time which usually means more distortion at the moment of impact.

Estersdoll,

Vit B-12 is not absorbed orally for some people. There are sub-lingual drops that can be helpful. My wife takes them. The Lumosity has not shown to help with recovery but it is useful at improving brain skills that can help overcome other PCS symptoms by having stronger functions in other areas.

Think of it this way. You can try lifting something with your back by going from hunched over to erect. This can injure the back in many ways. This injured back can still do work if the person learns to lift with their legs. By keeping their weak back straight and balanced under the load, the legs do the lifting.

The brain is amazing at how it can use other undamaged functions to overcome weak or damaged functions. For me, Lumosity and Posit Science did not do any good because the functions they are designed to improve are already at near maximum levels of function.

Most people do not have highly developed observation skills such as those exercised by Lumosity and Posit Science. Improving these skills acts like a work-around as the brain learns new skills and neural pathways for doing functions that have been weakened by the concussion.

For example, I used to have a photographic memory. Not anymore. When I do the exercises that require remembering the location of a target, I can not be successful if I try to visualize the location of the target. Instead, I convert the image into a description. If the target is at 9:00 midway toward the edge of the field of view, I mentally say the textual description as " mid 9 o'clock" or some such similar description.

I learned this system driving. I can no longer remember what I just saw as I look to the left at a stop sign. By the time I have looked to the right, the left image is gone. So, instead, I say to myself, "clear on the left" as I look to the right. When "clear on the left" matches with a visual of 'clear on the right,' I can proceed.

If you have a hole in the pants pocket you habitually use but those pants have two pockets, you train your brain to use the other pocket.

Are you guys getting the idea?


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