When I said Kangan water has the same rate of success as craniosacral therapy I was trying to not influence the success rate of either.

The studies show that both have a success rate just about the same as a placebo. If I was going to pay for a therapy to get the "placebo effect", I would choose the least expensive. One of the values in the placebo effect is the not knowing the science or lack thereof and thus being able to use the belief system of the body to help with the healing.

The only other alternative therapy that has been mentioned in this forum has been the light therapy. It was suggested to me back in 2000. It does not work by placebo effect. It actually causes neurological changes. The jury is still out on the long term effects of light therapy. It is best suited for PTSD and less suited for concussion injuries. Some are concerned that it may have long term side effects like ECT, Electro-Convulsive Therapy (Shock treatments).

Some of us, especially the older persons, have to be careful about treatments that attempt to modify the brain. Brains that are over 40 years old have very little resiliency compared to brains of 20-somethings.

So your argument is "nothing works, so do whatever costs the least", right?

Honestly Mark, let's drop the cynicism a bit here. I tried many many physical therapy modalities that provided me with no notable results before I moved on to craniosacral work, so you can rest assured that the changes I experienced fell well outside the range of a placebo effect. Maybe craniosacral wouldn't do much for you, but it has done a whole hell of a lot of good for a whole hell of a lot of people, myself included. I would appreciate it if you didn't completely blow off that fact.

Meghan: Try whatever you want. If craniosacral work (or accupuncture, or light therapy, or a pill, or a vitamin, or chiropractic, or a diet change, or whatever else) makes you feel better, then stick with it. If it doesn't, then try something else. Just follow your heart on this stuff - if it feels right to you, then do it. If it doesn't, then don't. That's the best advise I can possibly provide.

Alright Mark, I've got an additional clarification for you as well as a question. First, the clarification:

I believe that you're lumping in the light therapy that I did with a more common form of light therapy, EMDR. This is an (for lack of a better word) inappropriate comparison, as the light therapy that I did is nothing like EMDR in the slightest. In fact, it even says so right on the (admittedly poorly designed) website. Really, the only similarities between the two are that both are aimed at resolving trauma and both use lights to accomplish that goal. The types of lights that are used and the manner in which those lights are used is completely different, as are the intended results.

Personally, I would not recommend EMDR to anyone on this board unless they can find an EXTREMELY careful EMDR therapist. While EMDR can be effective in helping those dealing with psychological trauma, it can also easily overwhelm a vulnerable psyche (taking the problem from bad to worse). It is not at all uncommon to see people become re-traumatized from an overly aggressive session of EMDR therapy, and yes, I've heard of a risk of relapse with EMDR as well, though I really don't know enough about it to comment on that aspect of the therapy. While EMDR is one of the most effective forms of widely accepted PTSD therapy out there (noting the fact that there are barely any PTSD therapies available that could be called "widely accepted"), it's my opinion that there are far more effective therapies emerging at this time. The light therapy I did would be one of those.

Now, onto my question:

You claim that both craniosacral therapy and alkalized water produce the same placebo-level effects in clinical trials, but I'm wondering what objective measures were used to derive these rates of success. Allow me to elaborate:

Basically every single person on this board has the same story. "I hit my head, I have felt awful ever since. I have had every test in the book done on me, but doctors cannot find anything wrong with me. My life is hell, what do I do?"

Now let's say that one of these people with this common story goes to see a craniosacral therapist and a couple of months later all of the symptoms that they've been struggling with suddenly vanish. They "feel like themselves again." In the eyes of objective medical tests, what has that craniosacral therapy accomplished?

I suspect the clinical answer is "nothing." Absolutely nothing. Since the doctors were never able to locate an objective measure to define the patient's state of health, the work has netted no positive gains outside of some anecdotal evidence from the patient (and as we all know, patients can't be trusted to comment on their own condition).

What is obvious to me is that, especially in reference to the brain, modern medicine's ability to diagnose deficiencies, abnormalities, and damage in the body is woefully inadequate. There is no objective measure for "I feel like ****", nor is there a measure for a statement as nebulous as "I just don't feel like myself."

So here's my question again: How do these clinical trials account for these shortcomings in modern diagnostics?

I will be earnestly interested to hear your response.

