Brown,

I don't know of anywhere my PCS journey is chronicled other than my head. It surely has been interesting.

Feel free to pm anything if you wish. I'm not a wealth of information such as Mark and the others who have been here awhile but I am 22 months down the road now.

Bud

Some people think their poor sleep before their concussion is just continuing after a concussion and since it was not a big deal before, it still isn't. But, once you have a concussion, your brain gets flooded with toxins. Poor sleep restricts how the brain can flush out those toxins. The brain purges these toxins during slow wave sleep. This was discovered in 2012. People with PCS or TBI need to have full cycle sleep, especially REM cycle and slow wave cycle.

REM cycle for the neurorepair. Slow wave for flushing the toxins.

REM is also needed for consolidating short term memories into long term. Without long term memories, many get confused and frustrated about day to day life. This can contribute to anxiety. Lack of sleep contributes to many PCS symptoms. Medicated sleep does not accomplish what proper quality sleep does.

I just heard this in a presentation by a neurorehab sleep specialist who follows the latest research and greatest minds in sleep and neurorehab.

Mark! That's right, I've just been reading about some of that stuff . . believe it or not, I've known for decades about the role of REM sleep in consolidation. . it's a fascinating topic. Is your incredible journey posted somewhere in more detail? Lemme know.

Bud! What does pm mean?

Yes, sleep is crucial for recovery which is why sleep problems are so frustrating! I used to sleep a consistent 7/8 hours before my injury so I know it's not a continuation of bad sleep. Sleep patterns can be altered through concussion, it can affect the circadian rhythm and REM sleep. We will go into REM sleep much sooner than normal. No one knows the reason for this, but eventually it will pass.

@brownehn pm means send a private message through the forum ;-) Click on Bud's name and choose send private message.

The value of slow wave sleep in flushing the brain of toxins was discovered when they discovered the glymph system in 2012 that is that drain for flushing the toxins. During slow wave sleep, the neurons shrink 40% in size. That space allows the glymph system to dilate or open up allowing the toxins to flow to the cerebral spinal fluid to be expelled. The glymph system is a very fine sheath over the vascular structure that opens up to a minute level to allow flow. Doctors and researchers had been looking for this drain system for decades.

Mark, how much is known about how blood flow overall to the brain is controlled. Actually it sounds like this glymph system is involved. Why is it that immediately after trauma, blood flow into the brain is reduced?

I've never seen anything that suggest blood flow to the brain is reduced after a concussion. It non-blood oriented intracranial pressure goes up, blood will not flow as freely. Blood flows under pressure. Glymph flow does not have a pressurized mechanism. In the brain, there is a vast valve like network that directs blood flow to where it is needed more. After a concussion, this brain blood flow can get dysfunctional because this blood flow regulating system can malfunction. They do not know why this happens.

I wonder if the bigger problem is this need to flush the toxins out. Many cellular systems need a proper exchange and emptying before new nutrients can enter. Oxygen is a simple on. Oxygen and CO2 exchange places on blood cells so cells can function. When one gets CO (carbon monoxide) poisoning, the CO gets stuck on the hemoglobin so that oxygen cannot properly swap places with it.

If the glymph system is not functioning and allowing toxins to exit the cells, there is no room for the fresh nutrients to enter the cells. It's like a full elevator car. You cannot get on until someone gets off.

So, if one is not getting proper sleep with all the stages, there is no opportunity for the cells to drain off the toxins.

I'm finally managing to get 6 to 6 1/2 hours of sleep these days (2 1/2 yrs post). Initially, I was lucky to get 2-3 hours.

I'm taking 400mg magnesium & 5-HTP (200 mg 2x/day). Over the months, it has had a positive influence on my sleeping. I've never had a problem falling asleep, it's staying asleep that is the issue.

Unfortunately, my headaches are worse again the past 2 weeks and my depression increasing as every time I push myself to do something social, the noise is too stimulating for me & my head is ready to explode.

Just found out about some nasal injections used for headache & hope my concussion doc will do this for me on Wednesday. Any one tried this yet?


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Mark, so actually blood flow WITHIN the brain IS disrupted. I think I read somewhere that this lasts about 4 weeks. I believe they refer to this valve-like control as autoregulation. Good area for further research . .

I'll bet there isn't anything definite, but have there been any studies on sleep of PCS people? I would guess they vary all over the map.

Your comment was about blood flow being reduced. My comment was about blood flow being disrupted. It can flow too much or too little due to this disruption. I've never seen anything about 4 weeks of disruption. Anecdotal evidence says it varies widely. Every brain injury is different.

The glymph system is a passive system from what they can tell. It does not control anything. It functions when the sleep cycle allows slow wave sleep.

They know that people with brain injuries have disruptions to their normal sleep process. They know this impacts the brain's ability to recover. They have discovered a need for them to be disciplined to re-establish proper sleep processes. What else would need to be known ?

My point was that they know that getting the full range of sleep stages is important to recovery.