Lighten up PCSMcGee.
I was not referring to EMDR. EMDR is even less researched the the light therapy you refer to. SYNTONIC PHOTOTHERAPY has been around for decades but has had a recent resurgence. Dr Tessler's therapy sure sounds like SYNTONIC PHOTOTHERAPY. No it is not EMDR.
I did not mention the reason I compared craniosacral therapy to Knagan water as both placebo initially because to get the max effect from a placebo, the patient needs to not know it is a placebo. Read the scientific studies. There is no difference. The researchers state that the placebo value validates the use of the therapy as long as the cost is acceptable.
Your own comments make my case. Unless you have had any of the reliable diagnostic tests, your recover is just anecdotal. If SYNTONIC PHOTOTHERAPY worked for you and you could afford it, good. If not, you wasted a bunch of money. Head injury survivors end up with limited resources due to being denied by so many doctors. We need to be careful about therapy expenses.
You say you tried many physical therapy modalities and got no relief. That is understandable and common. Most physical therapist are "jacks of all trades and masters of none." I have had three neuro-psych exams. Even thought the scores of the tests say I have an organic brain injury, all three try to say I have a psychological causation to my dysfunctions. They are so sure of their diagnosis that they hide the scores of the tests that contradict their diagnosis. One even reverses the scoring scale to justify his position.
EMDR is a dangerous concept in my mind. It appears that it was developed by someone who saw some value in SYNTONIC PHOTOTHERAPY but wanted to add his own psychotherapy (talk) to the mix. The vagarities of talk therapy itself can be dangerous.
Some people are very responsive to placebo. Those same people are often more reactive to other symptoms. Not that their reactions are "thought up." But rather that their whole body system reacts differently than the others. It is the same with hypnotherapy. It works wonders for many and is useless for others. It does not make either group better or worse than the other. They are just different.
I attended a brain injury support group for the first time last night. The caregivers' small group leader (trained professional) emphasized the need for the injured party and his caregivers to accept the injuries as real and react as if they are permanent. Then as they learn to change behaviors to accommodate their symptoms and dysfunctions, they lower the stress in their lives and healing happens faster. If they no longer need to use the work-arounds and accommodations, great. In not, they have learned skills that will benefit them for years to come.
Demanding a quick-fix is unreasonable.

Your hypothetical situation with cranio-sacral therapy is common in many areas of therapy. The cranio-sacral therapy may do something physiological or not. It also may provide a compassionate care system that over time allows the patient to heal. Take arthroscopic knee surgery. I have had it three times. Only one time did they find a tear. The prior two times they did not find the tear but my knee was much better after. The orthopedist explained it this way. The prior surgeries required that I rest my knee for a few weeks because it just would not function at full strength until it recovered from the trauma from the surgery. During this time, the inflammation response of my body and the rest the knee received allowed the body to focus healing a resting knee. Did the surgery accomplish nothing? Clinically no. In reality, yes. The knee was better until it got overworked years later.
The simple fact that the patient usually knows that the therapy (cranio-sacral or Kangan water or ???) will take time to effect healing causes the patient to rest and wait for healing. Is this a placebo effect or is it an actual healing from the resting? We do not know. The valid point is that things got better.
The same goes for accepting your symptoms and learning to accommodate them. As you relax and rest, healing has a better chance.

Are you understanding my point? Brain injury does not have any quick fixes nor 100% fixes. Get used to it. When you do, you will feel better.

Oh, and I disagree with your claim that EMDR is the most widely accepted form of effective PTSD therapy. It is accepted by those who know how to make money using it. It was not commonly used in the VA system until after 2004. It has only been promoted by the EMDR HAP association. It is still being researched by the VA. Some claim it is no better than CBT. Oddly enough, it often included CBT, so how would you tell if the EMDR addon is working. It got a push when it finally got accepted by the psychiatric association. That usually means they got it a CPT code so they can get paid by insurance companies, not much else.

You ask about how they measure success rates for cranio-sacral or Kangan therapy. Many of these therapies are done long before the more expensive diagnostic tests. Qeeg and neuro-psych cost $2,000 and up. And all they do is confirm a problem. Many choose to try a therapy first. If it works, great. If not, you try the next most affordable therapy. This is how modern MEDICINE works. Notice, many of todays ailments are first treated with a drug. It is usually just a "try this" concept. It is usually not a "Take this, it will solve the problem." I like how they call medicine a practice. They keep trying until they get it right.. or the patient goes away.

So, what diagnostic test have you had? You can be specific if you want.Since I have had to spend a small fortune of my own hard earned money in my search for answers, I probably know what they are.

My mistake, most people aren't familiar with the concept of syntonics. The therapy I did actually isn't the same as syntonics, but to lump the two together wouldn't be any great injustice. They are founded on very similar philosophies.

As far as the rest of your points are concerned, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. The effects I experienced from craniosacral work were not slow developing and nebulous, they were immediate and unmistakable. For me, there was no "I wonder if this is working" with craniosacral work. It couldn't have been more obvious.

This was my experience. I would not expect that everyone with PCS would have the exact same experience, but I would expect that some people with PCS would have a similar experience, so I would recommend at least trying it to people who are looking for therapies that might aid or expedite their healing process. Did craniosacral work completely resolve every bad thing going on in my body? No, but it exorcised a big fat chunk of them. For that, I'm extremely grateful.

Dear Poster,
That is an awesome idea, if I had any sort of scientific mind, I would want to do the same thing. The most promising thing that I have read anywhere is a study being done by a certain college which I can't remember.
Anyways, the study is trying to prove that PCS patients can improve if they are put on a very slow progression increasing their exercise from nothing to normal life again. It is a very slow progression and it must be supervised so that the patient does not progress too slowly and so that they continue despite headaches and such.
I am trying this in my own way, and I do feel better whenever I have a certain amount of excercise in my life, but if it is too "bouncy" then I just get worse, walking for 2 hours a day was my routine during the school year and then I slowly tried doing other things, some of those things set me back, but others gave me new opportunities. I have found that only sleep and quiet help my headaches in the long run, but sleep and college don't go together, so instead I just go really hard for a while then get sick and spend three days in bed then do it all over again. I guess I will just have to keep it up for another six years because I am planning on earning two Bachelors degrees, one in Liberal Arts and the second in Nursing.
I would also warn that I have read and heard many times that pain killers, in the long run, actually make the headaches worse and you just have to keep taking more and more as time goes on.
The thing I found most comforting was having a couple close friends who I told exactly how I was feeling at all times and were kind enough to take my problems into consideration. Knowing that not everyone thinks I am crazy and not everyone thinks I am milking it, is very nice. But I warn that it is very waring on the friends and family. In many ways, I think it is better to pretend that I am all better and just more reclusive than to have them worrying that something is really wrong and that the docs are just incompetent.
Well, I need to sleep.
TTFN
Margarite

PS: I know Mark disagrees about the pain killers, but I have personal experience and I have read and heard of many, many other cases of this.

Margarite,

The situation you are referring to with pain killers is called "rebound head ache" or Medication overuse headaches (MOH). They are due to constant use of pain killers. Some will use painkillers constantly and even over dose slightly in the constant use of the pain killers. This is a common risk of persistent migraines.

Taking pain killers only when the pain exceeds a certain level with time off the painkiller is considered safe.

My headaches tend to be in clusters. I can go days without a head ache but then have a week with daily head aches. I use Tylenol or Tylenol/aspirin in combination for these on again off again head aches.

Some will find ibuprofen (Advil/Motrin) helps or naproxen sodium (Aleve). Ibuprofen is contra-indicated if one takes an SSRI or SNRI.

There is great value to learning to rest or relax to reduce the severity of a head ache. Every body/brain is different and responds to pain/painkillers differently.

I don't presume to have the answer for any individual's head aches. I have a friend whose headaches/migraines often do not respond to anything. He ends up in the ER or such from the nausea and dehydration.

keep in mind that overdoing it so that one needs bed rest delays recovery according to some researchers. I went through this cycle myself. i would work hard, get into miserable condition, sleep for most of a week or two, get better and repeat. I did not imp[rove until I slowed down and let the recovery last.

But you mileage may vary.

Getting a bachelor's degree finished is worth some sacrifices. A BRN or RN-B is not an easy course to complete. Your efforts are commendable.

The slow progression concept is a valuable way to work through PCS. It is based on the concept that exercise is good but overdoing it is counterproductive. So, if one can be disciplined to stay within the comfort level with exercise but slowly continue to stretch that comfort level, one can see improvement.

PCSMcgee was referring to cranial sacral therapy that as a whole is based on bad science. There are individual bits of benefit received from some CST work, specifically the spinal massage/manipulation. The cranial plate therapy is very controversial and without scientific basis. Spinal massage/manipulation can be a result of CST, regular physical therapy, chiropractic, and upper cervical chiropractic.

I have benefited from spinal massage/manipulation form both a chiropractor and PT. I usually experience a slight increase in head ache immediately then a over-all reduction in head ache intensity a day later or so.

My best to you.

Dear Mark,
Thank you for your replies.
My headaches are constant there is not a single day and almost not an hour without a headache. So, for the PCS people like me, meds are not OK.
I have heard of the advil/tylonel approach, that it is an almost instant cure for pain of a certain degree. I only wish my headaches were a constant level of pain so that I could cope with them better. Instead it fluctuates with the wind.
Well, time to go. Good luck all!
TTFN
Margarite

Meghan: I seem to have become a poster child (wait...make that the mother of a poster child) for vision therapy.

According to our vision therapist something like 65% of the connections in your brain relate to vision. Many people have undetected vision issues following head injury. My daughter just completed the 4th of 12 visits so its a bit too soon to tell if it will provide anything you might consider to be an "effective treatment". We are so very hopeful.

I can verify, however, that in hindsight (no pun intended) it is apparent that her issues since about the sixth month seem to have been very much tied in with her vision. You can research this through the NORA website. This is more complex than a 20/20 eye chart. This has to do with the "ambient vision system", i.e. how you perceive mid-line, peripheral vision, using the two eyes together, etc. Problems with the "ambient vision system" can result in panic attacks, vertigo, headaches, nausea, etc.

We have also dabbled in reflexology (sort of like a foot rub but more complex) and accupressure...honestly those two seem to work better than any kind of medication.

Good luck on your project!

Oops...one more thing with respect to conventional vs. complimentary pain management options.

My daughter was on Elavil for a few months. I still think it was a good choice at the time as her headaches were non-stop miserable and it did give her some relief. However, it also gave her heart palpitations which scared us all. She wanted off of it ASAP.

The withdrawal effects were INSANE, even coming off of only 10 mg. She has to be completely miserable now before she will even take a Tylenol. As I said, reflexology and accupressure have proven most beneficial. No doctors told us to try these things. We stumbled on them mostly through a book called "Brainlash". Ginger Ale is good for the nausea.

I should have also mentioned to you earlier that she is 16, 11 months post injury. Again, best of luck on your project!